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{{#seo:
|keywords=replica watch guide, replica watches, how to buy a replica watch, rep watch, reptime, chinatime
|description=The ultimate guide to replica watches. Find trusted dealers, FAQs, shipping guides and the best quality rep watches from recommended sellers.
|image=The-ultimate-guide-to-replica-watches.jpg
}}[[File:The-ultimate-guide-to-replica-watches.jpg]]
== Community Links ==
[https://www.chinatime.club/ Watch Buy/Sell/Trade Forum]


[https://www.reddit.com/r/ChinaTime/ r/ChinaTime Reddit]


== Community Links ==
[https://discord.gg/YSz4rFdV8z r/ChinaTime Discord]
 
[https://www.reddit.com/r/1688Time/ r/1688Time Reddit]


<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/ r/RepTime Reddit]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/ r/RepTime Reddit]


[https://discord.gg/rtbst r/RepTime BST Discord]
[https://discord.gg/rtbst r/RepTimeBST Discord]


[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTimeQC/ r/RepTimeQC Reddit]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTimeQC/ r/RepTimeQC Reddit]


[https://www.reddit.com/r/ChinaTime/ r/ChinaTime Reddit]
[https://www.repgeek.com/ RepGeek Forum]
 
[https://forum.replica-watch.info/ RWI Forum]
 
[https://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php RWG Forum]
 
== Watch Quality Tiers ==
{| class="wikitable"
|'''Grouping'''
|'''Tier'''
|'''Avg Price'''
|'''Example [[Watches#List of Known Watch Factories|Factories]]/Sources'''
|'''Features (not exhaustive)'''
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="2" |Shitters
|Junk
|> $70
|Unknown
|Folded tin bracelet, bad cyclops, cheap movement, incorrect print/markers
|-
|Entry
|$70-160
|'AAA', U1, GDF, TTF, TWF, SK, WWF
|Screw/pin bracelets, better quality bracelet, better cyclops, incorrect datewheel/placement, average weight. Note that AAA is not a factory, just a quality level.
|-
|Mid
|Mid
|$160-400
|BP, EWF, GMF, K11
|Improvements on above, better dial print/markers, medium quality bracelet
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="2" |High Tier
|High
|$400-800
|VSF, CLEAN, GF, PPF, 3K, ZF, GMF, R8F, BBR, RRF, OMF, AF, APS
|Closer to 1:1 quality, on NWBIG list, better bracelet quality, correct placements/markers
|-
|Epic
|$800+
|Check [[Watches#The 'Not Worth Buying In Gen' (NWBIG) Guide|NWBIG List]]
|Over the top builds, customs, excessive gems, complex reps, tourbillion, correct placements/markers
|}
== Trusted Dealers List ==
<p>This is a list of Trusted Dealers for r/RepTime tier sales and have undergone a strict process to be approved as a TD.</p>
<p>The websites & email addresses listed here are the only one to be used. Any other website found online or in a post other than from the dealer itself are not recommended. Be careful, copycat websites are one of the most common scam out there and their addresses are very similar. Do your due diligence before making any online order.</p>
<p>'''Andiot Watches'''<br>https://andiotwatches.com</p><p>'''Asian7750'''<br>[https://www.asian7750.co/ https://www.asian7750.co]</p><p>'''ChazingTime'''<br>https://chazingtime.io</p>
<p>'''Dealer Clocks'''<br>[https://dealerclocks.to/ https://dealerclocks.to]</p>
<p>'''Davidsen Watches'''<br>https://www.dsnwatches.com</p>
<p>'''Duke Jones'''<br>https://www.dukereps.com/</p>
<p>'''Geek Time'''<br>https://geektime.watch/</p>
<p>'''HontWatch'''<br>Web: http://www.hontwatch.ru/<br>WhatsApp: +86 131 1330 7655</p>
<p>'''InTime Watches'''<br>[https://www.intime06.co/ https://www.intime06.co]</p>
'''Jtime Watch Store'''<br>[https://jtime.io/ https://jtime.io]


[https://discord.gg/YSz4rFdV8z r/ChinaTime Discord]
'''Mirotime'''<br>https://mirotime.io/


[https://www.chinatime.club/ r/ChinaTime Buy/Sell/Trade Forum]</div>
'''Narikaa'''<br>https://narikaa.smugmug.com/
<p>'''Perfect Clones'''<br>https://www.pfc8388.com/</p>
<p>'''PureTime'''<br>[https://puretimewatch.io/ https://PureTimeWatch.io]</p>
<p>'''TheOneWatches'''<br>https://www.theonewatches.io/</p>
<p>'''Toro Bravo'''<br>[http://www.trb88.club/ http://www.trb88.club]</p>
<p>'''Watch Eden'''<br>[http://www.watcheden.net/ http://www.WatchEden.net]</p>
<p>'''Trusty Time'''<br>https://trustytime888.io/</p>
<p>'''Extended list:'''<br>https://forum.replica-watch.info/forums/trusted-rep-dealers.147/</p>
<p>''Last update 10/06/23''</p>


== Recommended Sellers List ==
== Recommended Sellers List ==


<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><p>Below is a list of sellers verified through the community as having a variety of content and confirmed legitimacy as a seller at r/ChinaTime tier. Their product quality will range from bottom shitter to high tier, based on your request, preferences, cost and QC approval.</p>
<p>Below is a list of sellers verified through the community as having a variety of content and confirmed legitimacy as a seller at r/ChinaTime tier. Their product quality will range from bottom shitter to high tier, based on your request, preferences, cost and QC approval.</p>
<p>These are different to a Trusted Dealer (or TD) at r/RepTime level, as these TDs go through a stringent review process</p>
<p>These are different to a Trusted Dealer (or TD) at r/RepTime level, as these TDs go through a stringent review process</p>
<p>''Last updated 5 Dec 2022.''</p>
<p>'''How to buy'''</p>
<p>'''WuWatch'''<br>Web:&nbsp;[https://wuwatch.cartel.click/ https://wuwatch.cartel.click/]<br>Dhgate: [https://www.dhgate.com/store/21178530 https://www.dhgate.com/store/21178530]<br>WeChat: WuWatch-<br>WhatsApp: +86 199 2759 6945<br>Yupoo: N/A</p>
<p>Contact your preferred Recommended Seller or Trusted Dealer with a photo/link of the watch you want.</p><p>Wait for them to reply with price & availability.</p><p>'''Sellers list'''</p>
<p>'''Duke Jones'''<br>Web: [https://www.duke-jones.com/ https://www.duke-jones.com/]<br>WeChat: pmmhq520<br>WhatsApp: +86 176 0800 5834<br>Yupoo:&nbsp;[https://p719583387.x.yupoo.com/albums https://p719583387.x.yupoo.com/albums] PW: 888888 (previously 666666)</p>
<p>'''WuWatch'''<br>Web:&nbsp;https://wuwatch.cartel.click/<br>Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/21178530<br>WeChat: WuWatch-<br>WhatsApp: +86 199 2759 6945<br>Yupoo: N/A</p>
<p>'''HontWatch'''<br>Web:&nbsp;[http://www.hontwatch.ru/ http://www.hontwatch.ru/]<br>WeChat: N/A<br>WhatsApp: +86 131 1330 7655</p>
<p>'''Duke Jones'''<br>Web: https://www.duke-jones.com/<br>WhatsApp: +852 6744 9430<br>WeChat: Dukejones888<br>Discord: dukejones_watches<br>https://p719583387.x.yupoo.com/albums PW: 888888</p>
<p>'''The One Watches'''<br>Dhgate: N/A<br>Web: [https://www.theonewatches.io/ https://www.theonewatches.io/]<br>WeChat: The5711<br>WhatsApp: +86 170 8193 4955<br>Email: Theonewatches.ru@gmail.com</p>
<p>'''Newmen Time'''<br>WeChat: HTL2018_RX_123213819<br>WhatsApp: +86 152 9889 6876 <br>Discord: newmen_rich<br>Yupoo: https://newmentimepiece.x.yupoo.com/ Pw: 213514</p>
<p>'''Jason007 '''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;[https://www.dhgate.com/store/14498114 https://www.dhgate.com/store/14498114]<br>Web:&nbsp;[https://u-onewatch.com/ https://u-onewatch.com/]<br>WeChat: N/A<br>WhatsApp: +86 159 1439 7518 & +86 137 3343 7007</p>
<p>'''The One Watches'''<br>Dhgate: N/A<br>Web: https://www.theonewatches.io/<br>WeChat: The5711<br>WhatsApp: +86 170 8193 4955<br>Email: Theonewatches.ru@gmail.com</p>
<p>'''Btime'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;[https://www.dhgate.com/store/20042879 https://www.dhgate.com/store/20042879]<br>Web:&nbsp;[https://58vakcak.com/ https://58vakcak.com/]<br>WeChat: N/A<br>WhatsApp: +86 185 8882 2256</p>
<p>'''Jason007 '''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;https://www.dhgate.com/store/14498114<br>Web:&nbsp;https://u-onewatch.com/<br>WeChat: N/A<br>WhatsApp: +86 159 1439 7518 & +86 137 3343 7007 (Aaron: +86 186 7944 2775)</p>
<p>'''Hanbelson'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;[https://www.dhgate.com/store/20777759 https://www.dhgate.com/store/20777759]<br>Yupoo:&nbsp;[https://hanbelsonwatch.x.yupoo.com/ https://hanbelsonwatch.x.yupoo.com/] PW: 2021511</p>
<p>'''Andiot Watches'''<br>WeChat: andiot2022<br>WhatsApp: +86 151 210 37121<br>Website: https://andiotwatches.com<br>Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/198214499927656/<br>Yupoo: https://andiotwatches.x.yupoo.com/albums/<br>Reddit: Andiotwatches<br>Discord: andiotwatches_88391<p>'''Time Mimic'''<br>WeChat: timemimic<br>WhatsApp: +86 156 1356 1120<br>Website: https://time-mimic.com<br>LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/timemimic<br>Reddit: timemimic1314<br>Discord: goldfish_07647<p>'''Necoclock'''<br>WeChat: necoclock<br>WhatsApp: +85 255 373 282<br>Website: https://www.necoclock.ru<p>'''Btime'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;https://www.dhgate.com/store/20042879<br>Web:&nbsp;https://58vakcak.com/<br>WeChat: N/A<br>WhatsApp: +86 185 8882 2256<p>'''Hanbelson'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;https://www.dhgate.com/store/20777759<br>Yupoo:&nbsp;https://hanbelsonwatch.x.yupoo.com/ PW: 2022930</p>
<p>'''lkwatches'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;[https://www.dhgate.com/store/19780983 https://www.dhgate.com/store/19780983]</p>
<p>'''lkwatches'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;https://www.dhgate.com/store/19780983</p>
<p>'''Stas'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;[https://www.dhgate.com/store/21229352 https://www.dhgate.com/store/21229352]</p>
<p>'''Stas'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;https://www.dhgate.com/store/21229352</p>
<p>'''Bilibili_watch'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;[https://www.dhgate.com/store/21059386 https://www.dhgate.com/store/21059386]<br>Yupoo:&nbsp;[https://zywatch.x.yupoo.com/ https://zywatch.x.yupoo.com]</p>
<p>'''Bilibili_watch'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;https://www.dhgate.com/store/21059386<br>Yupoo:&nbsp;[https://zywatch.x.yupoo.com/ https://zywatch.x.yupoo.com]</p>
<p>'''Luxurywatches 1'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;[https://www.dhgate.com/store/21113018 https://www.dhgate.com/store/21113018]<br>Yupoo:&nbsp;[https://kevin-snir.x.yupoo.com/ https://kevin-snir.x.yupoo.com/]</p>
<p>'''Luxurywatches 1'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;https://www.dhgate.com/store/21113018<br>Yupoo:&nbsp;https://kevin-snir.x.yupoo.com/</p>
<p>'''Fujimin003'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;[https://www.dhgate.com/store/20539379 https://www.dhgate.com/store/20539379]<br>Yupoo:&nbsp;[https://alan-123456.x.yupoo.com/albums https://alan-123456.x.yupoo.com/albums]</p>
<p>'''Fujimin003'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;https://www.dhgate.com/store/20539379<br>Yupoo:&nbsp;https://alan-123456.x.yupoo.com/albums</p>
<p>'''Watch GT01'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;[https://www.dhgate.com/store/21347248 https://www.dhgate.com/store/21347248]</p>
<p>'''Watch GT01'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;https://www.dhgate.com/store/21347248</p>
<p>'''Joan007'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;[https://www.dhgate.com/store/20952500 https://www.dhgate.com/store/20952500]</p>
<p>'''Joan007'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;https://www.dhgate.com/store/20952500</p>
<p>'''Hello_watch'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;[https://www.dhgate.com/store/20223682 https://www.dhgate.com/store/20223682]</p>
<p>'''Hello_watch'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;https://www.dhgate.com/store/20223682</p>
<p>'''lussoreloj'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;[https://dhgate.com/store/21441757 https://dhgate.com/store/21441757]</p>
<p>'''lussoreloj'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;https://dhgate.com/store/21441757</p>
<p>'''Mark1994'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;[https://www.dhgate.com/store/20535850 https://dhgate.com/store/20535850]</p></div>
<p>'''Mark1994'''<br>Dhgate:&nbsp;[https://www.dhgate.com/store/20535850 https://dhgate.com/store/20535850]</p>
 
== New Sellers List ==
This is a list of sellers that have been vetted and newly introduced to the community.
 
After a number of successful sales, they are moved from New Sellers to the Recommended Sellers list.
 
'''5Awatch'''<br>WeChat: enma0313 / +86 155 946 55620<br>WhatsApp: +86 155 910 76016<br>Website: https://www.5awatch.com/<br>Yupoo: https://5awatch.x.yupoo.com/
 
'''Aron Watch'''<br>WeChat: AronWatch<br>WhatsApp: +86 132 9531 376 <br>Discord: gongtk0314<br>Instagram: [https://www.instagram.com/aron_Watch1/ aron_Watch1]<br>Yupoo: https://alungwatch.x.yupoo.com/ Pw: 000000
 
'''Ada Watch'''<br>WeChat: ZengJ-Jnu<br>WhatsApp: +852 9371 8859 <br>Discord: adawatch<br>Web: https://www.awesomerolex.com<br>Yupoo: https://zhangyida9.x.yupoo.com/albums
 
'''Fashion King'''<br>WeChat: Luckyyss7<br>WhatsApp: +852 5145 1388‬ <br>Discord: .ramosmagdalena<br>Reddit: Leahbhi<br>Yupoo: https://fashionkingluxury.x.yupoo.com/
 
'''Nick Watch'''<br>WeChat: nickwatch98<br>WhatsApp: +86 199 1465 3665 <br>Reddit: <br>Discord: nickwatch<br>Dhgate: [https://www.dhgate.com/store/21874246 https://www.dhgate.m/store/21874246]
 
'''YeKing'''<br>WhatsApp: +86 158 1552 3113  <br>Reddit: r3pwatches<br>Discord: yeking._81854<br>Website: Under construction
 
'''Watchify'''<br>WeChat: wxid_2450itbyjfcs21<br>WhatsApp: +86 15022356134<br>Reddit: u/Outside_Conflict6915<br>Discord: watchify_02240<br>Website: https://watchify.top/
 
== 1688 Sellers List ==
'''Biguan''' 
 
'''***(CLOSED)***'''<br>WeChat: Lanco82234504
 
WhatsApp: +86 181 0221 7714 (Assistant)
 
Telegram ID: 8618102217714
 
'''Lin Feng'''
 
WeChat: noob88551
 
Website: <nowiki>https://weidian.com/?userid=1878165008&share_relation=987a630c94311830_1741519095_1&wfr=BuyercopyURL</nowiki>
 
'''Deloveg''':
 
WeChat: h222222288888
 
Email: 137651846@qq.com
 
Website: below in the comment.
 
'''David'''
 
Whatsapp: +86 1956 3020 400
 
WeChat: Junyou1009
 
Email: 923374261@qq.com
 
Telegram: <nowiki>https://t.me/DavidTimepieces</nowiki>
 
Website: <nowiki>https://a202108011254448300001888.szwego.com/static/index.html#/shop_detail/A202108011254448300001888</nowiki>
 
'''Watch-VS'''
 
Wechat: dou-biao
 
Whatsapp: +86 135 7016 5593
 
Website: www.watch-vs.com
 
Weidan: <nowiki>https://weidian.com/?userid=167260324&wfr=wx&ifr=itemdetail&source=home_shop&sfr=app</nowiki>
 
'''Li Li'''
 
WeChat: AZQY9988
 
Whatsapp: +86 131 4935 9680
 
Website: <nowiki>https://a201803310145220380026826.szwego.com/static/index.html#/shop_detail/_dHwqfQqy-5_nRcvVT-bG4Kl1i3iS76oW2zjbD9Q</nowiki>
 
6. '''New Times Watches - Jason'''
 
Whatsapp: +1 631 334 8593
 
Reddit: u/NewTimes_shop
 
Website: <nowiki>https://a202311092223213732001336.szwego.com/static/index.html#/shop_detail/A202311092223213732001336</nowiki>
 
'''Automan'''
 
Whatsapp: +86 173 1689 4543
 
'''Andiot'''
 
Whatsapp: +86 151 2103 7121
 
WeChat: andiot2022
 
Website: : <nowiki>https://andiotwatches.com/</nowiki>
 
Telegram: u/ElliotBlack2012
 
'''Mr Zhang'''
 
WeChat: d306009
 
<nowiki>*</nowiki>he said he can be reached on Skype, waiting for details
 
Website: <nowiki>https://detail.1688.com/offer/728746193557.html?spm=a26352.13672862.offerlist.141.737a1e62jiA1ig</nowiki>
 
'''UsdCome Watches'''
 
WeChat: 13101771592
 
Whatsapp: +8613101771592
 
Skype: usdcome
 
Email: usdcome@hotmail.com
 
'''Jade/Strangewatch'''
 
WeChat: Strangewatch (changed by the seller)
 
Whatsapp: +852 668 25090
 
Telegram: to be confirmed
 
'''S3AL-Time'''
 
Wechat: S3AL-TIME
 
Reddit: u//S3AL-TIME
 
'''Trish'''
 
Wechat: NicolasWatches
 
Whatsapp: +39 3791 785 437
 
Reddit: u/TrishYou
 
'''Heping'''
 
WeChat: wsu58999
 
'''YonXing'''
 
Telegram: @yonxingwatches
 
WeChat: yonxingwatch
 
Reddit: u/D-ConsumerGMT
 
Email: yonxing001@gmail.com
 
== Weidian Warriors Seller List ==
'''Chez Pierre''' 
 
Perfumes. The best in the industry. Discover your favourite scent by visiting below! Chez is based in Europe - ordering is usually direct to customer instead of through an agency.
 
https://chez-pierre.com/
 
'''Boring Developer (Customs)'''
 
Just a guy who does custom shoes... but very, very well. The quality on his pairs, as well as the details will impress. He's more of a very high end seller, who does customs as well as replicates actual pairs very well.
 
https://developerboring.com/
 
'''ZZZTOPXX'''
 
All the types of clothing, designer, and other bags you could imagine. Decent prices, and pretty good products. Browse around and check for yourself.
 
https://zzztop.x.yupoo.com/albums
 
'''Shark Breeder'''
 
A new seller, stocks many products with very good prices/ discounts! He's currently trying to prove himself to the foreign market, but he's got great products and will eventually grow in reputation because of his immaculate customer service.
'''1cm'''
1cm is run by a very important person in the replica scene - he's a crucial agent for a very important factory in China. This is his store with great offerings, good prices, and fantastic quality! Check him out today.
 
'''668'''
 
668 is an up and coming ambitious seller, with a lot of knowledge, and shoes! They've got great prices for great batches, and great sales as well. Hit them up!
 
'''001sports'''
 
A great new seller on the block, they’ve got great prices for all your essentials… and more. Definitely a to-go to seller if you’re looking to snag a bargain!
 
'''Cappuccino'''
 
A staple of rep buyers for a very long time, Cappuccino is well renowned in the foreign rep community and in China as well. We have probably all bought from Cappuccino and can agree that he's very solid. Very nice guy as well.
 
'''KB'''
 
A new seller within Kobe reps! They've got their own factory line, and produce batches. They specialize in production, take a look for the best looking Kobe shoes.
 
'''PAI'''
 
A new up and coming seller, PAI provides everything you need, with great service! He's one of the subreddit's to-go-to sellers, check him out below!
 
'''Harry'''
 
Harry sells many great designer shoes, at affordable prices. He's a reliable outlet for designer shoes, and can be trusted with your orders. Check him out!
 
'''3madman'''
 
3madman are well known for their high-quality products of several brands.  They focus primarily on Corteiz, Trapstar, ADWYSD, Fendi, Aime Leon Dore, Protect Ldn, Badfriend, Carpet. They have many more gems readily available, check them out now!
 
'''No. 1 in Tianjin'''
 
He's a great seller, very popular in China, and has numerous fronts from which he sells a large selection of products. He's known for his high-tier discounts, and prices on lower tier/ discounted defective pairs. Highly recommended/ vouched for by many buyers.
 
'''Sneaker King'''
 
This seller sells multiple models at great prices, and sells great pairs of sneakers. Definitely a new go-to seller if you're wanting good service, sneakers, and even some fun! Check them out below.


<br>
'''A1Top'''
 
The most popular seller in mainland China, and one of the most popular Weidian sellers on larger forums + with beginners. Good seller, however does not have a massive reputation built up in budget forums. Still, a very good seller and definetely one who has almost everything.
 
'''CSJ'''
 
Essential seller. Renowned for their shoes, have a very good reputation regarding high tier sales, and shoes. Definitely a classic seller.
 
'''7UP'''
 
Massive seller as well, although has a faltering reputation due to numerous controversies a few months ago. Has taken steps to fix this, and although there have been some mistakes, he has often done very well at satisfying his clients - so if he can put this stuff behind him, he is forgiven. In my opinion, he holds the best sales in terms of discounted defective pairs, even if they are sometimes inconsistent. He is the only seller that holds GX defective products. I would highly recommend 7UP, although several people wouldn't feel the same - those are the ones who have not been consistent customers of his for numerous years.
 
'''RG'''
 
Extremely friendly, kind, and has great sales. One of the to-go to sellers in terms of sales, and if you want very good stuff at a low price! Check them out below.
 
'''Budget Shoes'''
 
A good option for some budget sneakers, they’ve got some unique choices for buyers, including Slides that go up to very large sizes. Check them out with the links provided below!
 
'''Big Player'''
 
Has some high tier bangers at pretty decent prices, as well as very good lower tier sales. Often has a lot of discounted stuff. Renowned in China, highly recommended for sales items. He's a very nice guy as well, although I sometimes refer to him as Super Player forgetting that his name is really Big Player instead of Super Player.
 
'''GTR'''


== Trusted Dealers List ==
A seller that burst onto the scene a while ago with very good sales pieces and good discounts on higher tier batches. Very interesting person to talk to as well, and provides great products for buyers.
<p>This is a list of Trusted Dealers for r/RepTime tier sales and have undergone a strict process to be approved as a TD.</p>
<p>The websites & email addresses listed here are the only one to be used. Any other website found online or in a post other than from the dealer itself are not recommended. Be careful, copycat websites are one of the most common scam out there and their addresses are very similar. Do your due diligence before making any online order.</p>
<p>'''Asian7750'''<br></p>
[https://www.asian7750.co/ https://www.asian7750.co]


<p>'''ChazingTime'''<br></p>
'''DargonRep'''  
[https://chazingtime08.co/ https://chazingtime08.co/]
<p>'''Dealer Clocks'''<br></p>
[https://dealerclocks.to/ https://dealerclocks.to]
<p>'''Geek Time'''<br></p>
[https://geektime.watch/ https://geektime.watch/]
<p>'''HONTWATCH'''<br></p>
[http://www.hontwatch.ru/ http://www.hontwatch.ru]
<p>'''InTime Watches'''<br></p>
[https://www.intime06.co/ https://www.intime06.co]
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">
'''Jtime Watch Store'''<br>[https://jtime.io/ https://jtime.io]
<p>'''Narikaa'''<br></p>
[https://narikaa.smugmug.com/ https://narikaa.smugmug.com/]
<p>'''PureTime Watches International'''<br></p>
[https://puretimewatch.io/ https://PureTimeWatch.io]</div>
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">'''Silix'''</div>
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">[http://www.silix-prime.es/ http://www.silix-prime.es]
<p>'''TheOneWatches'''<br></p>
[https://www.theonewatches.io/ https://www.theonewatches.io/]
<p>'''Toro Bravo'''<br></p>
[http://www.trb88.club/ http://www.trb88.club]
<p>'''Watch Eden'''<br></p>
[http://www.watcheden.net/ http://www.WatchEden.net]
<p>'''Trusty Time'''<br></p>
[https://trustytimewatch88.io/ https://trustytimewatch88.io/]
<p>'''Extended list:'''</p>
[https://forum.replica-watch.info/forums/trusted-rep-dealers.147/ https://forum.replica-watch.info/forums/trusted-rep-dealers.147/]<p><br></p>
<p>''Last update 9/1/2023''</p></div>


<br>
Has a wide variety of products that suit a lot of people, very versatile style/ fun items as well! Very well known in communities for his production, and rising in reputation. Check him out!


== Introduction to r/ChinaTime ==
== Introduction to Replica Watches ==
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Welcome to&nbsp;[https://www.reddit.com/r/chinatime/ r/chinatime], a huge community of&nbsp;[https://www.reddit.com/r/ChinaTime/comments/dsru1x/we_hit_10k_members/ over twenty thousand]&nbsp;diverse people who share two things in common: The love of great-looking watches and being really fucking cheap. In most places those two things couldn’t co-exist together in the same place, but Chinatime isn’t most places; here those two things don’t just exist happily together, they are a way of life™.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Replica watches are a weird thing. People from&nbsp;[https://www.reddit.com/r/reptime/ r/reptime]&nbsp;love the word “replica” and get butt-hurt when their $400 Rolex is called “fake”. We can understand that, as those replica watches can truly be works of engineering themselves and can even be of the same quality as the pieces that inspired them. Here at Chinatime, though, we do not put on such airs. If our watches are fake-ass watches that cost less than some of my Uber trips, and that’s OK.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">We could spend a lot more money on arguably better watches that look more like the originals, but there’s something truly rewarding about tracking down a treasure on&nbsp;[https://www.aliexpress.com/ Ali Express]&nbsp;or&nbsp;[https://www.dhgate.com/ DH Gate]&nbsp;that looks&nbsp;<em class="_7s4syPYtk5hfUIjySXcRE">close enough</em>&nbsp;to the genuine article for $50 that one simply can’t be found when ordering one of the master-class Reptime watches. Sure, one day I’ll have an ARF* or Noob Submariner that would fool my Rolex rep, but for now my U1 Submariner fools my Uber driver and parole officer, and for now that’s good enough for me. Oh, it keeps good time, too, which is nice.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">(* There will not be a full glossary at the end of this piece explaining most of the terms we use in this sub to talk about our awesome reps, but explanations will be peppered throughout. “Arf” and “Noob” and “U1”, for example, are all well-respected fake watch manufacturers in China.)</p><p>'''Getting started'''</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">If you’re here to learn more about this world, then that’s great, because this interest in cheap rep watches that you have may turn into a hobby, which may then turn into an obsession. I’ve made friends on this subreddit because that’s what like-minded people do when they all become fans of the same thing, and we’re happy you’ve decided to learn more with us.</p><p>'''Automatic vs Quartz'''</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">To get started it helps to know a bit about watches themselves, besides how they look. Most of the watches we talk about in this subreddit are what are referred to “automatic” watches. Most watches in the world are quartz, but for the most part they don’t carry much weight here, because most of the watches we’re interested in the fake-versions-of are automatics, not quartz. This is because quartz watches can literally be found in vending machines, but automatic watches have a degree of engineering and craftsmanship to them, even the cheapest of them. Also, most of the Swiss shit we can’t afford are autos, as well.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">An automatic watch is simply one that is wound by the person wearing the watch simply doing their shit. There’s no battery; instead there is a rotor that is connected to the mainspring of the watch. As the wearer does whatever the fuck it is they do all day, their movement moves the rotor, which acts as a pendulum, which winds the watch, and then it tells the user what time it is so they can get home in time to catch their wife in bed with their boss. These are the important matters we deal with.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Not all the watches we deal with here are autos, but the vast majority of them are. Quartz units are generally relegated to the chronograph copies (which means “watches that are also stopwatches that you’ll never actually use”), though there are a few non-chrono quartzes peppered here and there, but not many.</p><p>'''The Rotor & Movement'''</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The rotor of an automatic watch is mounted on what’s called the movement of the watch. The movement is not the sweep of the seconds hand but rather the name for the guts of the watch itself — the gears, the springs, the cogs, and everything else that makes a watch keep time. It is arguably the most important part of a watch to consider when making buying choices, so knowing a few basics can really help you to make the right choice when it comes time to buy your first watch.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">For example, a large percentage of the watches on Chinatime will be built around a fairly generic movement called the 2813. The 2813 is a Chinese clone of the Japanese Miyota 8205/8215 movement, which is to be found in a number of Citizen brand watches, as well as high-end Invicta divers and many, many more. The Miyota is a well-respected and sturdy movement, but the 2813 clones not so much. The most famous of these clones is the DG2813, though the rest are made by several factories in China. Because of this the quality varies from movement to movements and thus watch to watch, since there’s very little in the way of quality control when the Chinese factories make our watches for us. This is part of why they’re so cheap, and really part of the fun and charm.</p><blockquote class="_28lDeogZhLGXvE95QRPeDL"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Fun fact!</strong>&nbsp;There is an ETA2813 that is an actual Swiss movement, and the Chinese 2813 (often called a2813 where “a” means “Asia”) may have started life as a clone of it, but it’s a Miyota clone now, so there we go.</p></blockquote><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">So now you know what a movement is and why it’s important, but that’s not what you’re here to find. You’re here to find some timepiece that will act as either a panty-moistener or pants-tightener when you wear it around your town/school/cellblock/institution, and most people don’t care about the movement.</p><p>'''Finding the watch you want (or ‘W2C’ aka Want To Cop/obtain)'''</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">You probably instead already have a model of watch in mind that you’d like to find a cheap rep for, and there’s a really good chance that there’s at least some Chinatime-budget version out there for you. It’s just a matter of finding it, and that is where this subreddit shines, because chances are that some other cheap fuck had the exact same idea as you, and since so many of our users share their triumphs with the rest of us there’s a good chance you’re watch is linked to in one of the posts already here. I know most subreddits have a “search it first” mantra, and that’s because that shit works, so use it.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">If your watch has been found and purchased before, and the users reported back here (which they should do, more on that later), then you can usually find in their post or comment a link to the watch they bought under the label of “W2C”, which stands for “Want to cop”, which is a weird phrase brought over from Chinatime’s big dickhead brother Reptime. Cop or w2c means to “get your hands on” and “want to” is something none of Harvey Weinstein’s victims ever said.</p><p>'''Using DHGate'''</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">So you find the watch, find the W2C link, and then you’ll be taken to a place to buy the watch. Usually that place will be DHGate, (or The Gate,) a Chinese website that’s sort of a second home for us here. That’s because The Gate has about a thousand vendors selling about a couple hundred (at least) different rep watches at a variety of price points, meaning that you’ll probably be able to find your watch there at the price you want.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">DHGate is hard to navigate for most of us because it’s a Chinese website in English and they do a very poor job of quality control when it comes to organization of products. This may be on purpose — selling fake versions of real watches violates international law, and by not making it easy to find a particular watch they get a bit of reasonable deniability when questioned by the authorities. But with some practice, patience, help from here, and luck, you’ll be able to find what you’re looking for.</p><blockquote class="_28lDeogZhLGXvE95QRPeDL"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Fun fact!</strong>&nbsp;Buying replicas of real watches for a fraction of the price is understandably illegal in most countries, so all of us here are, technically, taking part in a huge act of fraud and/or larceny, you newly-minted criminal you. The good news is that Customs in most countries are far too busy with actual problems to really care about what we do here, so don’t sweat the whole petty felony thing too much.</p></blockquote><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">So you’ve got your watch in mind, you’ve searched for the W2Cs on here and found a few, and even checked out the links on The Gate, which is awesome, because that means I’m doing a good job here. The next logical step is choosing which rep watch to get, and this is where things can get a bit tricky — not to mention sketchy.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This may surprise some of our more sensitive newcomers, but it has to be said: Not all of the vendors on sites like DHGate can be trusted! In fact, it’s best to assume that most of them are out to scam you, because it’s very easy to scam someone on the Internet from a completely different hemisphere, and it happens all the fucking time. But you don’t want it to happen to you, and neither do we, so this next part is for you: Do your fucking research.</p><p>Also, use our guide of trusted sellers.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">There are a few vendors that we like to go to again and again (more on them later) because they are simply good to work with. Some of them might be a couple bucks more expensive here and there but it’s made up for with customer service and not getting your credit card charged for $2500 in the middle of the night in Hunan Province.</p><p>'''Navigate & Communicate on the ‘Gate'''</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">It’s worth noting that in Chinese culture there is (traditionally speaking) no such thing as “customer service”. Our western notion of sales customs, where the vendor caters to the customer, is not universal, and certainly not the norm in parts of Asia. This is an important thing to keep in mind, as things don’t always go smooth, and acting like a total Karen will get your messages blocked and you’ll never get a resolution. Always be respectful (but not a sucker) and things will go a lot smoother.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">When looking over the different offerings from the different vendors, the two most important things you can do are:</p>
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Replica watches are a weird thing. People from&nbsp;[https://www.reddit.com/r/reptime/ r/reptime]&nbsp;love the word “replica” and get butt-hurt when their $400 Rolex is called “fake”. We can understand that, as those replica watches can truly be works of engineering themselves and can even be of the same quality as the pieces that inspired them.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">At Chinatime, though, we do not put on such airs. If our watches are fake-ass watches that cost less than some of my Uber trips, and that’s OK.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">We could spend a lot more money on arguably better watches that look more like the originals, but there’s something truly rewarding about tracking down a treasure on&nbsp;[https://www.aliexpress.com/ Ali Express]&nbsp;or&nbsp;[https://www.dhgate.com/ DH Gate]&nbsp;that looks&nbsp;<em class="_7s4syPYtk5hfUIjySXcRE">close enough</em>&nbsp;to the genuine article for $50 that one simply can’t be found when ordering one of the master-class Reptime watches. Sure, one day I’ll have an ARF* or Noob Submariner that would fool my Rolex rep, but for now my U1 Submariner fools my Uber driver and parole officer, and for now that’s good enough for me. Oh, it keeps good time, too, which is nice.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">'''Getting started'''</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">If you’re here to learn more about this world, then that’s great, because this interest in cheap rep watches that you have may turn into a hobby, which may then turn into an obsession. I’ve made friends on this subreddit because that’s what like-minded people do when they all become fans of the same thing, and we’re happy you’ve decided to learn more with us.</p>
<p>'''Automatic vs Quartz'''</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">To get started it helps to know a bit about watches themselves, besides how they look. Most of the watches we talk about in this subreddit are what are referred to “automatic” watches. Most watches in the world are quartz, but for the most part they don’t carry much weight here, because most of the watches we’re interested in the fake-versions-of are automatics, not quartz. This is because quartz watches can literally be found in vending machines, but automatic watches have a degree of engineering and craftsmanship to them, even the cheapest of them. Also, most of the Swiss shit we can’t afford are autos, as well.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">An automatic watch is simply one that is wound by the person wearing the watch simply doing their shit. There’s no battery; instead there is a rotor that is connected to the mainspring of the watch. As the wearer does whatever the fuck it is they do all day, their movement moves the rotor, which acts as a pendulum, which winds the watch, and then it tells the user what time it is so they can get home in time to catch their wife in bed with their boss. These are the important matters we deal with.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Not all the watches we deal with here are autos, but the vast majority of them are. Quartz units are generally relegated to the chronograph copies (which means “watches that are also stopwatches that you’ll never actually use”), though there are a few non-chrono quartzes peppered here and there, but not many.</p>
<p>'''The Rotor & Movement'''</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The rotor of an automatic watch is mounted on what’s called the movement of the watch. The movement is not the sweep of the seconds hand but rather the name for the guts of the watch itself — the gears, the springs, the cogs, and everything else that makes a watch keep time. It is arguably the most important part of a watch to consider when making buying choices, so knowing a few basics can really help you to make the right choice when it comes time to buy your first watch.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">For example, a large percentage of the watches on Chinatime will be built around a fairly generic movement called the 2813. The 2813 is a Chinese clone of the Japanese Miyota 8205/8215 movement, which is to be found in a number of Citizen brand watches, as well as high-end Invicta divers and many, many more. The Miyota is a well-respected and sturdy movement, but the 2813 clones not so much. The most famous of these clones is the DG2813, though the rest are made by several factories in China. Because of this the quality varies from movement to movements and thus watch to watch, since there’s very little in the way of quality control when the Chinese factories make our watches for us. This is part of why they’re so cheap, and really part of the fun and charm.</p>
<blockquote class="_28lDeogZhLGXvE95QRPeDL"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Fun fact!</strong>&nbsp;There is an ETA2813 that is an actual Swiss movement, and the Chinese 2813 (often called a2813 where “a” means “Asia”) may have started life as a clone of it, but it’s a Miyota clone now, so there we go.</p></blockquote>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">So now you know what a movement is and why it’s important, but that’s not what you’re here to find. You’re here to find some timepiece that will act as either a panty-moistener or pants-tightener when you wear it around your town/school/cellblock/institution, and most people don’t care about the movement.</p>
<p>'''Finding the watch you want (or ‘W2C’ aka Want To Cop/obtain)'''</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">You probably instead already have a model of watch in mind that you’d like to find a cheap rep for, and there’s a really good chance that there’s at least some Chinatime-budget version out there for you. It’s just a matter of finding it, and that is where this subreddit shines, because chances are that some other cheap fuck had the exact same idea as you, and since so many of our users share their triumphs with the rest of us there’s a good chance you’re watch is linked to in one of the posts already here. I know most subreddits have a “search it first” mantra, and that’s because that shit works, so use it.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">If your watch has been found and purchased before, and the users reported back here (which they should do, more on that later), then you can usually find in their post or comment a link to the watch they bought under the label of “W2C”, which stands for “Want to cop”, which is a weird phrase brought over from Chinatime’s big dickhead brother Reptime. Cop or w2c means to “get your hands on” and “want to” is something none of Harvey Weinstein’s victims ever said.</p>
<p>'''Using DHGate'''</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">So you find the watch, find the W2C link, and then you’ll be taken to a place to buy the watch. Usually that place will be DHGate, (or The Gate,) a Chinese website that’s sort of a second home for us here. That’s because The Gate has about a thousand vendors selling about a couple hundred (at least) different rep watches at a variety of price points, meaning that you’ll probably be able to find your watch there at the price you want.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">DHGate is hard to navigate for most of us because it’s a Chinese website in English and they do a very poor job of quality control when it comes to organization of products. This may be on purpose — selling fake versions of real watches violates international law, and by not making it easy to find a particular watch they get a bit of reasonable deniability when questioned by the authorities. But with some practice, patience, help from here, and luck, you’ll be able to find what you’re looking for.</p>
<blockquote class="_28lDeogZhLGXvE95QRPeDL"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Fun fact!</strong>&nbsp;Buying replicas of real watches for a fraction of the price is understandably illegal in most countries, so all of us here are, technically, taking part in a huge act of fraud and/or larceny, you newly-minted criminal you. The good news is that Customs in most countries are far too busy with actual problems to really care about what we do here, so don’t sweat the whole petty felony thing too much.</p></blockquote>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">So you’ve got your watch in mind, you’ve searched for the W2Cs on here and found a few, and even checked out the links on The Gate, which is awesome, because that means I’m doing a good job here. The next logical step is choosing which rep watch to get, and this is where things can get a bit tricky — not to mention sketchy.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This may surprise some of our more sensitive newcomers, but it has to be said: Not all of the vendors on sites like DHGate can be trusted! In fact, it’s best to assume that most of them are out to scam you, because it’s very easy to scam someone on the Internet from a completely different hemisphere, and it happens all the fucking time. But you don’t want it to happen to you, and neither do we, so this next part is for you: Do your fucking research.</p>
<p>Also, use our guide of trusted sellers.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">There are a few vendors that we like to go to again and again (more on them later) because they are simply good to work with. Some of them might be a couple bucks more expensive here and there but it’s made up for with customer service and not getting your credit card charged for $2500 in the middle of the night in Hunan Province.</p>
<p>'''Navigate & Communicate on the ‘Gate'''</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">It’s worth noting that in Chinese culture there is (traditionally speaking) no such thing as “customer service”. Our western notion of sales customs, where the vendor caters to the customer, is not universal, and certainly not the norm in parts of Asia. This is an important thing to keep in mind, as things don’t always go smooth, and acting like a total Karen will get your messages blocked and you’ll never get a resolution. Always be respectful (but not a sucker) and things will go a lot smoother.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">When looking over the different offerings from the different vendors, the two most important things you can do are:</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Ask us for advice, such as “has anyone else here ever dealt with ‘TittyBobbyJill20000057’?</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Ask us for advice, such as “has anyone else here ever dealt with ‘TittyBobbyJill20000057’?</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Check the customer reviews on the product you’re looking at!</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Check the customer reviews on the product you’re looking at!</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">As noted before, there are a lot of independent vendors on The Gate and the other sites, and chances are you’re not the first person looking for your particular watch, so learn from the mistakes and successes of those who came before you. Feel free to ask anyone here, and always — always! — check the customer reviews, especially if they have photos.</p><blockquote class="_28lDeogZhLGXvE95QRPeDL"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Fun fact!</strong>&nbsp;There are a few search terms you can use to find the watch you want since you generally can’t find them via their actual brand names because that just becomes blatant counterfeiting, and we can’t have that. For Omegas, search for “co-axial”; for Rolex, search for the model number; for Tag Heuer sports watches, search for “I have no taste in anything and will die alone”. Try it out yourself!</p></blockquote><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This is because very often the photos of the watch you see on the DHGate listing&nbsp;<em class="_7s4syPYtk5hfUIjySXcRE">is not a photo of the actual watch you’ll be receiving</em>. Often it’s the genuine (or “gen”) article in the photos, presumably to help shoppers find what they want. They will often have pictures of the actual units they sell mixed in, so check those, but make sure to check for photos of received units in the reviews, as these are unfiltered and unmoderated feedback directly from and to customers like you. It’s a great tool that will save everyone a lot of grief and headache if used correctly.</p><p>'''Asking for Quality Check (QC) Photos'''</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">In addition, reputable vendors are often happy to send you photos of the actual watches themselves if there are none in the reviews. Add to that the fact that we love doing our own reviews here, and you’ll be in good shape to buy the watch you want from a trusted seller and be very happy with it.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This, though, is where things get tricky. Since sites like DHGate and AliExpress are in China, not every bank or credit card vendor will work to place your order, so make sure that you have at least two different accounts to try from. In addition, keep in mind that there are sophisticated hacker-bros in China that would love nothing more than have access to a foreign credit card that works in their country easily. For my own purchases, I use my CapitalOne credit card via their Eno system which generates a one time “burner number” for each of my transactions. See if your cards or bank offer the same kind of thing if at all possible.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">If you’ve found your watch, and you’ve found your vendor, and made your purchase, then you should have your watch — sometime in the distant future.</p><p>'''Shipping from China'''</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Cheap quality watches are cheap by skimping on a few things, and one of those things is fast shipping. Most watches include free shipping, (via China’s EMS or ePacket services,) but that free shipping can take a long fucking time. It’s not uncommon for watches to take a month and a half to arrive, so if you’re in a hurry to get something for a certain event, like a court date, use one of the paid services (DHL, etc.) to get it faster. But keep in mind that you still might be in for a wait, because that’s how things in China work.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Some sellers are faster than others, and your research here should tell you which are known for fast shipments, so it’s worth taking into consideration when making your choice.</p><p>'''Customs & Replica Watches'''</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Sometimes, though, things happen, and it’s far too common for things to go wrong on the shipment part.</p><blockquote class="_28lDeogZhLGXvE95QRPeDL"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Fun fact!</strong>&nbsp;Chinese people are a lot like you, only way more broke and oppressed. The average person there makes about $15k a year. The few bucks they make off of selling fake watches to the rest of the world is real money to them, so if things go wacky don’t automatically assume that you’re being scammed, just be aware that they’ll also do anything they can to not have to issue a refund, so be willing to work with them.</p></blockquote><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">If your watch gets seized by customs then you’ll get a letter. Ignore it, tell your vendor, and they’ll generally send you a new one. This kind of thing is factored into their prices as the cost of doing business.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">If your tracking number shows your watch going somewhere far away that’s not you, there are a few reasons why this can happen. If you’re shipping with DHL you should know that they often recycle waybill numbers (I’m not kidding, it just happened to me). It’s also possible the vendor just mixed up your tracking number with someone else’s, which is also common. Or, also too common, your vendor is trying to scam you. Do not let them off the hook.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Every case is different, so we won’t attempt to tackle a “how to” on dealing with problems like this on sites like The Gate, but enough people here have been through it that they’ll be happy to help you navigate it, since we hate when those fuckers try stuff on any of us.</p><p>'''Receiving Your New Watch'''</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">So let’s say you’ve managed to not fuck up all of the above. That means that your watch has arrived and you’re stoked, and you should be! The process isn’t the easiest, but the reward is worth it.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Wear your watch. Get to know it. Maybe you’ll need to re-size the bracelet (we can help walk you through that) or something’s wrong with it (that, too), or maybe you need to brag to some people (that would be us). That is why we do ask that you share it with us. ([https://www.reddit.com/r/ChinaTime/search/?q=lume&restrict_sr=1&sort=new Don’t forget the lume shot!])</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Take photos, videos, post a review, post a W2C link, and answer any questions others may have, because you were only successful because others pass on their knowledge to you, and it would be good to show the other newcomers how it works. It’s part of what makes this subreddit more than just a place to get links and instead a place that’s genuinely fun to waste time on.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">We’re glad you’ve decided to take the morally ambiguous step towards becoming a Chinatime bro or bro-ette (for there are more rep-ladies here than one might think) and welcome you to the world of like-minded cheapskates who would still like to enjoy build quality and the classical aesthetics that go along with world class timepieces.</p><div>Written by&nbsp;[https://www.reddit.com/u/SpaceForceAwakens/ u/SpaceForceAwakens]</div></div></div></div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">As noted before, there are a lot of independent vendors on The Gate and the other sites, and chances are you’re not the first person looking for your particular watch, so learn from the mistakes and successes of those who came before you. Feel free to ask anyone here, and always — always! — check the customer reviews, especially if they have photos.</p>
<blockquote class="_28lDeogZhLGXvE95QRPeDL"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Fun fact!</strong>&nbsp;There are a few search terms you can use to find the watch you want since you generally can’t find them via their actual brand names because that just becomes blatant counterfeiting, and we can’t have that. For Omegas, search for “co-axial”; for Rolex, search for the model number; for Tag Heuer sports watches, search for “I have no taste in anything and will die alone”. Try it out yourself!</p></blockquote>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This is because very often the photos of the watch you see on the DHGate listing&nbsp;<em class="_7s4syPYtk5hfUIjySXcRE">is not a photo of the actual watch you’ll be receiving</em>. Often it’s the genuine (or “gen”) article in the photos, presumably to help shoppers find what they want. They will often have pictures of the actual units they sell mixed in, so check those, but make sure to check for photos of received units in the reviews, as these are unfiltered and unmoderated feedback directly from and to customers like you. It’s a great tool that will save everyone a lot of grief and headache if used correctly.</p>
<p>'''Asking for Quality Check (QC) Photos'''</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">In addition, reputable vendors are often happy to send you photos of the actual watches themselves if there are none in the reviews. Add to that the fact that we love doing our own reviews here, and you’ll be in good shape to buy the watch you want from a trusted seller and be very happy with it.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This, though, is where things get tricky. Since sites like DHGate and AliExpress are in China, not every bank or credit card vendor will work to place your order, so make sure that you have at least two different accounts to try from. In addition, keep in mind that there are sophisticated hacker-bros in China that would love nothing more than have access to a foreign credit card that works in their country easily. For my own purchases, I use my CapitalOne credit card via their Eno system which generates a one time “burner number” for each of my transactions. See if your cards or bank offer the same kind of thing if at all possible.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">If you’ve found your watch, and you’ve found your vendor, and made your purchase, then you should have your watch — sometime in the distant future.</p>
<p>'''Shipping from China'''</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Cheap quality watches are cheap by skimping on a few things, and one of those things is fast shipping. Most watches include free shipping, (via China’s EMS or ePacket services,) but that free shipping can take a long fucking time. It’s not uncommon for watches to take a month and a half to arrive, so if you’re in a hurry to get something for a certain event, like a court date, use one of the paid services (DHL, etc.) to get it faster. But keep in mind that you still might be in for a wait, because that’s how things in China work.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Some sellers are faster than others, and your research here should tell you which are known for fast shipments, so it’s worth taking into consideration when making your choice.</p>
<p>'''Customs & Replica Watches'''</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Sometimes, though, things happen, and it’s far too common for things to go wrong on the shipment part.</p>
<blockquote class="_28lDeogZhLGXvE95QRPeDL"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Fun fact!</strong>&nbsp;Chinese people are a lot like you, only way more broke and oppressed. The average person there makes about $15k a year. The few bucks they make off of selling fake watches to the rest of the world is real money to them, so if things go wacky don’t automatically assume that you’re being scammed, just be aware that they’ll also do anything they can to not have to issue a refund, so be willing to work with them.</p></blockquote>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">If your watch gets seized by customs then you’ll get a letter. Ignore it, tell your vendor, and they’ll generally send you a new one. This kind of thing is factored into their prices as the cost of doing business.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">If your tracking number shows your watch going somewhere far away that’s not you, there are a few reasons why this can happen. If you’re shipping with DHL you should know that they often recycle waybill numbers (I’m not kidding, it just happened to me). It’s also possible the vendor just mixed up your tracking number with someone else’s, which is also common. Or, also too common, your vendor is trying to scam you. Do not let them off the hook.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Every case is different, so we won’t attempt to tackle a “how to” on dealing with problems like this on sites like The Gate, but enough people here have been through it that they’ll be happy to help you navigate it, since we hate when those fuckers try stuff on any of us.</p>
<p>'''Receiving Your New Watch'''</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">So let’s say you’ve managed to not fuck up all of the above. That means that your watch has arrived and you’re stoked, and you should be! The process isn’t the easiest, but the reward is worth it.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Wear your watch. Get to know it. Maybe you’ll need to re-size the bracelet (we can help walk you through that) or something’s wrong with it (that, too), or maybe you need to brag to some people (that would be us). That is why we do ask that you share it with us. ([https://www.reddit.com/r/ChinaTime/search/?q=lume&restrict_sr=1&sort=new Don’t forget the lume shot!])</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Take photos, videos, post a review, post a W2C link, and answer any questions others may have, because you were only successful because others pass on their knowledge to you, and it would be good to show the other newcomers how it works. It’s part of what makes this subreddit more than just a place to get links and instead a place that’s genuinely fun to waste time on.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">We’re glad you’ve decided to take the morally ambiguous step towards becoming a Chinatime bro or bro-ette (for there are more rep-ladies here than one might think) and welcome you to the world of like-minded cheapskates who would still like to enjoy build quality and the classical aesthetics that go along with world class timepieces.</p>
<div>Written by&nbsp;[https://www.reddit.com/u/SpaceForceAwakens/ u/SpaceForceAwakens]</div></div></div></div>
 
== Step by Step Guide for Ordering a Watch ==
'''Choosing a Recommended Seller or Trusted Dealer'''
 
Recommended Sellers and Trusted Dealers are listed above.
 
Remember, TD's do not make the watches! They are simply the middle men between '''you''' and the '''Factory''' (VSF for example). Mostly, the TD's do not have physical contact with the factories or watches, they simply order them, then a courier will drop off a bulk order to them. Then the TD will issue QC photos.
 
Please do not think they walk to the factory to buy your watch and collect it, it's not how it goes. This is also how delays in QC's happen, as a TD could be waiting for a batch of a certain watch to be made, thus, delaying your QC. Some TD's will have 24 hour QC stock on hand, which you can ask for a list of. Usually however this is previously RL stock or something they have bought in bulk to offer as discounted.
 
Trusted dealers have earned their way to that status – trusted – because they have a large customer base and are willing to go through investigations through the forums that have a tough and active moderation team (RWI, RWG, etc) if a sale goes awry.
 
Trusted dealers get not a ton of dough from your sale, but they almost all offer a customs guarantee - you will receive a replacement watch for free if customs seizes it. Be nice and remember that they are doing work for you and should be compensated for that time.
 
'''2. Choosing Your Watch and/or Factory'''
 
A mid to high tier watch is built by a specific factory. Examples will be: '''CF, VSF, ZF, BP, GMF, EWF''' to name a few.
 
There are also watches that are classed as '''N'''ot '''W'''orth '''B'''uying '''I'''n '''G'''en (NWBIG).
 
All reps have tells. There is no perfect rep, so '''RESEARCH''' first and decide on which flaws you can live with.
 
'''3. Purchasing a Watch'''
 
Now that you have decided on the watch you want, it's time to buy. There are typically three ways to buy. I will list in the order I believe to be the easiest, and how to go about it. I will also give a mock example where applicable. Be aware it is always common practice to check the factory still exists and are still making the watch you require. This to a TD is referred to as "In Stock".
 
'''Option1'''. WhatsApp (or WeChat etc)
 
Find the correct WhatsApp number for your chosen TD. (The TD links have already been listed in section 1). Message the TD:
 
'''(You)''' Hi, can you source me a (VSF 116610LN) please, are they in stock at the factory still? How long for QC and how much ? Thanks.
 
Now, there are such things as time zones, so if you don't hear back from the TD in ten mins or so, consider they may be sound asleep. Allow anything up to 12 hours for a reply. Some Td's have massive inbox queues and it could take 24 hours to receive a reply during busy times. The Td will then reply for example:
 
'''(TD)''' Hi, $568 free shipping. In stock 3 day QC.
 
It's as easy as that, next you will need to issue payment (see section 4) and give your Name and Postal address. The TD may require an email address to send your QC link to, Some send the QC and deal solely on whatsapp.
 
'''Option 2.''' Purchasing via TD's website.
 
'''It is imperative you email the TD before you go this route to check the watch is still being produced. A lot of watches on websites are no longer available as they barely maintain their websites by removing old stock. It is also a great way of taking your money and getting you to switch to something else.'''
 
You'll have to make an account on the website and/or fill out your details, then, once you have checked out, the TD will contact you for payment (see Section 4). Do not upload any credit/debit card details if asked. Email is a slow process and it could take 3 days to receive payment details. Some Td's only use email, so this is one of the pitfalls of going this route, especially if you encounter a problem once you receive the watch. QC will likely take longer and in general be a slower process than whatsapp. '''You Have Been Warned!'''
 
'''Option 3.''' Direct Email/DM via forum.
 
Some TD's (Sead from supermirrors for example) are only contactable this way. They will list their current stock on their forum page. You will then have to DM or Email them your requirements the same way as mentioned in option 1. This is another reasonably slow process.
 
You can simply send a photo of a watch you are after to a TD and they will tell you if it can be sourced.
 
'''Option 4.''' Direct from DHGate
 
Platforms like DHGate have a payment facility which includes a dispute system and more. More details [https://seller.dhgate.com/html/helpfile_en/help-32.htm here].
 
'''4. Payment'''
 
Most TD's will help guide you through the payment process. Here are some of the ways you can pay.
 
'''Wise or Western Union'''
 
Easiest way?: install the respective apps or visit the official website, create an account and enter the details provided by the TD. Then issue your payment. Best exchange rate is via Wise and it is easy to use. You can even link the TD's confirmed payment via whatsapp with Wise. Guides on how to use both are on their respe websites.
 
'''Paypal F&F'''
 
Some, if not most will require previous transaction history before they dabble in Paypal with you. Some like Mirotime and Geektime usually accept payments this way first off.
 
'''Crypto'''


== Introduction to r/RepTime ==
Obviously if you pay this way you'll be sending your crypto to a TD's wallet. You'll probably have knowledge on how to use wallets etc. Be sure to record/track the transaction via the blockchain.  
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><p>Welcome to Reptime! It’s a great place to hopefully help you find what you’re looking for. There’s a lot of information and it all depends on how far down the rabbit hole you wanna go, but you can get anything from the crappy DHGate/AliExpress $30 fakes, all the way to a top tier replica for $300-700. You can even go further than how it came to you from China by “frankening” the piece – adding genuine and other modded components to help the watch achieve a look ‘even closer to gen’.</p>
<p>'''Trusted Dealers'''</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Trusted dealers have earned their way to that status – trusted – because they have a large customer base and are willing to go through investigations through the forums that have a tough and active moderation team (RWI, RWG, etc) if a sale goes awry.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">I recommend if you are going to utilize a trusted dealer (which is the ONLY way as far as I’m concerned), make sure you have an active account on the forums and post there so that the moderation team can back your order. Trusted dealers get not a ton of dough from your sale, but they almost all offer a customs guarantee – you will receive a replacement watch for free if customs seizes it. Be nice and remember that they are doing work for you and should be compensated for that time.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The trusted dealer experience works differently for each one, but for the most part, the flow is as follows:</p>
#Order (either through their website, wechat/whatsapp, or through email). They are busy. Keep your emails short and to the point. Don’t ask too many questions.
#Payment – some accept credit cards*, others primarily do crypto, Western Union, Transferwise and Moneygram. Some accept some of the more convenient services like paypal, but you typically have to be an upstanding member of the community for over a year.
#Wait for QC. This can take 2-21 days depending on availability. Typical turnaround time is 2-7 days.
#Once QC is received, these are pictures of the&nbsp;<em class="_7s4syPYtk5hfUIjySXcRE">actual</em>&nbsp;watch you will get in the mail. Make sure you check it for major defects. Don’t get too picky, remember that these are $3-400 replicas of $2k-60k watches, made by people who probably make a bit more than minimum wage in some cases. If a TD rejects a watch too many times, the factory or dealer they buy from will begin to refuse sending new watches and just offer a refund. I won’t get into how to approve QC, because you should be doing research on the model you want and what you want to look out for.
#Once you approve QC, it will take 1-5 days for the TD to send it off to their courier. You can also ship via triangle shipping, which is a higher price, but recommended for European countries.
#While in transit, the package has to make it through customs in China and customs in your country of origin. If it gets seized in your country, you will get a letter.&nbsp;<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Don’t respond to the letter ever</strong>, just send that to your TD and they will order a new one for you as part of the guarantee. If it doesn’t get seized, it typically takes&nbsp;<del>5-7 days from TD to your front door</del>&nbsp;with freight restrictions globally, expect shipping time to take anywhere from&nbsp;<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">10 days to 8 weeks</strong>.
#Enjoy the watch. Get a $20 watch service kit from Amazon or whatever and resize the bracelet.
#<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">DON’T TAKE IT TO A JEWELLER AND PRETEND IT’S THE REAL THING.</strong>&nbsp;They will lie to your face and make you think they think it’s real because its good customer service to make people feel good about themselves. They are trained to do that. Just some practical advice – take it or leave it – don’t tell your friends and loved ones that these are the real thing. It’s better to be honest. If you want to know the full reason, PM me, I’m happy to share why honesty is important.
#What if your watch is broken upon arrival? You MUST make a log in on the forums where the dealer is a trusted dealer, and post enough there in order to log a ticket to file a dispute. They will not help you if you create an account after your issue arises with a TD. It is their rules.
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">* Some have reported credit card numbers being stolen after using at TD websites. While the TDs are trusted, sometimes the agencies/companies they use to process credit card transactions aren’t trusted. They try their hardest, but there have been slip ups in the past.</p>
[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/tflxwm/intro_and_guide_to_reptime_updated_continuously/ Source]</div>


'''4. Credit/Debit card'''
I would advise against paying via credit/debit card '''UNLESS''' you are using a one time use created card number. Many CC company's will provide this. Remember you are dealing in a counterfeit organization ran predominantly (in the eyes of the law) by criminals. Your TD may be Trusted but the third party they use to take payment may not be. Don't risk being cloned or charged for other fee's.
'''5. QC (Quality Control)'''
QC photos can take anything from a matter of hours to weeks. It's all dependent on the watch you bought and if the factory are producing batches. Sometime a TD will have stock in hand. Raids, public holidays and batch times can effect the waiting times. If you haven't received QC within '''2 weeks''' ask your TD for an update. It's down to your resolve on if you want to swap to an available watch or require a refund.
Once QC photos are received you should generally get good help over at r/RepTimeQC if you follow the template used there. I would advise to look up previous posts of the watch you ordered to grasp the common QC issues that can arise. Do not be lazy and write "looks good" for everything..
'''6. Shipping'''
It can take anything from a week to 2 months to receive a package depending on where you are on the planet. 17Track is a good app to use for keeping an eye on your parcel. Most TD's have a customs seizure warranty and will replace any watch taken by customs. If this happens, do not reply to the letter you receive and contact your TD. The consensus is just wait it out, it will get there eventually.
'''7. Receipt of Package/Watch'''
# Remember you have bought a rep made in a low wage factory. The finish may have sharp edges and will need the bracelet adjusting. Buy a decent bracelet removal tool and screwdriver to undo the bracelet screws.
# Movement. Now, although replica movements have improved vastly in the past few years, you cannot expect it to be running at +/- 2 secs a day accuracy unless it has been Serviced and properly regulated! Running a non serviced replica is fine, but if its running +30secs a day fast or slow when you receive it, then it's actually acceptable. Yes, your Seiko or homage shitter may be more accurate, but it was assembled in much cleaner conditions, correctly oiled, and assembled in a gen watch factory. '''When setting dates, forward your hour hands first, so the date changes, then move to 6 o'clock.''' Now change your date. Automatic watches can be hand wound, so google "how to hand wind an automatic watch".
# Water Resistance. Assume your watch is not water resistant, and get it tested. It is your choice if you want to ride bareback into the waters.  Do check the case back for tightness and the crown is screwed in tightly. [https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/113x2ox/intro_and_guide_to_reptime_with_updated_links/ Source]
== Glossary of Common Terms ==
== Glossary of Common Terms ==


Line 221: Line 613:


Rollie: Rolex.
Rollie: Rolex.
RS or Recommended Seller: Sellers that operate (potentially) outside the TD lists created by watch forums like RWI, RWG etc. These are sellers that have been used by multiple members of the community and are safe to buy from.


ROO: A model made by Audemar Piquet, the Royal Oak Offshore.
ROO: A model made by Audemar Piquet, the Royal Oak Offshore.
Line 271: Line 665:


== Buying Replica Watches Common Q&A ==
== Buying Replica Watches Common Q&A ==
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Q:</strong>&nbsp;I see the watches on DHGate,&nbsp;[https://www.dhresource.com/0x0/f2/albu/g4/M01/BB/D4/rBVaEVniCP2AfVkLAACizCmHc_Y446.jpg but they’re missing the logos]. Will the watch I get have the logo?</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Q:</strong>&nbsp;I see the watches on DHGate,&nbsp;[https://www.dhresource.com/0x0/f2/albu/g4/M01/BB/D4/rBVaEVniCP2AfVkLAACizCmHc_Y446.jpg but they’re missing the logos]. Will the watch I get have the logo?</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">A:</strong>&nbsp;Unless otherwise stated in the listing, you bet. The reason that they don’t show the logo in most of the photos is because by not showing them then they have plausible deniability when the authorities come knocking on their door, which happens from time to time. Without the logo, they’re selling “homages”, which is fine. If a logo accidentally falls off the back of a truck and ends up on your faux Patek, then, ya know, oops and shit.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">A:</strong>&nbsp;Unless otherwise stated in the listing, you bet. The reason that they don’t show the logo in most of the photos is because by not showing them then they have plausible deniability when the authorities come knocking on their door, which happens from time to time. Without the logo, they’re selling “homages”, which is fine. If a logo accidentally falls off the back of a truck and ends up on your faux Patek, then, ya know, oops and shit.</p>
Line 296: Line 691:
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Q:</strong>&nbsp;Will I be a fraud if I walk around with a fake-ass Rolex or Patek on my wrist?</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Q:</strong>&nbsp;Will I be a fraud if I walk around with a fake-ass Rolex or Patek on my wrist?</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">A:</strong>&nbsp;Yeah, but you’ll be a dope-looking fraud, so who cares?</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">A:</strong>&nbsp;Yeah, but you’ll be a dope-looking fraud, so who cares?</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">As a general tip, keep your luxury within reason. It would make sense for a person with a half-way decent job to afford an Omega Seamaster or a Longines, but if you’re attending community college and sporting an&nbsp;[https://www.google.com/search?q=audemars+piguet+royal+oak+offshore&newwindow=1&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS833US833&sxsrf=ACYBGNThDksNjiR94YnEwXJAw82dpNQfzQ:1574931379305&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-vKLLxIzmAhVNnJ4KHfDTBqsQ_AUoAXoECDYQAw&biw=1440&bih=820&dpr=2 Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshore]&nbsp;then you’d best believe that you’re going to need a really fantastic explanation for how you got it, which may need to include a whole backstory that involves cocaine, hookers, a crime spree, an unfortunate night at a Thai brothel, cocaine, a stolen pickup, a Canadian gigalo that goes by “Mr. Mountie”, and cocaine.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">As a general tip, keep your luxury within reason. It would make sense for a person with a half-way decent job to afford an Omega Seamaster or a Longines, but if you’re attending community college and sporting an&nbsp;[[google:audemars+piguet+royal+oak+offshore&newwindow=1&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS833US833&sxsrf=ACYBGNThDksNjiR94YnEwXJAw82dpNQfzQ:1574931379305&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-vKLLxIzmAhVNnJ4KHfDTBqsQ_AUoAXoECDYQAw&biw=1440&bih=820&dpr=2|Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshore]]&nbsp;then you’d best believe that you’re going to need a really fantastic explanation for how you got it, which may need to include a whole backstory that involves cocaine, hookers, a crime spree, an unfortunate night at a Thai brothel, cocaine, a stolen pickup, a Canadian gigalo that goes by “Mr. Mountie”, and cocaine.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Q:</strong>&nbsp;Can I get a watch from China and sell it to my local pawn shop/on craiglist/to my idiot brother/anyone else?</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Q:</strong>&nbsp;Can I get a watch from China and sell it to my local pawn shop/on craiglist/to my idiot brother/anyone else?</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">A:</strong> You might be able to pass it off to someone else as the real thing to make money, but that would be a total dick move. We may be breaking international law here in ChinaTime, but we’re not fucking assholes.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">A:</strong> You might be able to pass it off to someone else as the real thing to make money, but that would be a total dick move. We may be breaking international law here in ChinaTime, but we’re not fucking assholes.</p>
Line 326: Line 721:
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iJFkFCDQ6oa7puIZ-CF18kNSdZfKTjSRa7LwnyJbJ6k/edit#gid=0 Hey look, a list!]</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iJFkFCDQ6oa7puIZ-CF18kNSdZfKTjSRa7LwnyJbJ6k/edit#gid=0 Hey look, a list!]</p>


<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix">
== Which Factories Make the Best Models ==
== Which Factories Make the Best Models ==
<p>In an attempt to help our community, many users have helped cultivate this guide.  This is only meant ''as a guide'' and all decisions about a specific model and subtle differences aren't discussed in detail here. The intent here is to help you if you're looking for a generalized consensus of "Who makes the best submariner?". As factories frequently change and close down, this list will be updated.</p>On a budget?  See the [[Watches#Guide to the Best Budget Mid-Tier Watches ($250-$400)|guide of reps $250-$400]].
==== Rolex ====
{| class="wikitable"
|'''Model Family'''
|'''Model Number'''
|'''Movement'''
|'''Best Factory'''
|'''2nd Best'''
|'''3rd Best'''
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="10" |Submariner
|126610LN, 126610LV, 126619LB
|3235 Clone
|VSF
|Clean
|ZF
|-
|
|2836 Asian
|GMF
|BP
|
|-
|Gold and two tone
|3235 Clone
|VSF
|Clean
|ZF
|-
|
|2836 Asian
|GMF
|BP
|
|-
|124060, 114060 (no date)
|3135/3235 Clone
|VSF
|Clean
|ZF
|-
|
|2836 Asian
|GMF
|BP
|
|-
|116610LN, 116610LV, 116619LB
|3135 Clone
|VSF
|Clean
|ZF
|-
|
|2836 Asian
|GMF
|BP
|
|-
|16610LN & LV
|2824 Asian
|TC v6
|RAF
|
|-
|DiW Models (of all sorts)
|Clone
|DiW Factory
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="3" |Daytona
|All Daytona Models
|4130 Clone
|Clean
|BTF
|Noob
|-
|All Gold Daytona Models
|4130 Clone
|Clean
|BTF
|Noob
|-
|DiW Daytonas
|4130 Clone
|DiW Factory/Noob
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="7" |GMT Master II
|Pepsi 126710 BLRO, 116710 BLRO
|3285/3186 Clone
|Clean
|VSF
|GMF
|-
|Batman 126710 BLNR, 116710 BLNR
|3285/3186 Clone
|Clean
|VSF
|ARF
|-
|116710LN (black)
|3186 Clone
|Clean
|C+ Factory
|
|-
|Sprite VTNR
|3285 Clone
|Clean
|GF
|GMF
|-
|Rootbeer
|3285 Clone
|Clean
|GF
|GMF
|-
|126713GRNR (Black/Grey bezel)
|3186 clone
|APF
|EWF
|OWF
|-
|DiW Models
|3186 Clone
|DiW Factory/Noob
|
|
|-
|GMT Master II (vintage)
|16710, 16750, 16700 Pepsi, etc
|3186 Clone
|BPF
|
|
|-
|GMT Master
|6542 Pepsi
|2836 Asian
|RBF (might no longer be produced)
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="3" |Explorer I
|36mm 124270, 124723 (two tone)
|3230 Clone
|GMF
|
|
|-
|
|2836 Asian
|GMF
|BPF
|
|-
|40mm 224270
|3230 Clone
|BPF
|JVS
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="2" |Explorer II
|226570 White and Black Dial
|3285 Clone
|GMF v5
|
|
|-
|216570 White and Black Dial (date window in wrong position)
|3187 Clone
|GMF
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="3" |Air-king
|116900 Black Dial
|3230 Clone
|GMF
|
|
|-
|
|2836 Asian
|GMF
|
|
|-
|126900 Black dial
|3230 Clone
|GMF
|JVSF
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="3" |Milgauss
|116400 Blue dial
|3131 Clone
|ARF
|DJF
|GMF
|-
|116400 Black Dial
|2836 Asian
|DJF
|GMF
|
|-
|Label Noir Tourbillon
|Tourbillon
|JBF
|BPF
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="7" |Yachtmaster
|226659 42mm White and Yellow Gold
|3235 Clone
|VSF
|Clean
|
|-
|116622 40mm
|3135 Clone
|VSF
|Clean
|
|-
|126622 40mm
|3235 Clone
|VSF
|Clean
|
|-
|116655 40mm
|3135 Clone
|VSF
|Clean
|
|-
|126655 40mm
|3235 Clone
|VSF
|Clean
|EWF
|-
|268622 37mm
|3135 Clone
|ARF
|
|
|-
|226627 Titanium 42mm
|3235 Clone
|EWF
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="4" |Datejust 36
|All models, best case shape, dial
|3235 Clone
|Clean
|
|
|-
|All models, best movement & crystal
|3235 Clone
|VSF
|
|
|-
|
|3135 Clone
|ARF
|
|
|-
|
|2824/2836 Asian
|GMF
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="3" |Datejust 41
|All models, best case shape
|3235 Clone
|Clean
|
|
|-
|All models, best movement & crystal
|3235 Clone
|VSF
|
|
|-
|All models, less pricey
|2824/2836 Asian
|ZF
|GMF
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="2" |DayDate
|40mm models
|2836 Asian
|GMF
|BPF
|
|-
|36mm models
|2836 Asian
|BPF
|
|
|-
|Skydweller
|All Models, low beat (21600bph)
|Custom
|Noob v2
|
|
|-
|Datejust 28
|All Models
|2836 Asian
|GMF
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="3" |Oyster Perpetual
|36mm, most dial variants (NB: VSF movement has two crown positions instead of one)
|3235 Clone
|VSF
|
|
|-
|36mm, all other dial variants not by VSF
|3230 Clone
|
|GMF
|EWF
|-
|41mm models
|3230 Clone
|GMF
|BPF
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="2" |Seadweller
|126600
|3235 Clone
|VSF
|
|
|-
|126603 (gold)
|3235 Clone
|VSF
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="3" |Cellini
|Rose Gold Moonphase
|2824 Asian Moon
|EWF
|KZF
|GMF
|-
|Time only All models
|2824 Asian
|KZF
|
|
|-
|Dual Time
|Low Beat
|KZF
|
|
|}
==== Patek Phillipe ====
{| class="wikitable"
|'''Model Family'''
|'''Model Number/notes'''
|'''Movement'''
|'''Best Factory'''
|'''2nd Best'''
|'''3rd Best'''
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="11" |Nautilus
|5711 All Dial variants
|
|
|
|
|-
|Small date font, but clone mvmt
|324 Clone
|3KF
|
|
|-
|Best dial and OOTB
|9015 Miyota
|PPF v5
|
|
|-
|DiW Variants
|9015 Miyota
|DiWF
|
|
|-
|Iced Out (aka Diamonds)
|9015 Miyota
|R8F
|DM v2
|
|-
|5811 Blue
|324 Clone
|3KF
|
|
|-
|5712 Moonphase Date
|240 Clone
|PPF v2
|
|
|-
|5726 Annual Calendar
|9015 Miyota
|PPF
|
|
|-
|5980 Chrono (no good rep though)
|7750 Asian
|PPF
|TWF
|BPF
|-
|7010 Ladies 33mm
|324 Clone
|3KF
|
|
|-
|7118 Ladies 35mm
|324 Clone
|3KF
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="8" |Aquanaut
|5167 40mm
|324 Clone
|3KF
|
|
|-
|
|9015 Miyota
|ZF
|
|
|-
|5168 42mm Blue & Green
|324 Clone
|3KF
|
|
|-
|
|9015 Miyota
|ZF
|
|
|-
|5165 37mm
|9015 Miyota
|ZF
|
|
|-
|5164 Travel Time (not a good rep)
|9015 Miyota
|GRF v2
|
|
|-
|5067 35mm
|Quartz
|PPF
|
|
|-
|5968 Chronograph
|7750 Asian
|OMF
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="14" |Calatrava
|5227 (best Calatrava model)
|324 Clone
|3KF
|
|
|-
|
|9015 Miyota
|ZF
|
|
|-
|5296 (also best Calatrava model)
|9015 Miyota
|ZF
|
|
|-
|5077 Notre Dame & Bhutan Dial
|
|FLF
|
|
|-
|5088
|
|FLF
|
|
|-
|5089 Azulejos enamel dial
|
|FLF
|
|
|-
|5119
|
|TWF
|
|
|-
|5120
|
|TWF
|
|
|-
|5123
|
|TWF
|
|
|-
|5196 sub seconds
|
|AIF
|
|
|-
|5153 (good execution)
|9015 Miyota
|ZF
|
|
|-
|6007
|324 Clone
|3KF
|
|
|-
|
|9015 Miyota
|ZF
|
|
|-
|7112
|
|KGF
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="6" |Grand Complications
|4968 Ladies Moonphase
|
|KGF
|
|
|-
|5057 Cortina
|9015 Miyota
|YSF
|
|
|-
|5205 Triple Calendar Moonphase
|9015 Miyota
|GRF v2
|KMF
|
|-
|5396
|9015 Miyota
|ZF
|GRF v2
|
|-
|5524 Travel Time
|
|GRF v2
|
|
|-
|6102 Celestial Map
|Custom
|TZF
|
|
|}
==== Audemars Piguet ====
{| class="wikitable"
|'''Model Family'''
|'''Model Number/notes'''
|'''Movement'''
|'''Best Factory'''
|'''2nd Best'''
|'''3rd Best'''
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="10" |Royal Oak
|15500 41mm All dial variants
|4302 Clone
|ZF
|APSF
|
|-
|15510 41mm All dial variants
|4302 Clone
|APSF
|
|
|-
|15510 41mm All dial variants
|4302 Clone
|
|ZF
|
|-
|15400 41mm All dial variants
|3120 Clone
|ZF
|APSF
|
|-
|15410 41mm textured bracelet
|3120 Clone
|APSF
|
|
|-
|15550 37mm - no good clones yet
|9015 Miyota
|TWF
|IPF
|
|-
|15450 37mm
|3120 Clone
|APSF
|IPF
|
|-
|15202 39mm All dial variants
|9015 Miyota
|ZF
|XF (gone)
|BF
|-
|16202 39mm All dial variants
|9015 Miyota
|ZF
|
|
|-
|67651 33mm
|Quartz
|JJF
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="6" |Royal Oak Offshore
|15703 & 15710 42mm All variants
|3120 Clone
|ZF
|APSF
|
|-
|
|9015 Miyota
|ZF
|
|
|-
|15707 42mm Ceramic
|3120 Clone
|APSF
|
|
|-
|15720 42mm All Variants
|4302 Clone
|ZF
|APSF
|
|-
|67540 37mm
|9015 Miyota
|Unknown Factory
|
|
|-
|26240 44mm Chrono
|7750 Asian
|APF
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="4" |Grand Complications
|Royal Oak Tourbillon
|Tourbillon
|R8F
|
|
|-
|Open Work Tourbillon
|Tourbillon
|R8F
|
|
|-
|26331 Chronograph
|7750 Asian
|BPF
|OMF
|
|-
|26579 Perpetual Calendar
|9015 Miyota
|APSF
|
|
|}
==== Vacheron Constantin ====
{| class="wikitable"
|Model Family
|Model Number/notes
|Movement
|Best Factory
|2nd Best
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="4" |Overseas
|4500V All dial variants
|9015 Miyota
|ZF/PPF
|
|-
|2000V Ultra-Thin
|9015 Miyota
|XF (gone)
|
|-
|47040 All dial variants
|9015 Miyota
|PPF
|
|-
|7900V GMT
|9015 Miyota
|PZF
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="2" |Fifty-Six
|4600 Date Only
|9015 Miyota
|ZF
|
|-
|Complete Calendar
|9015 Miyota
|ZF
|MXF
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="2" |Patrimony
|85150 Traditionelle
|9015 Miyota
|PPF
|
|-
|4010 Perpetual Calendar
|9015 Miyota
|MXF
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="2" |Other References
|Chronometre Royal 1907
|
|MKS
|
|-
|Historique 86300
|
|GSF
|
|}
==== Richard Mille ====
{| class="wikitable"
|'''Model Family'''
|'''Model Number/notes'''
|'''Movement'''
|'''Best Factory'''
|'''2nd Best'''
|'''3rd Best'''
|-
|
|RM011
|
|KVF - thick but best decorated
|
|
|-
|
|RM035
|
|BBR factory
|Sonic
|ZF
|-
|
|RM055
|
|BBR factory
|ZF
|
|-
|
|RM027-01
|
|YSF
|EURF
|
|-
|
|RM027-02
|
|RMF
|
|
|-
|
|RM027-03
|
|RMF
|
|
|-
|
|RM056
|
|EURF
|
|
|-
|
|RM052 Skull
|
|3KF
|JBF
|
|-
|
|RM012
|
|KVF
|
|
|-
|
|RM68
|
|RRF
|
|
|-
|
|RM010
|
|RRF
|
|
|-
|
|RM07
|
|RMF
|
|
|}
==== Omega ====
{| class="wikitable"
|'''Model Family'''
|'''Model Number/notes'''
|'''Movement'''
|'''Best Factory'''
|'''2nd Best'''
|'''3rd Best'''
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="10" |Seamaster
|All models
|Clone
|VSF
|
|
|-
|
|2824 Asian
|ORF
|OMF
|
|-
|300 black ceramic
|2824 Asian
|OMF
|
|
|-
|Aqua Terra
|Clone
|VSF
|
|
|-
|
|2824 Asian
|OMF
|
|
|-
|Aqua Terra GMT
|Clone
|VSF
|
|
|-
|No Time to Die 007
|2824 Asian
|VSF
|OMF
|
|-
|Diver 300M
|Clone
|VSF
|
|
|-
|
|2824 Asian
|ZF
|OMF
|
|-
|Ultra Deep 6000M
|Clone
|VSF
|
|
|-
|Planet Ocean
|39mm, 42mm, 45mm
|Clone
|VSF
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="3" |Speedmaster
|Racing
|7750 Asian
|HRF
|
|
|-
|Speedmaster 57 (not great)
|7750 Asian
|OMF
|
|
|-
|Snoopy
|Asian Lemania
|OMF
|RMF
|OSF
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="4" |Deville
|33mm
|
|UVS F
|
|
|-
|33mm Dew Drop
|
|3S F
|
|
|-
|36mm
|
|HRF
|
|
|-
|Prestige 39mm
|2824 Asian
|ZF
|
|
|-
|Constellation
|41mm
|Clone
|VSF
|
|
|}
==== Cartier ====
{| class="wikitable"
|'''Model Family'''
|'''Model Number/notes'''
|'''Movement'''
|'''Best Factory'''
|'''2nd Best'''
|'''3rd Best'''
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="5" |Tank
|Louis
|Quartz
|DRF
|
|
|-
|Solo Small
|Quartz
|AF
|K11F
|
|-
|Solo Large
|9015 Miyota
|AF
|F1F
|TWF
|-
|Must
|
|AF
|F1F
|K11F
|-
|Francaise
|
|8848F
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="4" |Santos
|35mm steel
|
|GF/GOF
|BVF
|3KF
|-
|35mm Two-tone/gold
|
|BVF
|3KF
|
|-
|40mm Steel
|
|GF/GOF
|BVF
|3KF
|-
|40mm Two-tone/gold
|
|BVF
|3KF
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="3" |Ballon Bleu
|33mm & 36mm
|Quartz
|AF
|3KF
|V6F
|-
|36mm
|9015 Miyota
|AF
|V6F
|
|-
|41mm
|9015 Miyota/2824
|AF
|3KF
|V6F
|-
|Panthere
|Secrete De
|Quartz
|GF/GOF
|BVF
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="2" |Pasha
|30mm
|Quartz
|AF
|
|
|-
|35mm
|9019 Miyota
|3KF
|
|
|}
==== Tudor ====
{| class="wikitable"
|'''Model Family'''
|'''Model Number/notes'''
|'''Movement'''
|'''Best Factory'''
|'''2nd Best'''
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="3" |Pelagos
|Titanium Black
|2824 Asian
|XF
|ZF
|-
|Titanium Blue
|2824 Asian
|XF
|ZF
|-
|Left Hand Diver (LHD)
|2824 Asian
|XF
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="7" |Black Bay
|Heritage 36
|2824 Asian
|KRF v3
|
|-
|Pepsi GMT
|2836 Asian GMT
|ZF
|
|-
|Two Tone GMT
|2836 Asian GMT
|ZF
|
|-
|Heritage GMT
|2836 Asian GMT
|ZF
|
|-
|Heritage Chronograph
|7750 Asian
|unknown (TWF?)
|
|-
|41mm Diver
|2824 Asian
|ZF
|
|-
|Heritage Diver 58
|9015 Miyota
|ZF
|XF
|-
|Royal
|Day Date
|2836 Asian
|V7F
|
|}
==== Jaeger-LeCoultre ====
{| class="wikitable"
|Model Family
|Model Number/notes
|Movement
|Best Factory
|2nd Best
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="7" |Master Ultra Thin
|Moonphase (5 stars on moonphase)
|925 Clone
|ZF v2
|IMF (Miyota 9015)
|-
|Moonphase (Lots of stars on moon)
|925 Clone
|APSF
|IMF (Miyota 9015)
|-
|Date (at 6 o clock)
|9015 Miyota
|IMF
|
|-
|Small Seconds
|9015 Miyota
|ZF
|
|-
|Power Reserve
|Clone
|ZF
|
|-
|Perpetual Calendar
|9015 Miyota
|TWF
|
|-
|Tourbillon
|Tourbillon
|RMSF
|
|-
|Reverso
|Tribute Duoface Small Seconds
|
|MGF
|
|-
|Polaris
|
|9015 Miyota
|BLS
|
|-
|Rendezvous
|
|
|ZF
|APSF
|}
==== Panerai ====
{| class="wikitable"
|'''Model Family'''
|'''Model Number/notes'''
|'''Movement'''
|'''Best Factory'''
|'''2nd Best'''
|'''3rd Best'''
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="27" |Luminor
|PAM 000 - Luminor Base Logo (44mm) N-series Noob V2.5
|Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 005 - Luminar Marina Logo (44mm) N-series Noob V2 / N-series H maker V2
|Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 026 - Luminor Marina Destro PVD (44mm) K-series Noob V3
|Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 029 - Luminor GMT (44mm) M-series Noob V2-improved
|
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 057 - Luminor Power Reserve Titanium (44mm) DSN
|
|
|
|
|-
|PAM 088 - Luminor GMT (44mm) O-series Noob
|
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 104 - Luminor Marina Automatic (44mm) O-series Noob
|
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 111 - Luminor Marina (44mm) N-series Noob V3 (and later -> current best : v11)
|Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) depending on factory options can be 21,600 or 18,000 vph
|Noob (Closed)
|XF
|HWF
|-
|PAM 112 - Luminor Base (44mm) M-N series Noob
|Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 127 - Luminor 1950 "Fiddy" (47mm) Latest Noob
|
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 164 - Luminor Marina Automatic (44mm) O-series Noob
|
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 176 - Luminor Base Titanium (44mm) M-N series Noob V3
|Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 177 - Luminor Marina Titanium (44mm) N-P series Noob
|Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 187 - Luminor Submersible Chorno 1000m (47mm) Noob 7753
|
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 217 - Luminor Marina Militare 1950 Destro "Fiddy" (47mm) 2012 Noob
|Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 243 - Luminor 1950 Submersible (44mm) M-series Noob V2
|
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 297 - Luminor GMT (44mm) O-series Noob
|
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 299 - Luminor Marina Automatic (K-series) (44mm) O- series Noob
|
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 318 - Luminor Marina Logo (44mm) L-series Noob
|Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 356 - Luminor Chrono Daylight (44mm) O-series Noob 7753
|
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 364 - Luminor Submersible 1950 Titanium (47mm) P-series Noob
|
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 390 - Luminor Boutique Edition (44mm) N-series Noob
|Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 411 to 420 - Luminor Marina Boutiques Special Edition (44mm) KW/V6F
|Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph
|V6F/VSF
|
|
|-
|PAM 432 to 434 - Luminor Marina Boutiques Special Edition (44mm) H Maker
|
|
|
|
|-
|PAM 441 - Luminor GMT VSF V2
|
|VSF
|
|
|-
|PAM 508 - Luminor 1950 Submerislbe Ceramica (47mm) KW-V6Fac Ceramic decorated A7750 Inverted KP9000 // P-KW-V6Fac Ceramic decorated Seagull NON-inverted KP9000-Seagull V2
|
|V6F/VSF
|
|
|-
|PAM 569 - Luminor 1950 Submersible Dextro Titanium (47mm) KW-V6F Q-series Seagull Non-Inverted KWP9000-Seagull V2
|
|V6F/VSF
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="3" |Radiomir
|PAM 288 - Radiomir Chronograph (45mm) K-series H maker
|
|
|
|
|-
|PAM 292 - Radiomir Black Seal (45mm) J-series Noob
|
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 346 - Radiomir Titanio (45mm) KW/V6F
|
|V6F/VSF
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="4" |Submersible
|PAM 187 - Luminor Submersible Chorno 1000m (47mm) Noob 7753
|
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 243 - Luminor 1950 Submersible (44mm) M-series Noob V2
|
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 364 - Luminor Submersible 1950 Titanium (47mm) P-series Noob
|
|Noob (Closed)
|
|
|-
|PAM 569 - Luminor 1950 Submersible Dextro Titanium (47mm) KW-V6F Q-series Seagull Non-Inverted KWP9000-Seagull V2
|
|V6F/VSF
|
|
|}
==== Breitling ====
{| class="wikitable"
|'''Model Family'''
|'''Model Number/notes'''
|'''Movement'''
|'''Best Factory'''
|'''2nd Best'''
|-
|Avenger
|Breitling Avenger II GMT GF/GOF (first batch with correct DW, includes the polished SS and the blacksteel / DLC) infos here
|
|GF/GOF
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="4" |SuperOcean
|Breitling SuperOcean Abyss
|
|
|
|-
|Breitling SuperOcean Abyss Chrono Noob
|
|
|
|-
|Breitling SuperOcean Heritage Black Noob V2 (not available on TD anymore)
|
|GF/GOF
|OF
|-
|Breitling SuperOcean II 44mm (Noob) (black only)
|
|Noob (Closed)
|
|-
|Navitimer
|Breitling Navitimer 1 41mm - V7F (blue is best, then black/white)
|
|V7F/VSF
|
|-
|Transocean
|Breitling Transocean Day Date Blue - V7F
|
|V7F/VSF
|
|-
|Chronomat
|
|
|
|
|-
|Premier
|
|
|
|
|}
==== IWC Schaffhausen ====
{| class="wikitable"
|'''Model Family'''
|'''Model Number/notes'''
|'''Movement'''
|'''Best Factory'''
|'''2nd Best'''
|'''3rd Best'''
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="8" |Big Pilot's / Pilot's
|IWC Big Pilot 5009-01
|
|ZF
|
|
|-
|IWC 3878 Spitfire
|
|V6F/VSF
|
|
|-
|Most pilot dial variants 40mm
|Miyota 9015
|ZF
|
|
|-
|
|Asian 2892
|M+F
|
|
|-
|IWC 3777-01
|Asian 7750
|ZF
|
|
|-
|Big Pilot Tourbillon
|Tourbillon
|JBF
|
|
|-
|40mm Pilot Bronze
|Miyota 9015
|MKS
|
|
|-
|Pilot Chrono
|Asian 7750
|ZF
|V6SF
|
|-
|Da Vinci
|IWC Da Vinci
|
|TW
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="2" |Portofino
|IWC Portofino
|
|AF
|V7F
|
|-
|IWC Portofino "150 years anniversary"
|
|V7F
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="7" |Portugieser
|Chrono, all dial variants
|Modified 7750
|ZF
|AZF
|YLF
|-
|Chrono Yacht with date, all variants
|Asian 7750
|ZF
|APF
|
|-
|Small Seconds
|Custom
|ZF
|
|
|-
|Tourbillon
|Tourbillon
|TC F
|
|
|-
|Perpetual Calendar
|Custom 9015
|APSF
|
|
|-
|Annual Calendar
|Custom
|ZF
|AZF
|YLF
|-
|7 Days
|Custom
|ZF
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="3" |Aquatimer
|Chrono
|Asian 7750
|V6SF
|
|
|-
|IW3290 Date only
|Asian 2892
|V6SF
|
|
|-
|Automatic
|Asian 2892
|V6SF
|
|
|-
| colspan="1" rowspan="2" |Ingenieur
|Vintage model
|Miyota 9015
|AIF
|
|
|-
|Carbon
|Miyota 9015
|CF
|
|
|}
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1EC5pJdbP4ebBvuu7wsZcgwbfGiNhjAV28g5UMKSGJe4/htmlview Source]
== The 'Not Worth Buying In Gen' (NWBIG) Guide ==
If you decide to buy one of these watches because it is in this list, please always take the time to understand WHY it's in the list, check reviews, make sure you understand what you're buying.
Note that if there are several super reps of the same model and unless both are awesome quality, only the best one will be listed here.
Some watches are discontinued (can only be found in p2p).
'''Commonly accepted as Super Reps NWBIGs'''
{| class="wikitable"
|'''Brand'''
|'''Model'''
|'''Factory'''
|'''Version'''
|-
|Audemars Piguet
|ROO Diver JF 10 15703
|JF
|
|-
|Blancpain
|Fifty Fathoms (black)
|Noob
|V1
|-
|
|Fifty Fathoms (black)
|ZF
|
|-
|Breitling
|Avenger II GMT GF
|GF
|
|-
|
|SuperOcean Abyss
|
|
|-
|
|SuperOcean Abyss Chrono Noob
|Noob
|
|-
|
|SuperOcean Heritage Black Noob V2
|Noob
|
|-
|
|SuperOcean II 44mm (black only)
|Noob
|
|-
|
|Transocean Day Date Blue - V7F
|V7F
|
|-
|
|Navitimer 1 41mm - V7F
|V7F
|
|-
|Bvlgari
|Diagono Magnesium GF, last version
|GF
|
|-
|Cartier
|Santos XL V6
|V6
|
|-
|
|Ballon Bleu 42mm, V6F V4
|V6
|V4
|-
|
|Ballon Bleu Pink Dial 33m, AF (CAL.076)
|AF
|
|-
|
|Tank Solo W5200025 RG AF
|AF
|
|-
|Franck Muller
|Casablanca Automatique 8880
|GF
|
|-
|Hublot
|Big Bang V6(F) "V6.5" SS
|V6
|
|-
|IWC
|3777-01 ZF
|
|
|-
|
|3878 Spitfire V6F
|V6
|
|-
|
|Big Pilot 5009-01 ZF
|ZF
|
|-
|
|Laureus Sport Ingenieur 2824 Noob
|Noob
|
|-
|
|Da Vinci by TW
|TW
|
|-
|
|Portofino AF
|AF
|
|-
|
|Portofino "150 years anniversary" blue dial (maybe others too)
|V7F
|
|-
|Jaeger-LeCoultre
|Diver Master Compressor Noob
|Noob
|
|-
|Montblanc
|Timewalker Chrono - Noob A7753
|Noob
|
|-
|Panerai
|PAM 000 - Luminor Base Logo (44mm) N-series Noob V2.5
|Noob
|V2.5
|-
|
|PAM 005 - Luminar Marina Logo (44mm) N-series Noob V2 / N-series H maker V2
|Noob
|V2 / V2
|-
|
|PAM 026 - Luminor Marina Destro PVD (44mm) K-series Noob V3
|Noob
|V3
|-
|
|PAM 029 - Luminor GMT (44mm) M-series Noob V2-improved
|Noob
|V2-improved
|-
|
|PAM 057 - Luminor Power Reserve Titanium (44mm) DSN
|DSN
|
|-
|
|PAM 087 - H maker F-series w/ A-7750
|H maker
|F-series w/ A-7750
|-
|
|PAM 088 - Luminor GMT (44mm) O-series Noob
|Noob
|O-series
|-
|
|PAM 104 - Luminor Marina Automatic (44mm) O-series Noob
|Noob
|O-series
|-
|
|PAM 111 - Luminor Marina (44mm) N-series Noob V3 (and later -> current best : v11)
|Noob
|V3 / v11
|-
|
|PAM 112 - Luminor Base (44mm) M-N series Noob
|Noob
|M-N series
|-
|
|PAM 127 - Luminor 1950 "Fiddy" (47mm) Latest Noob
|Noob
|Latest
|-
|
|PAM 164 - Luminor Marina Automatic (44mm) O-series Noob
|Noob
|O-series
|-
|
|PAM 176 - Luminor Base Titanium (44mm) M-N series Noob V3
|Noob
|M-N series V3
|-
|
|PAM 177 - Luminor Marina Titanium (44mm) N-P series Noob
|Noob
|N-P series
|-
|
|PAM 187 - Luminor Submersible Chorno 1000m (47mm) Noob 7753
|Noob
|7753
|-
|
|PAM 217 - Luminor Marina Militare 1950 Destro "Fiddy" (47mm) 2012 Noob
|Noob
|2012
|-
|
|PAM 243 - Luminor 1950 Submersible (44mm) M-series Noob V2
|Noob
|V2
|-
|
|PAM 285 - K-series KW/V6Fac with A7750 decorated like OPIII)
|KW/V6Fac
|A7750 decorated
|-
|
|PAM 288 - Radiomir Chronograph (45mm) K-series H maker
|H maker
|K-series
|-
|
|PAM 292 - Radiomir Black Seal (45mm) J-series Noob
|Noob
|J-series
|-
|
|PAM 297 - Luminor GMT (44mm) O-series Noob
|Noob
|O-series
|-
|
|PAM 299 - Luminor Marina Automatic (K-series) (44mm) O-series Noob
|Noob
|O-series
|-
|
|PAM 318 - Luminor Marina Logo (44mm) L-series Noob
|Noob
|L-series
|-
|
|PAM 346 - Radiomir Titanio (45mm) KW/V6F
|KW/V6F
|
|-
|
|PAM 356 - Luminor Chrono Daylight (44mm) O-series Noob 7753
|Noob
|O-series 7753
|-
|
|PAM 364 - Luminor Submersible 1950 Titanium (47mm) P-series Noob
|Noob
|P-series
|-
|
|PAM 390 - Luminor Boutique Edition (44mm) N-series Noob
|Noob
|N-series
|-
|
|PAM 411 to 420 - Luminor Marina Boutiques Special Edition (44mm) KW/V6F
|KW/V6F
|Special Edition
|-
|
|PAM 432 to 434 - Luminor Marina Boutiques Special Edition (44mm) H Maker
|H Maker
|Special Edition
|-
|
|PAM 441 - Luminor GMT VSF V2
|VSF
|V2
|-
|
|PAM 508 - Luminor 1950 Submerislbe Ceramica (47mm) KW-V6Fac Ceramic decorated A7750 Inverted KP9000 // P-KW-V6Fac Ceramic decorated Seagull NON-inverted KP9000-Seagull V2
|KW-V6Fac / P-KW-V6Fac
|A7750 / Seagull V2
|-
|
|PAM 569 - Luminor 1950 Submersible Dextro Titanium (47mm) KW-V6F Q-series Seagull Non-Inverted KWP9000-Seagull V2
|KW-V6F
|Seagull V2
|-
|
|PAM 571 - ZFac P-series P.9000 decorated A7750 NON-inverted Improved ZP9000-V2.5 // KW-V6Fac P-series P.9000 decorated A7750 Inverted KP9000-V2. KW-V6Fac P-series P.9000 decorated Seagull NON-inverted K9000-SeagullV2.
|ZFac / KW-V6Fac / K9000-SeagullV2
|P.9000 decorated A7750 / P.9000 decorated Seagull
|-
|
|PAM 607 - KW-V6Fac P-series Ceramic decorated A7750 NON-inverted KP9000-V2) The most interesting version for A7750 lovers. // KW-V6Fac P-series Ceramic decorated KP9000-Seagull V2 NON-inverted The most interesting version for Seagull lovers
|KW-V6Fac
|A7750 / Seagull V2
|-
|Rolex
|114300, 39mm, Grape and Grey dial JF (now ARF, service is recommended)
|JF / ARF
|
|-
|
|Sub 16610 TC
|TC
|
|-
|
|TW Best/WM9 (Sub/Bluesy/DD)
|TW Best / WM9
|Sub / Bluesy / DD
|-
|
|116900 AIR-KING GMF & BP (last versions)
|GMF & BP
|Last versions
|-
|Seven Friday
|P series (P1-1, P3-1)
|V6F
|
|-
|
|V series (V2-1)
|V6F
|
|-
|
|M series (not the M2-2 one)
|V6F
|
|-
|Tag Heuer
|Aquaracer 300 (White Dial on Ronda with SS bracelet)
|
|
|-
|
|Aquaracer Calibre 5 SS on Rubber - SW200
|
|
|-
|Tudor
|Black Bay Red 2016 ZF (last shield version)
|ZF
|Last shield version
|-
|
|Heritage Ranger SS S Factory
|S Factory
|
|-
|
|Black Pelagos V6F/XF V2/3/4
|V6F/XF
|V2/3/4
|-
|
|Blue Pelagos V6F/XF V2/3/4
|V6F/XF
|V2/3/4
|}
<br>'''Commonly accepted as First Class++ NWBIGs'''<br>These are Super Reps on the wrist, minor tell only on the open caseback or a missing function so unless you take it off, show it to an expert and give him a few minutes for close inspection, these ARE CONSIDERED SUPER REPS
{| class="wikitable"
!Brand
!Model
!Factory
!Version
|-
|Panerai
|PAM 438 - VSF V2
|VSF
|V2
|-
|
|PAM 687 - Acciaio Brevettato SF
|SF
|
|-
|Longines
|Master Collection LGF Top Edition
|LGF
|Top Edition
|-
|Omega
|Seamaster Planet Ocean 600m LMPO Noob V5
|Noob
|V5
|-
|
|Seamaster Diver 300M 2019 Real Ceramic Case VSF (v1 only unless you get a fixed version)
|VSF
|v1 / fixed version
|-
|Patek Philippe
|Calatrava 5296R RG/LE ZF with MY9015 Mod (WG could be too, need feedback)
|ZF / WG
|MY9015 Mod / WG?
|-
|
|Calatrava 5296G SS ZF White Sector Dial/Blue Hands
|ZF
|White Sector Dial
|}
<br>'''Under debate / No Consensus yet<br>'''Likely Super Reps but needs more feedback, definitely FIRST CLASS NWBIGs
{| class="wikitable"
!Brand
!Model
!Factory
!Version
|-
|Cartier
|Ballon Bleu 28 and 33mm
|V6F
|
|-
|
|Santos 100 V6F (Black Dial, Titanium Ultimate Swiss SW)
|V6F
|Black Dial, Titanium Ultimate Swiss SW
|-
|
|Ronde Croisiere WSRN0002 GP
|GP
|
|-
|
|W5200025 ZF
|ZF
|
|-
|Chanel
|J12 38 mm - FR Factory
|FR Factory
|
|-
|IWC
|501902 Top Gun Miramar ZF
|ZF
|
|-
|
|IW388002 V6F
|V6F
|
|-
|
|IW327010 MARK XVIII by V7 Factory
|V7 Factory
|
|-
|
|Big Pilot IW502001 Real Ceramic ZF V2 (waiting for new batch, short minute hand issue)
|ZF
|V2 (waiting for new batch)
|-
|Longines
|La Grande Classique SS 37mm JF
|JF
|
|-
|
|Avigation Bigeye ZX
|ZX
|
|-
|Omega
|Aqua Terra 8500 Clone - VSF
|VSF
|
|-
|
|AT Master Co-Axial 8900 - VSF
|VSF
|
|-
|
|De Ville SS RXW A2892
|RXW A2892
|
|-
|
|De Ville SS GPF V2
|GPF V2
|
|-
|Tudor
|Heritage Ranger V6F
|V6F
|
|-
|TAG Heuer
|Aquaracer Special Edition Premier League GS
|
|
|-
|Zenith
|Pilot Extra Special 20 - Black dial (V6F > ZF)
|V6F / ZF
|Black dial (V6F > ZF)
|}
'''FIRST CLASS NWBIGs'''
{| class="wikitable"
!Brand
!Model
!Factory
!Version
|-
|Audemars Piguet
|15703 ZF
|ZF
|
|-
|
|15500 Black and Blue - ZF & APS
|ZF / APS
|Black and Blue
|-
|Bell & Ross
|03-92 ZF (not the Golden Heritage one that has a very bad Dial)
|ZF
|Not the Golden Heritage
|-
|
|03-92 Horolum Watch Archive Custom
|
|
|-
|
|03-93 GMT Watch Archive Custom
|
|
|-
|Blancpain
|Fifty Fathoms (Noob V2)
|Noob V2
|
|-
|Breitling
|Navitimer World 46mm GMT (black only) BP
|BP
|
|-
|
|Avenger Blackbird (GF/ GF V2 - GOF/GOF V2)
|GF / GF V2 (GOF/GOF V2)
|
|-
|Cartier
|W6701011 ZF (really subtle difference on DW and window)
|ZF
|Really subtle difference
|-
|Franck Muller
|Master Square GF
|GF
|
|-
|Hublot
|Classic Fusion 42mm JJF black dial (V2) - Back is wrong and screws are randomly falling
|JJF
|V2
|-
|IWC
|Portofino White Dial V5 MKF
|MKF
|
|-
|
|Portofino "150 years anniversary" white dial MKF
|MKF
|
|-
|
|Mark XVII Le Petit Prince MKF
|MKF
|Le Petit Prince
|-
|
|Mark XVII MKF
|MKF
|
|-
|
|Portuguese 7 days ZF (last version)
|ZF
|Last version
|-
|
|Black 3714 - ZF V3 (slim movement)
|ZF V3
|Slim movement
|-
|Jaeger-LeCoultre
|Master-Ultrathin Moonphase ZF (black dial, possibly the others too, moon & back / clasp are little off)
|ZF
|Black dial, moon & back issues
|-
|Montblanc
|Heritage Spirit M Factory
|M Factory
|
|-
|Omega
|Seamaster 300 Spectre VSF
|VSF
|
|-
|
|Seamaster Diver 300M 2018 VSF V2
|VSF V2
|
|-
|
|Seamaster Planet Ocean 600m 42 and 45mm (CrPO) Noob
|Noob
|42mm and 45mm
|-
|
|Seamaster Planet Ocean (45.5 / 42mm) CrPO (8500 Super Clone) VSF
|VSF
|45.5mm / 42mm
|-
|Panerai
|PAM 382 - VSF V2 (small issue with the font on the crown guard)
|VSF V2
|Small font issue
|-
|Patek Philippe
|Calatrava 6007A ZF
|ZF
|
|-
|Rolex
|DateJust 41 by VSF / ARF
|VSF / ARF
|
|-
|
|Explorer (214270) SH3135 V2 (JF)
|JF
|
|-
|
|Day Date 18239 TW Best/WM9
|TW Best / WM9
|
|-
|
|Daytona 116500 (Asia 4130 Mod) White/Stk - Noob
|Noob
|White/Stk
|-
|
|Daytona 116520 (Asia 4130 Mod) - Noob
|Noob
|
|-
|
|Submariner 116610LN ZZF v2
|ZZF v2
|
|-
|
|Submariner No Date ZZF v3
|ZZF v3
|
|-
|
|Submariner 116610 Date VSF (GET THIS ONE, might even be Super Rep once Rehaut is fixed)
|VSF
|Rehaut issue
|-
|
|Sea Dweller 4000 (116660) ARF 904L Steel SH3135
|ARF
|904L Steel SH3135
|-
|
|Sea Dweller 4000 (116600) Noob V2
|Noob V2
|
|-
|
|Sea Dweller 2017 Baselworld 126600 904L ARF & Noob (latest versions)
|ARF / Noob
|
|-
|
|Yacht-Master Rhodium Noob 904L Steel SA3135/VR3135
|Noob
|Rhodium
|-
|Tag Heuer
|Carrera calibre 1887 V6F - Ceramic Bezel Black Dial on SS
|V6F
|Ceramic Bezel
|-
|Tudor
|LHD Pelagos - XF
|XF
|LHD Pelagos
|-
|
|Black Pelagos - ZF V2/V3
|ZF V2 / V3
|
|}
<br>'''Under review (likely to be FIRST CLASS, some could be Super Reps but need more feedback)'''
{| class="wikitable"
!Brand
!Model
!Factory
!Version
|-
|Audemars Piguet
|XF V2 FC Diver 15706
|XF
|V2 FC Diver
|-
|Breitling
|SuperOcean SeaWolf H-factory v2
|H-factory
|V2
|-
|
|Superocean Heritage II 42mm - GF/GOF V2 (wrong pearl, font too bold, date font)
|GF/GOF
|V2
|-
|Concord
|C1 - H Factory
|H Factory
|
|-
|Cartier
|Panthère Secrete DJ
|
|
|-
|
|Tank Solo W5200025 RG AF 1:1
|RG AF
|1:1
|-
|IWC
|Big Pilot 5009-12 ZF
|ZF
|
|-
|
|Big Pilot 5009-16 ZF
|ZF
|
|-
|
|5009-08 LPP ZF V2
|ZF V2
|
|-
|Omega
|Seamaster Planet Ocean GMT 600m
|
|
|-
|
|De Ville SS MKS
|MKS
|
|-
|
|Planet Ocean 600m GMT (Black/Orange) VSF 8605
|VSF 8605
|
|-
|Panerai
|PAM 616 - CarboTech Submersible VSF A7750
|VSF
|A7750
|-
|
|PAM 424 V2 California Dial Super Clone P.3000 ZF
|ZF
|V2
|-
|Rolex
|Sea Dweller Deepsea (DBlue) Noob V7
|Noob V7
|DBlue
|-
|
|Date-Just 116234 ARF
|ARF
|
|-
|
|Explorer II 42mm 216570 Noob (Correct Hand Stack)
|Noob
|Correct Hand Stack
|-
|SevenFriday
|P2B/03-W ‘Woody’ NFC V6F
|V6F
|
|-
|Tudor
|Heritage Black Bay Bronze Blue XF
|XF
|
|-
|
|Blue Heritage Black Bay (Bucherer) XF
|XF
|
|-
|Vacheron Constantin
|Overseas White JJF MY9015 Mod (need feedback on movement noise and cross engraving thickness on the back)
|JJF
|MY9015 Mod, feedback needed
|-
|Zenith
|Extra Special Bronze Edition V6F/KW
|V6F/KW
|
|}
'''NOT ACCEPTED as NWBIGs/Super Reps (naked eye instant tell(s)/waiting for update)'''
{| class="wikitable"
!Brand
!Model
!Factory
!Version
|-
|Tudor
|BB Red Rose Edition ZF
|ZF
|V4/V5
|-
|Blancpain
|Villeret 6654 SS (with complication) OMF
|OMF
|With complication
|-
|Glashutte
|Senator Sixties - GF
|GF
|
|-
|Rolex
|Celini MKF
|MKF
|
|-
|Tudor
|Black Bay GMT Baselworld 2018 ZF
|ZF
|
|-
|Patek Philippe
|Nautilus 5711 PPF White
|PPF
|White
|}
<br>[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SuUYh-rLYTOKVIX9GRILrc_Eh7b8Nu4q-R1cEEZh3J0/edit#gid=0 Source]<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="ipsType_normal ipsType_richText ipsPadding_bottom ipsContained" data-role="commentContent" data-controller="core.front.core.lightboxedImages"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="ipsType_normal ipsType_richText ipsPadding_bottom ipsContained" data-role="commentContent" data-controller="core.front.core.lightboxedImages"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="ipsType_normal ipsType_richText ipsPadding_bottom ipsContained" data-role="commentContent" data-controller="core.front.core.lightboxedImages"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="ipsType_normal ipsType_richText ipsPadding_bottom ipsContained" data-role="commentContent" data-controller="core.front.core.lightboxedImages"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="ipsType_normal ipsType_richText ipsPadding_bottom ipsContained" data-role="commentContent" data-controller="core.front.core.lightboxedImages"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
== What to look for in a Replica Watch Quality Check (QC) ==
You've made an order and the dealer has sent you an album of your watch and asked if you accept.
This guide covers what you should pay attention to when RL (Red Lighting/Rejection) or GL (Green Light/Approving) a watch.
'''Index alignment'''
Refers to the alignment of the hour markers or numerals on the watch dial. The index alignment is essential for the overall aesthetics and functionality of the watch.
You can check the index alignment of your watch during the PSP by having your seller send you a clear, straight on shot of the face of the watch. You'll then take that image and upload it to this site: <nowiki>https://watchqc.com</nowiki> There you can use the tools to look at the alignment and make sure it doesnt have a lazy eye.
Now, don't get your fing panties in a bunch if you find shit is misaligned. First make sure you're using the tool correctly. You also want to ensure that your PSP isn't taken at any kind of weird angle. This is one of the many reasons why the TD list is so crucial, they are accustomed to providing the right photos, and so all you have to do is stick it in that link.
'''Index alignment for a Rolex Lady's Datejust 31''' with diamond markers, the watchQC tool should hit THE SAME POINT on the watch in the middle of the diamond. You will see in the photo's I provided in accuracy below. Note that there is a difference between consistency and accuracy:
* Accuracy: Accuracy refers to how close a measured value or information is to the true or correct value. Accuracy would be each spoke on the assessment tool hitting the middle of the diamond.
* Consistency: Consistency refers to the degree of uniformity, stability, or repeatability of results or measurements when performed under the same conditions. In this case, each spoke of the assessment tool touching the same points on the watch.
You'll see in the photos of my rep, that it is consistent, but not accurate. That's cus im fucking lazy and can't hold the watch straight. You want to make note of the CONSISTENCY when using the tool if you have a photo like mine, not the accuracy. Ideally both however.
'''Dial Printing'''
Refers to the various markings, text, numerals, and decorative elements to the watch dial. The dial is the flat or slightly curved surface of the watch face where the time is displayed. Common elements you may find on a watch dial:
* Hour Markers/Minute Markers/Brand Name/Logo
* Luminous Material: make the watch readable in low-light conditions. (something that shit watches can fuck up if the chemical isn't applied properly, so your watch might look like shit even in the dark)
* Subdials: In watches with additional complications like chronographs (stopwatch function) or other features, small subdials may be included on the main dial.
* Tachymeter/Telemeter/Other Scales: Some watches have specialized scales printed on the outer edge or inner bezel of the dial for specific purposes, such as measuring speed (tachymeter) or distance (telemeter).
'''Dial Printing for a Rolex Lady's Datejust 31'''with diamond markers. This is somewhat straight forward and also really annoying and complex. Simply put just compare a close up of your Rep with the Authentic online, ideally a photo of the authentic from a watch forum. You'll want to look at the following:
* Diamond Hour Markers: The dial will feature diamond hour markers at each hour position
* Date Window: Datejust models include a date window at the 3 o'clock position, allowing you to see the current date. More on this in the Date Wheel alignment section.
* Rolex Crown Logo: The Rolex crown logo is present in place of the 12 o'clock position.
* "ROLEX" Brand Name: The brand name "ROLEX" is printed below the 12 o'clock position, and below that "oyster perpetual datejust"
* Above the 6 o'clock position will be "superlative chronometer officially certified"
* Below the 6 o'clock position will be "Swiss made" with a Rolex image between the words
* Model/Collection Name: Most Rollies will have an engraving that is seen on the rim underneath the crystal face. It will say ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX until the 6 o'clock position and then it will be the serial number. you can see what I'm talking about HERE
* Finally any Rolex made after 2002 will have a very very faint etching on the crystal. It is a small crown emblem etched at the 6 o'clock position on the inside surface of the crystal. It's really hard to see and I saw it first on my rep before I could find it on my auth. Note that an auth isn't going to be all flashy about it, its def super hard to find, the rep on the other hand, may or may not have it but if it does the fainter, more difficult to spot the better. read more about it HERE
This gets complicated because I cannot find the EXACT measurements of the above anywhere, so if you want to get freakishly technical about it- call your psychiatrist. Other than that just compare the two faces of the watch side by side as images. Try and look for the size and spacing of the letters, if it's printed cleanly, if it's spelled "Bolex".
Fun fact, "kerning" is a typographic term used in graphic design and typesetting to refer to the adjustment of the space between individual characters or letters in a piece of text. It is specifically focused on adjusting the space between two adjacent characters to achieve better visual harmony and improve the overall appearance of the text.
~cHeCk YoR kErrnnINGg~
'''Date Wheel alignment/printing'''
Also known as Date Disc alignment or Date Printing, this is a rotating disc inside the watch movement that displays the current date through a small window (date window) on the watch dial. Date Wheel alignment or printing refers to the proper positioning and centering of the numerical or numeral indicators on the Date Wheel to ensure that the date is correctly displayed in the date window. Watch manufacturers use different techniques and technologies to achieve accurate Date Wheel alignment during the manufacturing process.
Misaligned Date Wheels can lead to various issues, such as:
* Partially hidden date: If the Date Wheel is misaligned, the date numerals may not fully appear through the date window, making it difficult to read the complete date.
* Overlapping or misshapen numerals: Improper alignment can cause date numerals to overlap or appear distorted, affecting readability.
* Incorrect date display: In some cases, a misaligned Date Wheel may cause the date to jump or change slightly before or after midnight, leading to an inaccurate display.
'''Date Wheel alignment/printing for a Rolex Lady's Datejust 31:''' In the case of Rolex's '''the cyclops lens''' is the specific name for it's date window (small, circular piece of magnifying material, typically made of sapphire crystal, which is placed directly above the date aperture at the 3 o'clock position on the watch dial.) The primary function of '''the cyclops''' is to enhance date legibility, so you know if you're late and carrying your idiot boyfriends child. It enlarges the date numeral by around 2.5 times, making it more prominent and clearer for the wearer. This is usually what is a dead give away, as it's hard to reproduce. Further information HERE
Also pretty straight forward and annoyingly technical. Off the bat I can tell that the number within the date wheel sits a little too low, it's also slightly less visible and thus smaller than my Auth. This is due to the typeface being slightly smaller and something is a little off with the cyclops lens. To assess this detail on your watch, you're going to need someone who is trained to QC the watch to look at it or look at examples.
It is difficult because in photographs it's hard to determine if it's the right size. There are things that someone can tell you to look for, but fuck if I know the lettering has been 2.5X.
However in person and especially next to an authentic- mine is obviously more difficult to read.
'''Hand Alignment'''
Refers to the correct positioning and alignment of the watch hands (hour, minute, and second hands) on the watch dial.
# Hour Hand Alignment: The hour hand should be precisely aligned with the hour markers on the dial. It should point directly at the respective hour markers without any misalignment or deviation. If the hour hand is misaligned, it can lead to difficulties in reading the time accurately.
# Minute Hand Alignment: The minute hand should be aligned with the minute markers on the dial. It should point directly at the minute markers and move smoothly without any catching or rubbing against other elements on the watch dial.
# Second Hand Alignment: The second hand, if present in the watch, should move smoothly and align accurately with the second markers or indices on the dial. It should sweep around the dial in a manner that resembles the "movement" of your watch.
# Centering: Hand alignment also involves ensuring that all three hands are properly centered on their respective axes or pivots. They should be balanced and evenly spaced around the central axis of the watch.
'''Hand Alignment for a Rolex Lady's Datejust 31:''' Basically the same as any watch and whats written above. You are looking to see if your shit ticks right. With the diamond index's this becomes a little irrelevant since there aren't any markers to check the alignment, but you can still assess the hands to make sure nothing is wonky.
'''Bezel'''
A bezel is a functional and decorative component that surrounds the watch crystal (glass face) and holds it securely in place. The bezel is typically located on the top of the watch case, surrounding the face. Bezels can be made from various materials, such as stainless steel, gold, ceramic, precious stones. Depending on the watch type, there are different types of bezels, each serving unique purposes:
* '''Protective Bezel''': Many watches have a protective bezel that covers and secures the watch crystal. This bezel prevents the crystal from being scratched or damaged due to everyday wear and tear.
* '''Rotating Bezel:''' Some sports and diving watches feature a rotating bezel, usually with minute markings or a dive scale. This bezel can be rotated unidirectionally to measure elapsed time or to keep track of remaining time during an activity.
* '''Tachymeter Bezel''': Certain chronograph watches have a tachymeter bezel. This bezel is marked with a scale that allows the wearer to measure speed based on the time it takes to travel a known distance.
* '''Countdown Bezel:''' Some watches designed for specific sports or activities have a countdown bezel. It allows the wearer to set a specific time duration and count down to zero.
* '''GMT Bezel:''' Watches with GMT (Greenwich Mean Time) or multiple time zone functions might have a bezel with 24-hour markings. This bezel assists in tracking the time in different time zones.
* ✨'''Decorative Bezel'''✨: In luxury and fashion watches, the bezel may serve a purely decorative purpose. It can be adorned with precious stones, diamonds, or intricate designs to enhance the watch's aesthetics.
'''Bezel for a Rolex Lady's Datejust 31''': A bezel for the Datejust can be either fluted or smooth. I personally think the smooth bezel is the ugliest thing I've ever seen, but who I am to inform you that you're making a terrible choice. There's also the iced out bezel- I'm indifferent.
However, worth noting- the fluted bezel only comes in solid gold. The smooth bezel has various options for the metal type. Even if you get an authentic steel Datejust 31 the fluted bezel will be in white gold.
I haven't been able to find much information on determining the quality of your bezel. you might have a bad bezel. I asked r/RepTime about bad bezels, no one has responded... Let me know if y'all have any more information on assessing bezels in general.
'''Solid End Links (SELs)'''
Refer to the solid metal links that connect the watch case to the watch bracelet or strap. They are a feature commonly found in high-quality and luxury watches. The end links are located at the lugs of the watch case, which are the protruding extensions on both sides of the case where the bracelet or strap attaches.
In watches with solid end links, the metal links are precisely fitted to the specific shape and curvature of the watch case lugs. This results in a seamless and precise connection between the case and the bracelet, providing a comfortable and secure fit on the wrist. Solid is referring to the fit of the first link being tightly secured without gaps or movement- not *solid*- like good- the way I initially interpreted it...
'''Solid End Links (SELs) for a Rolex Lady's Datejust 31''': Honestly go to the accuracy assessment portion down below it will be a lot easier to see what I'm trying to explain than writing it out.
'''Timegrapher numbers'''
Also known as Timegrapher readings or measurements, are specific values obtained from a timegrapher, which is a specialized watch testing instrument used by watchmakers and technicians to assess the accuracy and performance of the time on the watch.
The timegrapher measures various aspects of a watch's movement and provides valuable information about its health and timekeeping capabilities. Some of the common timegrapher numbers include:
* Rate (in seconds per day): The rate is the most crucial measurement and represents the watch's accuracy. It indicates how many seconds the watch gains or loses over a 24-hour period. A rate of 0 seconds per day means the watch is keeping perfect time, while positive values indicate it is running fast, and negative values mean it is running slow.
* Amplitude (in degrees): Amplitude measures the arc through which the balance wheel swings. It reflects the health of the watch's movement and its ability to maintain accurate timekeeping. Proper amplitude ensures that the balance wheel has enough energy to perform its oscillations effectively.
* Beat Error (in milliseconds): Beat error measures the consistency of the balance wheel's back-and-forth motion. A low beat error value indicates good stability, while higher values might suggest issues with the escapement.
* Beat Rate (in beats per hour): Beat rate represents the frequency at which the balance wheel oscillates. For most mechanical watches, the standard beat rate is 28,800 or 21,600 beats per hour.
* Lift Angle (in degrees): Lift angle is specific to watches with certain escapements (e.g., lever escapement). It measures the angle through which the escape wheel moves when releasing energy to the balance wheel.
* Beat Number (in beats per hour): Beat number indicates the number of vibrations (beats) the watch's balance wheel makes in one hour.
* Power Reserve (in hours): In some advanced timegraphers, the power reserve can be measured to determine how long the watch movement will run before needing to be wound again.
Timegrapher readings provide insights into the condition of a watch movement, helping watchmakers diagnose issues and regulate the watch for optimal accuracy. If you go to a legit TD they will take a picture of the timegrapher data so you know its gucci. Usually a rep can run -/+10 seconds off. Don't sweat it, even auths need to be serviced to be maintained, a Rolex typically has a precision about -/+ 2 seconds.
Values for the AUTHENTIC Rolex Datejust 31 are below. Some of the values listed above will be relative to the watch's health.
{| class="wikitable"
!Amplitude
!275 and 315 degrees
|-
|Beat Rate (BPH)
|28.800 BPH
|-
|Lift Angle
|52 degrees
|-
|Precision
| -2/+2 sec/day
|}
'''Timegrapher numbers for a Rolex Lady's Datejust 31''': In addition to the above, the movement of the watch is 3135. This is the most common Rolex movement fitted into multiple sports watches. It is a three hand with date function displaying hours, minutes, seconds and the date. It is widely regarded as one of the wonders of horology boosting 31 jewels, and a 50 hour power reserve. The 3135 movement began in 1988 and has been fitted into the following watches: Oyster Perpetual Date, Datejust, Submariner, Sea-Dweller, Yacht-Master and the Deep Sea Sea Dweller.
You're not going to get that. You can find something really close to that, but it's literally like wanting your flap to be identical to auth. go buy the real thing if you want the thing that makes the company renown.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/15bdeu9/super_newbie_guide/ Source]
== Guide to Quality Checking (QC) a Replica Watch ==
<div class="et_pb_tab_content">'''QC TOOL: '''https://watchqc.com/</div>
<div class="et_pb_tab_content"><p>'''Junk & Entry Tier QC guide'''</p>
<div class="_3xX726aBn29LDbsDtzr_6E _1Ap4F5maDtT1E1YuCiaO0r D3IL3FD0RFy_mkKLPwL4" data-click-id="text"><div class="_292iotee39Lmt0MkQZ2hPV RichTextJSON-root"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">It needs to be pointed out that ChinaTime level sellers will do a number of things if asked for QC shots of a watch you’re interested in buying. None of which are done consistently by any of them, nor is there a regulated process.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This includes:</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">1. A quick view video of a watch you have requested, usually flipped around while being held to show different angles. This is usually one they happen to have on hand (sellers don’t hold on to stock as it’s too dangerous – they source per order)</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">2. A video they send to multiple buyers (often exactly the same video) of the same watch from the same batch.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">3. Photos you’ve probably already seen before used of the watch on multiple different dhgate stores and can easily recognise. These are used by many sellers as they simply don’t have any other photos of that particular watch.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">4. Some low quality phone photos of a couple angles. Usually taken when they have one around or have taken before to send QC pics to another buyer.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">4. Photos or videos showing you the actual watch you are being sent just before it gets packaged up with your postage label. These are often done after you’ve ordered and paid and it’s about to be sent out.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The ChinaTime QC process is <strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">different</strong> to the QC process on [https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/ r/RepTime] where sellers show you the exact watch you have bought, allowing for feedback, RL (Red Lighting aka Not happy with quality so sending it back) or GL (Green Lighting aka I am happy with this watch so let’s fucking gooo).</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">ChinaTime level sellers shift a high volume of product in short timeframes.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Don’t expect a RepTime level QC process for your $80 shitter.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">'''Higher Tier QC Guide'''</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Before we jump into QC, I want to clarify some of my vernacular when discussing replica watches:</p></div></div></div>'''Flaw:''' A difference between a replica in its attempt to imitate the genuine watch (e.g. incorrect hand stack on a GMF BLRO Pepsi)
'''Defect:''' An error during manufacturing or assembly that deviates from the specified requirements (e.g. crooked indices on an ARF 114300)
Okay, now that we’ve got that out of the way, in order to understand what QC is, let’s start with what the QC process ''isn’t''.
The QC process is not:
* To compare how close the replica is to genuine
* Window shopping
* An opportunity to correct specific flaws or defects on a replica
'''QC is not an opportunity to compare how close the replica is to genuine'''
This should take place ''before'' QC during the research about which model to buy. All replicas have flaws. “Super reps” have flaws from genuine. Even genuine watches have flaws! It’s your responsibility as the purchaser to do your due diligence and find watch models from factories that have flaws that are tolerable to you. You should become intimately aware of the flaws of the models you are considering. The forums and this subreddit contain many images of actual watches people receive.
Use the search bar and get well acquainted with the model you plan on purchasing. This way when your QC pictures arrive you aren’t startled when the date font is too bold – looking at you ARF 126334, or some other well-known flaw compared to genuine. If you’re looking for near perfect, buy genuine. Buying a replica watch is a fun experience. Let it be.
'''QC is not window shopping'''
Trusted Dealers are running a business. Side note: I’m not exactly sure how the logistics of their business functions, but if a TD or other more knowledgeable person wants to chime in below it would be a happy learning experience for me and everyone else. The remainder of this entry will go on my assumptions as to how the business functions.
TD’s buy replica watches from the factories. They pay for the replicas out of the money you paid them for your order. This is why payment precedes QC pictures. Now they have invested in inventory that needs to be sold. Some inventory moves quicker than others due to popularity (SS 116610LN, AP ROO, etc.) so they probably have a continuous flow of demand for some of these watches, but they don’t really “stock” watches in a traditional sense and definitely not for less popular models.
They source each watch you order individually. When you decide to RL a watch you’re preventing them from selling stock that they’ve already used capital to purchase.  Essentially, you’re frustrating their cash flow. They’re now stuck with a watch they need to wait for someone else to order before they can make their money back. This makes it difficult on the TD, harms their business, and may result in the TD refusing to sell you a different watch.
They also have to go and source ''another'' watch for you (consuming more capital and eating into their margin). It is my understanding that ''sometimes'' they can return a watch to the factories if it is defective, but this is where my knowledge of the business isn’t clear. Regardless, the best-case scenario for TD’s is returning a watch and spending a lot of time and effort sourcing another watch instead of fulfilling a new order (opportunity cost), and the worst case is being stuck with a watch that has nothing wrong with it and having to wait for a new order before getting paid for it. That’s a lose-lose scenario for the TD.
What is important to remember here is that the factories and TD’s aren’t in the best conditions, nor are they participating in legal activities and are under constant scrutiny from their respective governments and law enforcement agencies. Replica watch "factories" aren’t large buildings with assembly lines.
Typically they are small operations that can be easily moved or hidden from police/governments hunting for them. Factories and TD’s have a lot at stake doing business with us and we should ensure we properly acknowledge that and use their conditions as the context for how a replica watch ''gets in'' QC pictures. It’s quite a marvel all things considered. Caveat: I am well aware that TD’s sometimes try to hide very obvious manufacturing defects to move undesirable inventory, we’ll cover that more below. Be patient.
I’m not saying to ''never'' RL a watch. There are good reasons to do so that we’ll discuss below. I am saying that you should carefully consider the defect on the watch you are presented and decide for yourself if you can live with them. Remember that the images you’re seeing are close up of an object whose size is measured in ''millimeters.'' Many defects can’t be seen at wrist level or without close inspection. There is a good reason to carefully consider the decision to RL. QC is not a carousel of watches, rather it’s like a slot machine or a game of Russian roulette because the next one the TD can procure could have worse defects than the watch you RL’d.
I’ve never tried this, but If you RL the watch in your QC pictures I don’t think the TD will sell it to you if the RL’d watch ends up being better than the following watch. So there’s a risk with RL’ing. Keep in mind that manufacturing happens in batches and there is a chance that most of a batch has similar defects. You never know what you’re going to get. Think slot machine, not carousel. That’s part of the fun! Sometimes you hit it big and your rep doesn’t have any serious defects and looks flawless. Other times you’ve gotta swing the RL hammer, but only if absolutely necessary.
This segues well into our next topic.
'''QC is not an opportunity to correct specific flaws or defects on a replica'''
I see a lot of new people have a misunderstanding when reviewing their QC pictures that if they ask the TD to correct a specific flaw that it will be corrected. This is not the case. You either accept the watch presented or you RL and are presented with an entirely new watch. They can’t realign indices or center dates in a date window. Nor should they. Their business is simple: source the “genuine” replica watch you request and ensure it is shipped and delivered to you.
That’s it.
They make money sourcing and shipping watches. TD’s exist to protect us from a veritable ocean of scam sites that sell us DHgate watches for thousands of dollars. Buying through a TD means the watch you receive will be made by Noob, ARF, V6F, etc. and that you will receive it despite customs seizures.
They are not watch smiths.
They are not watchmakers.
They are not jewelers.
They are dealers.


== Guide to r/Chinatime Quality Checking QC a Watch ==
Dealers that are trusted because they have a multitude of historical transactions and a reputation that they will deliver “authentic” replica watches from the factories they advertise.
<div class="et_pb_tab_content">'''QC TOOL: '''[https://watchqc.com/ https://watchqc.com/]</div><div class="et_pb_tab_content"><p>'''r/ChinaTime tier QC guide'''</p><div class="_3xX726aBn29LDbsDtzr_6E _1Ap4F5maDtT1E1YuCiaO0r D3IL3FD0RFy_mkKLPwL4" data-click-id="text"><div class="_292iotee39Lmt0MkQZ2hPV RichTextJSON-root"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">I’ve seen a lot of QC posts and people arguing about the quality of QC videos/pics from sellers lately.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">It needs to be pointed out that ChinaTime level sellers will do a number of things if asked for QC shots of a watch you’re interested in buying. None of which are done consistently by any of them, nor is there a regulated process.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This includes:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">1. A quick view video of a watch you have requested, usually flipped around while being held to show different angles. This is usually one they happen to have on hand (sellers don’t hold on to stock as it’s too dangerous – they source per order)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">2. A video they send to multiple buyers (often exactly the same video) of the same watch from the same batch.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">3. Photos you’ve probably already seen before used of the watch on multiple different dhgate stores and can easily recognise. These are used by many sellers as they simply don’t have any other photos of that particular watch.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">4. Some low quality phone photos of a couple angles. Usually taken when they have one around or have taken before to send QC pics to another buyer.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">4. Photos or videos showing you the actual watch you are being sent just before it gets packaged up with your postage label. These are often done after you’ve ordered and paid and it’s about to be sent out.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The ChinaTime QC process is <strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">different</strong> to the QC process on [https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/ r/RepTime] where sellers show you the exact watch you have bought, allowing for feedback, RL (Red Lighting aka Not happy with quality so sending it back) or GL (Green Lighting aka I am happy with this watch so let’s fucking gooo).</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">ChinaTime level sellers shift a high volume of product in short timeframes.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Don’t expect a RepTime level QC process for your $80 shitter.</p></div></div></div>


== Guide to r/RepTime Quality Checking QC a Watch ==
Okay. Now that we’ve cleared up some common misconceptions with QC pictures, where did the concept come from? After doing some digging on RWI, the concept of QC photos was first introduced around 2009 by a previous TD that, from what I can tell, has since ceased operations. QC photos are an inconvenience for the dealer and replicas used to be sent ''without'' QC photos; however, in the years following their introduction we have become accustomed to them and now expect them. It benefits TD’s by giving customers a unique experience, for example, PureTime does waterproof testing in addition to photos.
<p>'''QC TOOL: '''[https://watchqc.com/ https://watchqc.com/]</p>
<p>Copy and paste this template and complete the details so that your watch can be QC'd.</p>
<p>Below are example answers.</p>
<p>Change the example answers to your own.</p>
<p>Dealer name: Jtime</p>
<p>Factory name: [ZF]</p>
<p>Model name (& version number): 15400 v2 with A3120 clone</p>
<p>Price paid: $508</p>
<p>Album Links: [sample album link]</p>
<p>Index alignment: looks good - is the 6 crooked?</p>
<p>Dial Printing: Audemars is misspelled</p>
<p>Date Wheel alignment/printing: ZF date disc technicians are at it again</p>
<p>Hand Alignment: so perfect it would make a watch smith cry</p>
<p>Bezel: brushed to perfection</p>
<p>Solid End Links (SELs): n/a</p>
<p>Timegrapher numbers: looks good</p>
<p>Anything else you notice: the tapisserie isn't the same as gen</p>


<p>Post on [https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTimeQC r/RepTimeQC]</p>
That’s a bit of competitive differentiation in customer experience if waterproofing is of interest to you. It can also help the TD’s to avert negative interactions with their customers by allowing us to see what we will be receiving before actually receiving it. This practice is unlike any other eCommerce practice and I can’t think of another online transaction where I get a preview of the literal unit I will receive before buying except maybe automobiles. And even then, sometimes not. Hopefully, this helps you to understand that we should be grateful we receive QC pictures at all and to give credit where credit is due with the TD’s. There aren’t other eCommerce businesses that operate this way.


== Guide to Watch Movements ==
What is the purpose of QC? QC Photos are:
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><p>'''Common movements used in rep watches'''</p><p>'''Non-chronos (i.e. if the watch has subdials, they will not work in the same way as the gen)'''</p><p>1. 21J/DG2813 (note that despite the “21J” description these movements usually run 23 jewels). This is a generic term used to cover a wide variety of cheap Chinese movements – some are better than others, but as a general rule they are low-beat (21,600vph / 6 ‘ticks’ per second) movements, very cheaply built (from as little as $7 for the whole movement) but generally reliable and easy to live with. Usually automatic, but occasionally hand wind, dependent on the watch. A lot of really nice budget watches come with these fitted and whilst the sweep isn’t as smooth as, say, a gen Rolex, they’re damned good value for money and can just be thrown away and replaced if they break or need a service.</p><p>There’s also the DG4813 variant, which is high-beat but this has become very difficult to obtain of late, so is not commonly seen. It has largely been replaced by the Z2 (see below)</p><p>2. Z2 aka ‘high beat 2813’ aka various other names. Some have suggested that this is one to avoid, but it’s not quite that clear cut. Basically a cheap 28,800vph alternative to the “Asian ETA” movements, these are occasionally swapped into existing models by the factories without informing the dealers. Reliability&nbsp;''can be''&nbsp;okay – provided you get a good one. The real issue is that there are no parts available, so servicing can be a problem. The Asian ETAs are a&nbsp;'''much'''&nbsp;better choice, but these are maybe worth considering if the price is right – just don’t be conned into buying high-priced reps with ’em, it ain’t worth it.</p><p>3. Asian ‘clone’ ETA (A2824/A2836 & variants): These are literally copies/clones of the equivalent Swiss (ETA) automatic movements. Generally high quality – although not as well built as the Swiss equivalents – but reliable and with parts generally available (which makes servicing an easier proposition than some other movements). High beat (28,800) and great value. Probably the best choice of movement for higher-quality reps as they give the smooth sweep found in most gen watches</p><p>4. Swiss ETA (2836/2824 as above): Supposedly the genuine ETA (owned by swatch group) swiss automatic movements. This is a complete lottery. ETA have not been supplying ebauches outside Swatch group for several years now. There are NO new ETA movements in reps any more – only refurbished (usually with Asian parts). On top of that, as anyone who’s been in the game for a while should know, factories tell the dealer the spec of the watch they’re producing – and the dealers then use that for their sales pitch. That spec often then changes dependent on what parts the factories have available on a particular day – about which they DO NOT inform the dealers. Given that dealers DO NOT take the back off the watch during QC (nor should they), they’re as much in the dark about it as you. At best you get a refurbished (i.e. used) movement with asian parts in it. I wouldn’t recommend spending extra for ETA in a rep these days – more often than not, you’ll be getting an asian clone.</p><p>5. Sellita: As mentioned above, supply of ETA movements is getting very difficult as Swatch group are no longer selling ebauches outside their own group of companies. Sellita are another Swiss company who make a very similar range of high-quality movements. We’ve seen a few reps with “Swiss ETA” being supplied with Sellitas, but they’re fairly rare.</p><p>6. Rolex 3135 copy (and other Rolex clone movements). This is an Asian clone ETA automatic movement with modified rotor and bridges to make it look more like the real thing. It’s not going to convince anybody who knows their Rolex movements and tends to be less reliable than the alternatives (as well as being more expensive!). There are newer versions beginning to appear which are a little more reliable and look closer to the gen, but they are still near impossible to service and generally inferior to the clone ETAs. Rolex have closed casebacks anyhow, so I really don’t see the point in paying the extra for what is, effectively, just a higher-priced and less reliable Asian clone movement.</p><p>There is one notable exception to the above – the Yuki-sourced movement used by JF in their new (as of 2017) high-end subs. This is a proper copy of the Rolex movements (to the extent of being compatible with a lot of gen parts) and is much better quality than the modified Asian ETA-based clones otherwise supplied in reps. A good movement and well worth consideration.</p><p>7. Miyota 9015. With the disappearance of gen ETA movements, some reps are now coming with Japanese Miyota-sourced movements. The 9015 is a case in point – a high-beat 28,800vph 25 jewel movement that is an excellent alternative to ETA or clone ETA models mentioned above. Highly reliable and very good quality. Don’t hesitate.</p><p>8. Miyota 8215. As above, a solid workhorse movement. The only gotcha is that the second hand on these movements tends to stutter a little and is therefore a lot less smooth than the 9015 or, say, an Asian 2836 clone. The amount of stutter is dependent on the weight of the second hand – the heavier/longer the hand, the worse it’s going to be. I’d certainly avoid this movement on watches such as Tudors which tend to have “snowflake” hands. Although the 8215 is reliable, for this reason I would tend to think carefully before buying a watch with this movement.</p><p>9. Sea-Gull. Sea-Gull are a chinese maker of both movements and watches. Quality is very close to that of the Swiss and Japanese manufacturers and they’re generally a very safe buy – they make clones of several well-known movements (such as the 6497) as well as their own designs. The ST2555 has lately been turning up in quite a few reps. As with Miyota, they’re a good choice. Don’t hesitate.</p><p>10. A6497/A6498: An Asian copy of the Unitas 6497 or 6498 movement. Common in Panerai and various others – it’s an ultra-reliable yet inexpensive hand wind movement available with or without swan-neck regulator. Note, however, that there are several different grades and some are better built than others. However, they’re easy to service and generally bombproof. Either 18,000vph (5 ‘ticks’ per second) or 21600 vph (6 ‘ticks’ per second) but it is hard to tell the difference visually due to the short seconds hand (where fitted). It can come with or without a seconds hand, but usually with. If it has a seconds hand, the 6497 has the seconds hand opposite the crown (i.e. at 9 if the crown is at 3) whereas the 6498 has the seconds 90 degrees to the left of the crown (i.e. at 6 if the crown is at 3).</p><p>11. Swiss Unitas 6497/6498: Again, a hand wind movement. They used to be found in some higher-end Panerai reps but that has now ended since ETA quit supplying ebauches outside Swatch Group some years back.</p><p>12. Molnija: Not common these days, but DSN and others have used them on occasion – mainly for vintage Panerai models. This is actually a Russian-built descendant of the Cortebert (latterly Rolex) hand-wind pocketwatch movements used by Panerai and others in the 40s-50s. Very high quality but parts can be tricky to obtain. Functionally similar to the 6497 above and generally reliable, but less robust than the 6497.</p><p>13. Asian 52010 aka Liaoning SL6601. This movement has started to appear in the IWC 5007 and could, of course, turn up in other reps with similar functions in due course. It supports secs@9, PR @3 plus date. Liaoning are another well-established Chinese maker of movements – quality is generally good, although parts can be difficult to obtain. Should be relatively easy to service and reliability appears to be decent.</p><p>Then there are a few that don’t fit any of the above groups. Movements advertised as “Asian 23J with power reserve” being probably the most common. These can vary from being basic 21J’s with an added module for the PR complication to something like Sea Gull’s 23J PR movement – the latter being of rather better quality than most other low-beat autos and likely to be long-term reliable. You’ll also see ‘Asian 35J” movements advertised fairly frequently – which can also be from a range of sources but are often higher-quality generic Chinese movements similar to the Sea-Gull mentioned above – not as good as a normal Asian clone or other mainstream movement and generally low-beat, but can be good value for money in the right rep. One last oddity worth mentioning is the A7750 as described below. This is sometimes used as a regular automatic movement with the chrono complications removed (most often in Panerai autos). In this form it is much less fragile and many of the caveats mentioned elsewhere no longer apply. Likewise you will – even more rarely – find the same non-chrono A7750 with the auto-wind mechanism removed. This essentially removes the fragile parts that can be damaged by hand-winding on the normal version and is, likewise, not subject to most of the caveats noted elsewhere.</p><p>'''Chrono movements:'''</p><p>Japan OS chrono (aka Japan Quartz aka a variety of other names): Basically cheap quartz chrono movements (i.e. battery powered). Reliable, great timekeepers, cheap. There’s a couple of varieties with different features, but quality is the same. If you can live with a ticking chrono hand (and seconds subdial) rather than the smooth sweep provided by autos, then there’s no reason not to buy one of these. Note that there are ‘smooth sweep’ quartz movements available and they very occasionally show up in reps. They’re a bit more expensive than regular quartz, but good quality. The smooth sweep applies to center seconds (i.e. the chrono hand) only, however – not running seconds in a subdial.</p><p>A7750 (occasionally called Asian Valjoux 7750): The standard automatic chrono movement used in a vast range of replica watches. Usually high-beat (28,800vph), but there is an older low-beat (21,600 vph) variant which still pops up now and again. Occasionally converted to hand-wind and also used in some non-chrono reps. Can be fragile and is difficult to service due to the lack of available spares. When serviced and running properly, however, it’s solid and works well. See the separate sticky about caveats as there are problems with some adaptations to this movement:&nbsp;[http://anonym.to/?http://anonym.to?http://anonym.to?http://anonym.to?http://www.replica-watches-guide.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6101 http://www.replica-watches-guide.com/forum…?showtopic=6101]</p><p>A7753: This is a variant on the A7750 and not a true clone of the Swiss 7753. Its primary difference from the A7750 is that its native position for subdials is 3, 6, 9 as opposed to 6, 9,12 for the 7750. The resulting lack of transfer gearing needed to move the subdials into the more common 3, 6, 9 position reduces the distance between datewheel and dial eliminating the ‘sunken datewheel’ seen on many reps. These movement also frequently feature a pusher (usually flush) at the 10 position which operates quick-set date. So far it has only made it into a handful of fairly recent models (notably Panerai). In other respects it shares the same strengths and weaknesses with its A7750 sibling, but the lack of transfer gearing does make it a little more robust in some cases.</p><p>A7751: This is a goodie as it replicates all the functions of the genuine Swiss movement including working moonphase complication. Found in a limited number of reps (notably a couple of Longines and Patek models). Should be treated gently but generally appears to be reliable.</p><p>Swiss Valjoux 7750: Used to appear in high-priced reps occasionally, but no longer available to the rep makers since ETA quit supplying ebauches to makers outside Swatch Group.</p><p>Copy Venus (or sometimes inaccurately described as Lemania). Actually a Sea Gull ST19 – fundamentally the same as the original Swiss Venus movement as Sea-Gull bought the original tooling. This is an excellent handwind chrono movement. Very reliable and feels like quality. The most robust chrono movement in reps outside of quartz options. Don’t hesitate.</p><p>[https://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?/topic/6930-movements-found-in-replicas-a-quick-faq/ Source]</p>
*3Hz is also called 21600bph or 6bps, 4Hz is 28800bph or 8bps.<br>The reason for this disparity (3Hz vs 6bps or 4Hz vs 8bps) is that the balance wheel advances the second hand both on the clockwise turn and counterclockwise turn, so a full turn cycle is 2 beats.


*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Chinese 21J, Chinese 23J – no-name movements, based on DG2813 (if you’re lucky) or the Chinese Standard Movement and company, that the Chinese have perfected… mostly when it comes to cost of production – they can make a shitty versions for under 10 dollars, but you cannot expect any kind of reliability from it. The worst versions can be found in Chinese street reps and tend to break after a few months of use. If you ever see something like a Daytona with days of the week and month indicator on the subdials, you can bet it sports one of those bad boys.<br>Some of the more reputable factories sometimes use movement called that and you can expect them to be of a passable to good quality then, but it’s still hit or miss.<br>Most of them are 3Hz, some are 4Hz.</p>
* To ensure you will be receiving the correct factory and model of watch ordered
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">DG2813 or other DG-something – firstly, it still might be the shitty movements described above (especially if called A2813), them being clones of DG movements, which are in turn clones of old movements from Citizen. If you get an actual DG2813, you should not expect amazing quality, but it is very reasonable for it to work for years (accuracy is another thing though).<br>Most of them are 3Hz, some are 4Hz (e.g. DG4813).</p>
* To find clear defects that do not meet ''your'' ''subjective'' standard
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">A2824, A2836 – the best of the best – ETA used to have factories in China, so the Chinese know how to produce the movements. The materials are somewhat worse than ETA required and the quality control is nowhere near what you would find in a gen Breitling or such, but they are reliable, any watchsmith can service or repair them, and replacements are freely available anywhere.<br>They beat at 4Hz.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">A2892 – Chinese copy of a newer, thinner “version” of ETA 2824 – good movement, but way more rare and as such possibly slightly lower quality than the above two. Most of them will probably come from Sea-Gull, which would be good, but they might be QC rejects.<br>They beat at 4Hz.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">A6497/A6498 – clone of ETA Unitas 6497/6498, great movement, simple, handwound, you are most likely to find one in a Panerai rep and you can’t really go wrong with this one.<br>They beat at 3Hz.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Swiss ETA 2824/2836/others – hit or miss – it depends on how the repmakers sourced it and how they stored it. I have a rep with a swiss movement and it performs beautifully, other people report the opposite – problems and having to replace. Could also get a Sellita instead of ETA (which is in no way a bad thing, Sellita is an excellent Swiss movement manufacturer and a former contractor for ETA).<br>They beat at 4Hz unless vintage (check specific model) or Unitas 6497 – 3Hz.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">A775X (X is placeholder for other digits) – ETA Valjoux 775X clone, used in most rep chronographs. More costly to service and harder to source than other Asian ETAs, also more likely to break – all of this because it’s more complex. Check if the positions of the subdials were modified compared to the original – if yes, that’s a major yellow flag when it comes to relability and servicability. There are exceptions – ZF IWC chronos for example started using a sensible mod that you can safely go for.<br>They beat at 4Hz.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">SA3135 – a modded A2836, may accept a genuine Rolex datewheel. Possibly the worst option you can get in a Submariner.<br>They beat at 4Hz.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">SH3135, SH3131, VR3135 – Chinese “superclone” rolex movements, harder to service than A2836, but a lot of people prefer them because they can fit a genuine datedisc on them (not SH3131 because it has no date). Not actual superclones (as in there are differences between those and actual Rolex movements), but can be swapped for a genuine movement if you can get your hands on one.<br>They beat at 4Hz.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">(S)A3186/(S)A3187 – modified asian ETA with contraptions that make it impossible to service and faulty. Best avoided, but currently the only way to get correct hand stack (as in order of hands seconds -&gt; minutes -&gt; 24hr -&gt; 12hr) and setting method in Rolex GMT.<br>They beat at 4Hz.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">A4130 – a weird mod of A7750 with subdials moved and possibly decorated, which is pointless in a closed-caseback watch. Comments about modified A7750s apply.<br>They beat at 4Hz.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">SA4130 – either a complete superclone of Rolex 4130, or an ARF mod of A7750 – check if it’s from Noob Factory and expensive – if yes, its the former, otherwise the latter. ARF SA4130 simply doesn’t use the minutes and hours subdials (they are frozen) so there is little to no problem with added torque. If it’s not a new expensive Noob or ARF, it’s probably A4130 (described above) with an S tacked in front of the name.<br>They beat at 4Hz.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">A8900/A8500 (in Omega reps) – movements modified to look like Omega calibers. Used to be modified ETA clones or even modified Chinese 21J/23J, but lately VSF started boasting a “superclone” version that gives the same functionality as gen. Some people seem to overhype those “superclones” as actual complete cloned movements – this is not actually the case, but they are reportedly more reliable than SA3186/SA3187s which strive to provide a similar functionality. Also, no rep Omega movements have the correct beatrate currently (3.5Hz), none have actual co-axial escapement (to my knowledge), and they use overlays with fake jewels, so take VSF’s “almost the same as genuine movement” with a grain of salt.<br>They beat at 3Hz or 4Hz depending on the movement used as a base. VSF “superclones” beat at 4Hz.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Sea-Gull movements – mostly good movements, but the versions used in reps are not exactly high end (more likely factory QC rejects or lower-tier versions).<br>Check specific model to know beatrate.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Miyota movements – mostly good movements, but the versions used in reps are not exactly high end (more likely factory QC rejects or lower-tier versions). People were high on Miyota 9015 at first (it’s thin like ETA 2892) because it made some thin reps possible, going as far as putting it in Tudor Pelagos for example, but in the end a lot of Miyota9015 reps have noisy rotors (unidirectional rotors can rotate in one direction freely so it’s harder to silence), so their expansion into the rep industry has been halted somewhat. Miyota 8125 is mostly an entry-level movement and often found in Submariner homages for example.<br>Another thing worth mentioning is that SevenFriday reps use Miyota movements for a different reason entirely – the gens also do.<br>9015 beats at 4Hz, 8125 beats at 3Hz, movements in SevenFridays beat at 3Hz (at least all of those I know about).</p>
<p>Written by&nbsp;[https://www.reddit.com/user/eposseeker/ u/eposseeker]</p></div></div></div>


== Which Factories Make the Best Models ==
'''QC is to ensure you will be receiving the correct factory and model of watch ordered'''
<p>''Last updated 25 Oct 2022''</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">In an attempt to help our community, many users have helped cultivate this guide. This is only meant&nbsp;<em class="_7s4syPYtk5hfUIjySXcRE">as a guide</em>&nbsp;and all decisions about a specific model and subtle differences aren't discussed in detail here. The intent here is to help you if you're looking for a generalized consensus of "Who makes the best submariner?". As factories frequently change and close down, I am hoping to keep this as updated as possible. Factories are listed in order of best to worst, if multiple factories are listed.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">As always, please order your watch through a trusted dealer&nbsp;[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/9wbqhg/guide_intro_to_replica_watches/ in the intro thread], and have fun. If you feel something needs updated, feel free to PM me, I'm always open to edit this list. Big shout out to&nbsp;[https://www.reddit.com/u/Breitlingboi/ u/Breitlingboi]&nbsp;for his&nbsp;[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/mervzl/ultimate_who_makes_the_best_guide/ original guide]&nbsp;and enthusiasm.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">On a budget?&nbsp;[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/ydj6h7/guide_best_budget_midtier_replicas_250400/ See the guide of reps $250-$400.]</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><em class="_7s4syPYtk5hfUIjySXcRE"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Current brands covered:</strong></em></p>
1. Rolex


2. Patek Philippe
This is important! If you ordered a ZZF 116610LN V2 it is important that you receive that model from that factory and not a Noob or ARF 116610LN because it will be difficult to make an exchange or other remediations due to the logistical nightmare that is the international business of counterfeit goods. You want the right watch delivered ''the first time''. Sometimes there are mix-ups or errors and I suppose there could be a more nefarious motive, but that has never been my experience and would certainly be a huge outlier. TD’s are trusted for a reason.


3. Audemars Piguet
That doesn’t make them perfect or free from making clerical errors given their working conditions and language barriers. If you aren’t sure you are receiving the correct model or factory, post it and ask! We love to help. If you ordered an ARF 116500 Panda, but are shown an ARF 116520 white dial, you’ll know to ask the TD to please present you with the correct model you requested. Please be courteous and respectful. I’m sure they’ll be happy to do so. Remember they still must go and return the incorrect watch if they can and go source the correct watch. Be patient.


4. Vacheron Constantin
'''QC is to find clear defects that do not meet''' '''''your''''' '''''subjective''''' '''standard'''


5. Richard Mille
This is a tricky topic to address. You are looking to identify defects with the replica that aren’t up to your standard. You should be looking for things like crooked indices, alignment of bezel or dial elements like coronets or logos, missing lume, offset chrono hands, and other defects. Also check to see if there are any visible signs of cosmetic damage like scratches, scuffs, etc. on the case, bracelet, clasp, and other watch components.


6. Omega
Be aware that TD’s are ''dealers'' or ''salesmen''. They want to sell watches, even ones with severe defects. I’ve seen TD’s move the watch hands to cover a crooked logo or hold the watch at strange angles to make alignment defects look less severe. You can request additional pictures with watch hands in different positions. You can ask for a straight-on photo. This is acceptable and should be done if you have suspicions. Be prepared to wait for additional pictures though. There shouldn’t be obstacles to you being able to ''see'' defects, but once you’ve identified defects what do you do then?


7. Gem set 'Iced Out' Watches
Now, here is the difficult part. What should you RL and what should you live with? For me, I air on the side of GL all the time. This means I look at QC pictures with the intent of GL'ing and then have to find something outlandish to shift my opinion. Excessive RL’ing can harm the livelihood of the TD’s and ultimately affect the price of replicas in general. I also have a realistic idea of the standard of quality I should expect from a replica ''before'' I place my order.


8. Cartier<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF"><br></div>
For a first time or inexperienced buyer, this may not be the case, especially if they haven’t done enough due diligence on the model they’re purchasing.


=== '''Rolex''' ===
What do I RL? Indices that are egregiously crooked, date wheels that are excessively off-center making them difficult to read, etc. Essentially anything that will bother me to the point of not wearing the watch. This is very subjective and hopefully, your expectations will improve with experience. I highly recommend that before you make a purchase, find QC pictures of the watch you will be ordering and see what others have GL’d and RL’d. Focus primarily on the GL’s. You’ll see many slight defects that get approved. If your watch ends up having them, please GL.


*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Submariner</strong></p>
You’ve seen the defects. You know they are present in other watches. Keep the replica economy going. Learn to love and accept these discrepancies. These small defects make the watch unique and many of them can be modded away if they wind up seriously bothering you (crooked indices replaced by genuine or modded dials, etc.) Look and see what ''experienced users'' RL. This will help you to establish good expectations and what justifies RL'ing a watch.
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">126610LN, LV & all variants including gold and two tone:</strong></p>
***<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">3235 movement:</strong>&nbsp;VSF is best, Clean but has VR3235, then ZF third.</p>
***<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">2836, 2824 movements:</strong>&nbsp;GMF/BP are good.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">116610LN, LV & all variants including gold and two tone:</strong></p>
***<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">3135 movement:</strong>&nbsp;VSF, Clean, ZF</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">124060, 114060 (no date):</strong>&nbsp;VSF, Clean, BPF/GMF, ROF</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Two tone and RG subs (i.e. 116613LB):</strong>&nbsp;VSF, Clean, GMF, ARF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Daytona</strong></p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Special note:</strong>&nbsp;Noob Daytona v4 was the best awhile ago, but are now closed.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">All Daytona models:</strong></p>
***<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">White dial ceramic bezel: Clean v1, Clean v2, BTF in that order</p>
***<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Black dial ceramic bezel: BTF</p>
***<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Other models: Look at both Clean and BTF variants, as well as QF. All use the clone movement and are good quality.</p>
***<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">ARF has gen-like thickness (slightly thicker), but the subdials that would count hours and minutes while the chrono is working do NOT function. If you don’t use chrono often, or want a different style than what Clean has to offer, go for this one.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">GMT Master II</strong></p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">PEPSI 126710BLRO, 116710BLRO:</strong>&nbsp;C+ Factory, Clean Factory, GMF v6 (get with VR3186 movement if you can)</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">BATMAN/BATGIRL 126710BLNR, 116710BLNR:</strong>&nbsp;C+ Factory, Clean, VRF, ARF (best insert, movement might be unstable)</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">116710LN:</strong>&nbsp;C+, Clean, VRF</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">VTNR Sprite</strong>: Clean, GF, GMF</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Rootbeer:</strong>&nbsp;Clean, GMF with VR3186</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">GMT Master I:</strong>&nbsp;BPF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">GMT Master 6542:</strong>&nbsp;RBF (only available via Puretime for some reason), may be out of stock now.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">GMT Master II 16710, 16750m 16700</strong>: BP Factory (not quite gen spec but best we've got)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Explorer II 216570 - All models:</strong>&nbsp;GMF/BP ask for VR3186 if available</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Explorer I 214270:</strong>&nbsp;BPF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Two-tone Explorer I 124273:</strong>&nbsp;GMF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Airking 116900:</strong>&nbsp;GMF (904L), BP (316L)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Milgauss 116400GV:</strong></p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Blue:</strong>&nbsp;ARF or BPF</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Black:</strong>&nbsp;BPF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Yachtmaster</strong>:</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">226659:</strong>&nbsp;VSF in white and yellow gold</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">116622:</strong>&nbsp;Clean, ARF</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">126622 (RG):</strong>&nbsp;Clean</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">116655 (Rose gold):</strong>&nbsp;Clean, VRF</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">126655 (Rose gold):</strong>&nbsp;Clean, EWF</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">268622 37mm:</strong>&nbsp;ARF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Datejust 36 - All models:</strong></p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Decorated 3235:</strong>&nbsp;ARF. ARF has good dials, but date font can be too bold (v3 might be fixed now) and the crystal lacks enough AR coating on the cyclops.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">2824:</strong>&nbsp;GMF is well executed overall, gold plating does not cover the side of the midlinks/endlinks, but the date font is better overall. There are a few other factories in the 36mm space, and GMF and ARF do not cover all dial variants. Take your time and look around and compare to gen</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">New 2021 & 2022 dial variants:</strong>&nbsp;GMF or BP.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Datejust 41 –</strong>&nbsp;All models:</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">3235 Clone movements:</strong>&nbsp;VSF (best movement), Clean (better movement)</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">2824:</strong>&nbsp;ZF, ARF, GMF and BP in that order</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">New 2021 & 2022 dial variants:</strong>&nbsp;GMF or BP.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">DayDate 40 & 36 – All models:</strong>&nbsp;BPF, GMF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">SkyDweller – all models:</strong>&nbsp;Noob v2. Has low beat movement, and other issues with the movement not being like gen, but it’s the best we’ve got.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Datejust 28 – all models:</strong>&nbsp;GMF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Oyster Perpetual 41</strong>: GMF, UBF with VR3230 movement.</p>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF"><br></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"><br></div></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">


=== '''Patek Phillipe''' ===
'''Conclusion'''
</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Nautilus</strong></p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5711 all color dials</strong>&nbsp;- All models: PPF v4 best overall factory but has a fat bezel. 3KF v2 has a good movement but small date font.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5811 41mm Nautilus</strong>&nbsp;- no rep out yet</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Iced out Nautilus</strong>&nbsp;- R8 factory. Very well done. DM v2 is also well done and differently styled (baguette bezel)</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5712 (moonphase date)</strong>&nbsp;- PPF v2 (sometimes call v3) (now ZF). All functions are the same. Excellent rep.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5726 (triple calendar)</strong>&nbsp;- PPF (now ZF)</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5980 Chronograph</strong>&nbsp;- I cannot recommend any good model. All have poor date font, too thick and not done very well. TWF, BPF and a few others are in this space.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">7010 Ladies 33mm</strong>&nbsp;- PF. Overall well done, quartz movement.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">7118 Ladies 35mm</strong>&nbsp;- PF. Very well done.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Aquanaut</strong></p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5067 ladies 35mm aquanaut</strong>&nbsp;- PPF. Thin, quartz, but gen like.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5164 Travel Time</strong>&nbsp;- GRF v2. Too thick compared to gen, time zone functionality does not work. Gray dial and rose gold model are the only good options here.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5165 37mm -</strong>&nbsp;All models ZF. Excellent rep as well.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5167 40mm</strong>&nbsp;- All models: ZF Factory best overall factory, despite the "5" flaw (the line of the grenade pattern extends below the lower left of the 5 numeral, unlike gen). 3KF has a clone movement but machining is not as nice as ZF. OVERALL BEST AQUANAUT REP IN GENERAL is the ZF.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5168 42mm Blue and Green</strong>&nbsp;- ZF. Blue dial isn't quite as nice as gen, green dial and strap misses the mark compared to gen. Overall best execution though. 3KF has clone movement.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5968 Chronograph</strong>&nbsp;- OMF. Very thick, overall not recommended unless you like the look.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Calatrava</strong></p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5077 - Notre Dame & Bhutan enamel craftsman dials</strong>&nbsp;- FLF Factory</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5088</strong>&nbsp;- FLF Factory</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5089 Azulejos enamel craftsman dial</strong>&nbsp;- FLF Factory</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5119</strong>&nbsp;- TW Factory</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5120</strong>&nbsp;- TW Factory. Very nice execution.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5123</strong>&nbsp;- TW Factory. Overall decent execution.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5196 sub seconds</strong>&nbsp;- AIF.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5296 (open caseback</strong>) - All models: ZF Factory. OVERALL BEST CALATRAVA IN GENERAL</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5297G (diamond bezel)</strong>&nbsp;- ZF Factory</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5153 (officer's caseback, smaller case)</strong>&nbsp;- All models: ZF Factory</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5227 (officer's caseback, lacquer dial)</strong>&nbsp;- All models: ZF Factory. OVERALL BEST CALATRAVA IN GENERAL. 3KF has clone movement and is thinner.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">6007</strong>&nbsp;- ZF Factory. Dial and strap color are not as dark as gen.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">7112</strong>&nbsp;- KGF. Decent execution, not amazing.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Grand Complications</strong></p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">4968 Ladies moonphase</strong>&nbsp;- KGF.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5070</strong>&nbsp;- There is a rep, unsure of the factory. Not all versions are in stock though.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5205 Triple calendar moonphase</strong>&nbsp;- GRF v2 or KMF. Both are not great compared to gen, honestly, but look fine enough.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5396</strong>&nbsp;- GRF for all models.</p>
***<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Known issues: sunken date disc, smaller day and month font than gen.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5524 Travel Time</strong>&nbsp;- GRF v2. Get the blue textured dial with brown strap, but the GMT hand is fixed on a 24hr loop, and the inner circle of that hand should be blue and not white. time zone switching is faux. Dial is not as nice as gen, but overall nice try and relatively thin.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">6102 Celestial map</strong>&nbsp;- TZF. Looks good, but functions nothing like gen. Not recommended overall unless you love the look.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">NOTE:</strong>&nbsp;Patek has almost never put a tourbillon in a watch and had it visible from the dial side. They have for a select few references a long time ago.</p>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF"><br></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">


=== '''Audemars Piguet''' ===
Ultimately, it is up to you. Remember, that our small high-quality replica economy depends on the integrity of both TD’s ''and'' buyers. Hopefully, this post has helped you understand the consequences of RL’ing and that you’ll put more effort into properly establishing your expectations through due diligence and research. I hope that you’ll give a higher level of consideration to RL’ing.
</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">15500 41mm</strong>&nbsp;– ZF v3 with clone movement, APS v3 with clone movement (thick date font)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">15400 41mm</strong>&nbsp;– ZF with clone 3120 movement, APS also with clone</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">15510 15550 37mm:</strong>&nbsp;TWF and IPF have a poor clone out</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">15450 37mm</strong>&nbsp;– JF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">15202ST 39mm ultra thin</strong>&nbsp;– XF has thinner hand base, ZF has better dial color. Choose according to your preferences they are both great. XF is no longer available.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">15202IP</strong>&nbsp;– ZF, XF (no longer available), BF</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">15202 green dial and diamond variants</strong>&nbsp;– BF v2</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">16202 -</strong>&nbsp;not available yet</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">15703 & 15710 42mm Offshore</strong>: APS has a clone movement. ZF and JF are overall similar enough.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Note: colored variants of these models will be from JF or BPF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">15720 42mm Offshore:</strong>&nbsp;all 3 variants - BF Factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">67540 Ladies Offshore 37mm</strong>: unknown factory, but a high quality rep is out there with real diamonds. Ask your TD.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Royal Oak Tourbillon</strong>&nbsp;– R8 Factory</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">JF</strong>&nbsp;made a good ultra-thin tourbillon (but still ~11mm)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">26579 Annual Calendar</strong>&nbsp;– ZP factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">26331 Chronograph –</strong>&nbsp;BF and OMF, but none are great.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Open work tourbillon –</strong>&nbsp;R8 factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">77350 34mm Royal Oak (ladies) –</strong>&nbsp;8F</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Royal Oak Offshore 44mm:</strong>&nbsp;JF for nearly all models</p>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF"><br></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">


=== '''Vacheron Constantin''' ===
It isn’t a trivial matter for our TD’s even if it seems as trivial as a set of new pictures in our email inbox for us. Again, I’ll restate that I’m not ''against'' RL’ing. I just want people to RL responsibly with proper expectations and education behind their decision. I’m not encouraging you to buy defective products, just make sure you know the difference between defective products and acceptable ones; sometimes the line between the two is exceptionally thin. It’s up to us to preserve the integrity of our niche community because we could just as quickly destroy it.
</div></div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Overseas Ultra-thin 2000V:</strong>&nbsp;XF for all models (black, grey, blue) - currently closed. Cross is a bit flat below the 12 marker, movement finishing isn't great, but overall a great rep. 8F is good.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Overseas generation 2 reference 47040</strong></p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">JJF Factory</strong>&nbsp;is no longer making these, but in general had a good rep if you find it on M2M. Their v2 was superior to their v1.</p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">MKS Factory</strong>&nbsp;- seems to take cues from JJF. Best models are the grey and blue models. Gen-like thickness.</p>
***<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Known flaws:</strong>&nbsp;Black and white dials have different dial patterns than gen. The triangles/pyramids should be stacked on top of each other, but they are instead offset between rows - not a big deal IMO. Grey dial bezel should be titanium, but appears to be painted (unvetted claim). All models have a flat cross below 12, gen has a nicely beveled cross</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Overseas generation 3 reference 4500V</strong></p>
**<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">ZF/PPF (same) Factory</strong>&nbsp;for all references. No other factory comes close. I used to list BP Factory, but ZF blows them out of the water.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Chronometre Royal 1907:</strong>&nbsp;MKS factory for all models. Good not great rep.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Patrimony reference 85150:</strong>&nbsp;PPF is best, then AIF, MKS, and FKF.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Fiftysix reference 4600:</strong>&nbsp;ZF for all references.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Fiftysix complete calendar:</strong>&nbsp;ZF, MXF ( may have day alignment issues - right justified)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Historique reference 86300:</strong>&nbsp;GSF for all models. Not great, but good rep</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">All other references</strong>&nbsp;- check the TD listings for other models available, but most are either too thick, or have other significant flaws.</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"><br></div></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">


=== '''Richard Mille''' ===
Good hunting.
</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">Credit -- [https://www.reddit.com/u/LibrarySquidLeland/ u/LibrarySquidLeland]</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">RM011:</strong>&nbsp;KVF - thick but best deco, older models for thinner cases but worse deco. Glossy ceramic instead of matte, carbon fiber reinforced plastic instead of NTPT</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">RM035:</strong>&nbsp;ZF - real NTPT, closest to 1:1 size and proportions, v4 for absolute best, but all acceptable</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">RM055:</strong>&nbsp;BBR Factory has a 'clone' movement, and overall great execution. ZF - real ATZ matte ceramic case, closest to 1:1 size and proportions</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">RM027:</strong>&nbsp;EURF - serviceable tourbillon movement</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">RM056:</strong>&nbsp;EURF - sapphire bezels, plastic midcase, serviceable tourbillon movement</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">RM052 Skull:</strong>&nbsp;JBF - sometimes branded as ZF, serviceable tourbillon movement, out of production. EURF model may be available from some sources, may be same thing as JBF (unconfirmed)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">RM012:</strong>&nbsp;KVF - thick case and weird deco, but real tourbillon. May be serviceable movement</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">RM68:</strong>&nbsp;RR Factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">RM010:</strong>&nbsp;RR Factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">RM07:</strong>&nbsp;RM Factory – including bon-bon model</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"><br></div></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">


=== '''Omega''' ===
Most factories won’t take a watch back for a majority of the RL issues, so the dealer has only some choices.
</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Seamaster: All permutations</strong>&nbsp;– VSF (true clone movement), ORF, OMF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Aqua Terra:</strong>&nbsp;VSF (true clone movement), OMF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Seamaster Aqua Terra GMT:</strong>&nbsp;VSF (true clone movement)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Diver 300M:</strong>&nbsp;VSF (true clone movement), ZF, OMF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Planet Ocean (39mm, 42mm, 45mm):</strong>&nbsp;VSF (true clone movement), MKF, BP</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Speedmaster Racing:</strong>&nbsp;HRF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">DeVille 33mm:</strong>&nbsp;UVS Factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">No Time to Die Seamaster</strong>: VSF, ORF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Deville Dew Drop 33mm:</strong>&nbsp;3S Factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Tresor Quartz 39mm:</strong>&nbsp;3M Factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Deville 36mm:</strong>&nbsp;HR Factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Speedmaster 57:</strong>&nbsp;OMF (but not great)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Deville Prestige 39mm:</strong>&nbsp;ZF</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">


=== '''Iced-out watches/Buss down''' ===
# Order a replacement at dealer cost. Try to sell the RL watch to another.
</div></div>
# Try to fix the issue
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Send these links to your TD of choice and have them price it and source it for you. Most of these are smaller batches and don't always have a 'factory name'. The stones are typically CZ. R8 factory is a go-to for most AP and Patek.</p>
# Refund the customer
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Audemars Piguet:</strong></p>
# Swap for a different watch
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">15400 iced out&nbsp;[https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html?t=1638928548133#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202109181814353130002175 https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html?t=1638928548133#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202109181814353130002175]</p>
# Argue with the factory for a replacement (requires lots of previous examples proving the problem is unique to that one watch. If this happens too many times factory may refuse to sell to that dealer
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Another 15400 iced out&nbsp;[https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html?t=1638928548133#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202109291819541890003593 https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html?t=1638928548133#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202109291819541890003593]</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Rose gold 15400&nbsp;[https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html?t=1638928548133#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202109291819541890001004 https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html?t=1638928548133#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202109291819541890001004]</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Rose gold different strap 15400&nbsp;[https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html?t=1638928548133#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202109291819541890009695 https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html?t=1638928548133#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202109291819541890009695]</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Rolex:</strong></p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Rolex Submariner iced out green (also comes in blue and all diamonds)&nbsp;[https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html?t=1638928514142#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202112051625336710001752 https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html?t=1638928514142#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202112051625336710001752]</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Datejust arabic dial&nbsp;[https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202111281531004280002114 https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202111281531004280002114]</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Datejust lume indices&nbsp;[https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202111281531004280001668 https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202111281531004280001668]</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Daytona Rainbow, comes in both RG and YG&nbsp;[https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202112022034435930003330 https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202112022034435930003330]</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Daytona Rainbow, in WG (stainless steel)&nbsp;[https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202112022034435930002112 https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202112022034435930002112]</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Patek:</strong></p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Nautilus emerald green bezel&nbsp;[https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202111171657334310002305 https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202111171657334310002305]</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Nautilus diamonds&nbsp;[https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202111171657334310001101 https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202111171657334310001101]</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Cartier:</strong></p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Iced out arabic Cartier&nbsp;[https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202111171658280420001992 https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202111171658280420001992]</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Iced out roman Cartier&nbsp;[https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202111171658280420001992 https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202111171658280420001992]</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Iced out white dial&nbsp;[https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202111181846566510002942 https://a202004241438341790100492.szwego.com/static/index.html#/theme_detail/A202004241438341790100492/I202111181846566510002942]</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">


=== '''Cartier''' ===
[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/ft65mn/a_guide_to_replica_watch_qc/ Source]
</div></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">Credit to [https://www.reddit.com/u/pvm_april/ u/pvm_april]&nbsp;and&nbsp;[https://www.reddit.com/u/KOUJIROFRAU/ u/KOUJIROFRAU]&nbsp;for their assistance</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Santos (2018) 35mm</strong>&nbsp;or&nbsp;<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">40mm</strong>: GF for steel, BVF for two-tone or gold. GF has fixed their crystals in the most recent batches, and is the only one with a consistently gen-like bracelet. GF &gt; BVF &gt; V6F &gt; 3KF.&nbsp;<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Important note:</strong>&nbsp;GF has been noted to have some screws fall off, whereas BVF does not seem to have this issue on the bracelet.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">All AF Cartier reps are top tier,</strong>&nbsp;but they are not as active as some other factories, so alternatives are listed.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Tank Louis:</strong>&nbsp;DRF</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Tank Solo</strong>: AF; K11F decent alternative.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Tank</strong>&nbsp;<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Must (2021)</strong>: F1.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Tank Francaise:</strong>&nbsp;8848F.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Ballon Bleu 33mm</strong>&nbsp;or&nbsp;<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">36mm</strong>: AF with Cal.076 or quartz; 3KF with Cal.076, or V6F with quartz are decent alternatives. Recommended to avoid models with Seiko NH05.&nbsp;<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Ballon Bleu 28mm</strong>&nbsp;or&nbsp;<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">42mm</strong>: AF; V6F decent alternative.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Panthere</strong>: GF for steel, BVF for two-tone or gold.</p>
<p>[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/pxdzn9/guide_who_makes_the_best_watch_model_factory/ Source]</p>


== How to Read a Timegrapher ==
== How to Read a Timegrapher ==
== The 'Not Worth Buying In Gen' (NWBIG) Guide ==
So you’ve got the QC images or your brand new best replica but what about your timegrapher results?<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="ipsType_normal ipsType_richText ipsPadding_bottom ipsContained" data-role="commentContent" data-controller="core.front.core.lightboxedImages"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="ipsType_normal ipsType_richText ipsPadding_bottom ipsContained" data-role="commentContent" data-controller="core.front.core.lightboxedImages"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="ipsType_normal ipsType_richText ipsPadding_bottom ipsContained" data-role="commentContent" data-controller="core.front.core.lightboxedImages"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="ipsType_normal ipsType_richText ipsPadding_bottom ipsContained" data-role="commentContent" data-controller="core.front.core.lightboxedImages"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix"><div class="ipsType_normal ipsType_richText ipsPadding_bottom ipsContained" data-role="commentContent" data-controller="core.front.core.lightboxedImages">[[image:post-41517-0-47491600-1330961059.jpg|640x195px|none|thumb|Timegrapher reading]]
<p>Audemars Piguet ROO Diver JF 10</p><p>Blancpain Fifty Fathoms (black)&nbsp;Best = Noob V1 (not sold by TD anymore) #2 = ZF</p><p>Breitling Avenger II GMT GF (first batch with correct DW, includes the polished SS and the blacksteel / DLC)<br>Breitling SuperOcean Abyss<br>Breitling SuperOcean Abyss Chrono Noob<br>Breitling SuperOcean Heritage Black Noob V2&nbsp;(not available on TD anymore)<br>Breitling SuperOcean Steelfish H-factory v2&nbsp;(arrow second hand version)<br>Breitling SuperOcean II 44mm (Noob)&nbsp;(black only)<br>Breitling Transocean Day Date Blue - V7F<br>Breitling Navitimer 1 41mm - V7F (blue is best, then black/white)</p><p>Bvlgari Diagono Magnesium GF, last version</p><p>Cartier Santos XL V6<br>Cartier, Ballon Bleu 42mm, V6F V4<br>Cartier, Ballon Bleu Pink Dial 33m, AF (CAL.076)<br>Cartier Tank Solo W5200025 RG AF</p><p>Franck Muller Casablanca Automatique 8880 - GF</p><p>Hublot Big Bang V6(F) "V6.5" SS&nbsp;(not the carbon fiber ones, confused with the name ?&nbsp;[https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/replica-watch-general-discussion/308081-consensual-list-super-reps-nwbigs?p=5159603#post5159603 Click here])</p><p>IWC 3777-01 ZF<br>IWC 3878 Spitfire V6F<br>IWC Big Pilot 5009-01 ZF<br>IWC Laureus Sport Ingenieur 2824 Noob<br>IWC Da Vinci by TW<br>IWC Portofino AF<br>IWC Portofino "150 years anniversary" blue dial (maybe others too) by V7F</p><p>Jaeger-LeCoultre Diver Master Compressor Noob</p><p>Montblanc Timewalker Chrono - Noob A7753</p><p>(list of PAMs below only shows the bests Super Reps for that particular model)<br>PAM 000 - Luminor Base Logo (44mm) N-series Noob V2.5<br>PAM 005 - Luminar Marina Logo (44mm) N-series Noob V2 / N-series H maker V2<br>PAM 026 - Luminor Marina Destro PVD (44mm) K-series Noob V3<br>PAM 029 - Luminor GMT (44mm) M-series Noob V2-improved<br>PAM 057 - Luminor Power Reserve Titanium (44mm) DSN<br>PAM 087 - H maker F-series w/ A-7750<br>PAM 088 - Luminor GMT (44mm) O-series Noob<br>PAM 104 - Luminor Marina Automatic (44mm) O-series Noob<br>PAM 111 - Luminor Marina (44mm) N-series Noob V3 (and later -&gt; current best : v11)<br>PAM 112 - Luminor Base (44mm) M-N series Noob<br>PAM 127 - Luminor 1950 "Fiddy" (47mm) Latest Noob<br>PAM 164 - Luminor Marina Automatic (44mm) O-series Noob<br>PAM 176 - Luminor Base Titanium (44mm) M-N series Noob V3<br>PAM 177 - Luminor Marina Titanium (44mm) N-P series Noob<br>PAM 187 - Luminor Submersible Chorno 1000m (47mm) Noob 7753<br>PAM 217 - Luminor Marina Militare 1950 Destro "Fiddy" (47mm) 2012 Noob<br>PAM 243 - Luminor 1950 Submersible (44mm) M-series Noob V2<br>PAM 285 - K-series KW/V6Fac with A7750 decorated like OPIII)<br>PAM 288 - Radiomir Chronograph (45mm) K-series H maker<br>PAM 292 - Radiomir Black Seal (45mm) J-series Noob<br>PAM 297 - Luminor GMT (44mm) O-series Noob<br>PAM 299 - Luminor Marina Automatic (K-series) (44mm) O- series Noob<br>PAM 318 - Luminor Marina Logo (44mm) L-series Noob<br>PAM 346 - Radiomir Titanio (45mm) KW/V6F<br>PAM 356 - Luminor Chrono Daylight (44mm) O-series Noob 7753<br>PAM 364 - Luminor Submersible 1950 Titanium (47mm) P-series Noob<br>PAM 390 - Luminor Boutique Edition (44mm) N-series Noob<br>PAM 411 to 420 - Luminor Marina Boutiques Special Edition (44mm) KW/V6F<br>PAM 432 to 434 - Luminor Marina Boutiques Special Edition (44mm) H Maker<br>PAM 441 - Luminor GMT VSF V2<br>PAM 508 - Luminor 1950 Submerislbe Ceramica (47mm) KW-V6Fac Ceramic decorated A7750 Inverted KP9000 // P-KW-V6Fac Ceramic decorated Seagull NON-inverted KP9000-Seagull V2<br>PAM 569 - Luminor 1950 Submersible Dextro Titanium (47mm) KW-V6F Q-series Seagull Non-Inverted KWP9000-Seagull V2<br>PAM 571 - ZFac P-series P.9000 decorated A7750 NON-inverted Improved ZP9000-V2.5 // KW-V6Fac P-series P.9000 decorated A7750 Inverted KP9000-V2. KW-V6Fac P-series P.9000 decorated Seagull NON-inverted K9000-SeagullV2.<br>PAM 607 - KW-V6Fac P-series Ceramic decorated A7750 NON-inverted KP9000-V2) The most interesting version for A7750 lovers. // KW-V6Fac P-series Ceramic decorated KP9000-Seagull V2 NON-inverted The most interesting version for Seagull lovers</p><p>Rolex 114300, 39mm, Grape and Grey dial JF&nbsp;(now ARF, service is recommended)<br>Rolex Sub 16610 TC<br>Rolex TW Best/WM9 (Sub/Bluesy/DD)<br>Rolex 116900 AIR-KING GMF & BP (last versions)</p><p>Seven Friday (V6F) P series (P1-1, P3-1), V series (V2-1) and M series&nbsp;(not the M2-2 one)</p><p>Tag Heuer Aquaracer 300&nbsp;(White Dial on Ronda with SS bracelet)<br>Tag Heuer Aquaracer Calibre 5 SS on Rubber - SW200</p><p>Tudor Black Bay Red 2016 ZF&nbsp;(last shield version)<br>Tudor Heritage Ranger SS S Factory<br>Tudor Black Pelagos V6F/XF V2/3/4<br>Tudor Blue Pelagos V6F/XF V2/3/4</p><p>'''- [Exhaustive Consensual List] Commonly accepted as&nbsp;<u>First Class++ NWBIGs</u>&nbsp;-'''<br>'''(These are&nbsp;''''''Super Reps''''''&nbsp;on the wrist,&nbsp;<u>minor</u>&nbsp;tell only on the open caseback so unless you take it off, show it to an expert and give him a few minutes for close inspection,&nbsp;''''''these&nbsp;<u>ARE SUPER REPS</u>'''''')'''</p><p>PAM 438 - VSF V2<br>PAM 687 - Acciaio Brevettato SF</p><p>Longines, Master Collection LGF Top Edition</p><p>Omega Seamaster Diver 300M 2019 Real Ceramic Case VSF (v1 only unless you get a fixed version)</p><p>Patek Philippe Calatrava 5296R RG/LE ZF with MY9015 Mod (WG could be too, need feedbacK)<br>Patek Philippe Calatrava 5296G SS ZF White Sector Dial/Blue Hands<br></p><p>Under debate / No Consensus yet</p><p>'''- Likely Super Reps but needs more feedback,&nbsp;<u>definitely</u>&nbsp;<u>FIRST CLASS</u>&nbsp;:'''<br>Cartier, Ballon Bleu 28 and 33mm, V6F<br>Cartier Santos 100 V6F (Black Dial, Titanium Ultimate Swiss SW)<br>Cartier Ronde Croisiere WSRN0002 GP<br>Cartier W5200025 ZF<br>Chanel J12 38 mm - FR Factory<br>IWC 501902 Top Gun Miramar ZF<br>IWC IW388002 V6F<br>IWC IW327010 MARK XVIII by V7 Factory<br>IWC Big Pilot IW502001 Real Ceramic ZF V2&nbsp;(waiting for new batch, short minute hand issue)<br>Longines, La Grande Classique SS 37mm JF<br>Longines Avigation Bigeye ZX<br>Omega Aqua Terra 8500 Clone - VSF<br>Omega AT Master Co-Axial 8900 - VSF<br>Omega De Ville SS RXW A2892<br>Omega De Ville SS GPF V2<br>Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean 600m LMPO Noob V5&nbsp;(waiting for the caseback typo to be fixed)<br>Tudor Heritage Ranger V6F<br>TAG Heuer Aquaracer Special Edition Premier League GS<br>Zenith Pilot Extra Special 20 - Black dial (V6F &gt; ZF)</p><p>'''[Non-exhaustive Consensual List] <u>FIRST CLASS&nbsp;NWBIGs</u>'''</p><p>Bell & Ross 03-92 ZF&nbsp;(not the Golden Heritage one that has a very bad Dial)<br>Bell & Ross 03-92 Horolum Watch Achive Custom<br>Bell & Ross 03-93 GMT Watch Archive Custom<br>Blancpain Fifty Fathoms (Noob V2)<br>Breitling Navitimer World 46mm GMT (black only)&nbsp;BP<br>Breitling Avenger Blackbird (GF/ GF V2)<br>Cartier W6701011 ZF&nbsp;(really subtle difference on DW and window)<br>Franck Muller Master Square GF<br>Hublot Classic Fusion 42mm JJF black dial (V2) -&nbsp;Back is wrong and screws are randomly falling<br>IWC Portofino White Dial V5 MKF<br>IWC Portofino "150 years anniversary" white dial MKF<br>IWC Mark XVII Le Petit Prince MKF<br>IWC Mark XVII MKF<br>IWC Portuguese 7 days ZF (last version)<br>IWC Black 3714 - ZF V3 (slim movement)<br>Jaeger-LeCoultre Master-Ultrathin Moonphase ZF&nbsp;(black dial, possibly the others too, moon & back / clasp are little off)<br>Montblanc Heritage Spirit M Factory<br>Omega Seamaster 300 Spectre VSF<br>Omega Seamaster Diver 300M 2018 VSF V2<br>Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean 600m 42 and 45mm (CrPO) Noob<br>Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean (45.5 / 42mm) CrPO (8500 Super Clone) VSF<br>PAM 382 - VSF V2&nbsp;(small issue with the font on the crown guard)<br>Rolex DateJust 41 by VSF / ARF<br>Rolex Explorer (214270) SH3135 V2 (JF)<br>Rolex Day Date 18239 TW Best/WM9<br>Rolex Daytona 116500 (Asia 4130 Mod) White/Stk - Noob<br>Rolex Daytona 116520 (Asia 4130 Mod) - Noob<br>Rolex Submariner 116610LN ZZF v2<br>Rolex Submariner No Date ZZF v3<br>Rolex Submariner 116610 Date VSF (GET THIS ONE, might even be Super Rep once Rehaut is fixed)<br>Rolex Sea Dweller 4000 (116660) ARF 904L Steel SH3135<br>Rolex Sea Dweller 4000 (116600) Noob V2<br>Rolex Sea Dweller 2017 Baselworld 126600 904L ARF & Noob (latest versions)<br>Rolex Yacht-Master Rhodium Noob 904L Steel SA3135/VR3135<br>Tag Heuer Carrera calibre 1887 V6F - Ceramic Bezel Black Dial on SS<br>Tudor LHD Pelagos - XF<br>Tudor Black Pelagos - ZF V2/V3</p><p>'''- Under review (likely to be&nbsp;<u>FIRST CLASS,</u>&nbsp;some could be Super Reps but need more feedback) :'''<br>Audemars Piguet - XF V2 FC Diver 15706<br>Breitling SuperOcean SeaWolf H-factory v2<br>Breitling Superocean Heritage II 42mm - GF V2&nbsp;(wrong pearl, font too bold, date font)<br>Concord C1 - H Factory<br>Cartier Panthère Secrete DJ<br>Cartier Tank Solo W5200025 RG AF 1:1<br>Glashutte Senator Sixties - GF<br>IWC Big Pilot 5009-12 ZF<br>IWC Big Pilot 5009-16 ZF<br>IWC 5009-08 LPP ZF V2<br>Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean GMT 600m<br>Omega De Ville SS MKS<br>Omega Planet Ocean 600m GMT (Black/Orange) VSF 8605<br>PAM 616 - CarboTech Submersible VSF A7750<br>PAM 424 V2 California Dial Super Clone P.3000 ZF<br>Patek Philippe Nautilus 5711 PPF White<br>Rolex Sea Dweller Deepsea (DBlue) Noob V7<br>Rolex Date-Just 116234 ARF<br>Rolex Celini MKF<br>Rolex Explorer II 42mm 216570 Noob&nbsp;(Correct Hand Stack)<br>SevenFriday P2B/03-W ‘Woody’ NFC V6F<br>Tudor Heritage Black Bay Bronze Blue XF<br>Tudor Black Bay GMT Baselworld 2018 ZF<br>Tudor Blue Heritage Black Bay (Bucherer) XF<br>Vacheron Constantin Overseas White JJF MY9015 Mod&nbsp;(need feedback on movement noise and cross engraving thickness on the back)<br>Zenith Extra Special Bronze Edition V6F/KW</p><p>'''<u>NOT ACCEPTED</u>&nbsp;as NWBIGs/Super Reps (naked eye instant tell(s)/waiting for update)'''<br>Tudor BB Red Rose Edition ZF - V4/V5<br>Blancpain Villeret 6654 SS (with complication) OMF : moon phase goes the wrong way + adjustment wrong side of the case</p><p>[https://forum.replica-watch.info/threads/consensual-list-super-reps-nwbigs.308081/ Source]</p>
<p>'''Presets'''</p>
<p>'''Beat Number'''</p>
<p>Frequency, the vibration of a movement. The number of balance wheel swings per hour or how many times the watch ticks per hour. This is a preset, depends on the watch you order.</p>
<p>14,400 bph = 4 beats per second</p>
<p>18,000 bph = 5 beats per second</p>
<p>21,600 bph = 6 beats per second</p>
<p>28,800 bph = 8 beats per second</p>
<p>etc</p>
<p>'''Lift Angle'''</p>
<p>The angle the balance passes through while interacting with the pallet fork. Important to be set correctly in order to calculate the Amplitude. This preset is per caliber specs.</p>
<p>Most modern watches have a lift angle of 50 – 52 degrees. Generally lift angles range from 44 to 58 degrees. Some other settings are present, for instance Gen co-axials angle is 30 degrees.</p>
<p>'''Results'''</p>
<p>'''Rate'''</p>
<p>How fast / slow the movement runs (in seconds per day)</p>
<p>great : +/- 5 s/d</p>
<p>acceptable : +/- 12 s/d</p>
<p>If higher / lower?</p>
<p>It is possible to adjust this yourself or ask your dealer to nudge it a bit.</p>
<p>'''Amplitude'''</p>
<p>The measure of the amount of rotation in the swing of the balance wheel, in either direction.</p>
<p>Amplitude is higher when a watch is lying flat and usually falls when the watch is in a vertical position, due to increased friction. Amplitude can also fall as the watch winds down and the mainspring delivers less power.</p>
<p>Amplitude is a good indicator of the movements health and if is too high or too low, or that changes too much in different positions, can indicate a problem with the movement.</p>
<p>great : 270-310</p>
<p>acceptable : 250-270</p>
<p>If higher / lower?</p>
<p>Ask for a different watch or have your watch serviced</p>
<p>'''Beat Error'''</p>
<p>The amount of time by which the duration of swing differs from one side to the other in the oscillation of a balance wheel. Generally speaking to get a beat error of zero, the roller jewel in the pallet fork must be perfectly centered.</p>
<p>great : 0.0-0.5 ms</p>
<p>acceptable : 0.6-1 ms</p>
<p>If higher?</p>
<p>Ask for a different watch or have your watch serviced.</p>
<p>'''* '''Please note that if you are reading your QC from the dealer, you will generally receive only the results of the watch lying flat. All the above recommended measurements are from that position. The measurements in other positions may vary.</p>
<p>[https://rwg.cc/topic/143934-how-to-read-timegrapher-results Source]</p>


[[image:watch-timegrapher-big-zero.jpg|640x427px|none|thumb]]
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Rate</strong>&nbsp;is the first number you see on the top left side of the display. This number describes how much time the watch is either gaining or losing per day. The great watches that has been tested and certified has a rate within +/-2s per day in 4-6 different orientations. For these rep movements and low-end Asian movements you can be pleased with +/-10s per day in the "dial up" orientation.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The second number is the&nbsp;<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">amplitude</strong>. This number is how far the balance swings from its resting position, i.e the total swing angle of the spring. This number can vary quite greatly without to much impact on the time keeping and the number varies based on how far the mainspring is wound, the best way to test the amplitude is to wind the mainspring fully wait 1 hour and then test it. Most movements stay within 260-300º, with a lot of rep movements hitting higher than that.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">A common misconception is that you want a super high amplitude.</strong></p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">While it's true that a high amplitude is an indication of a healthy watch, to high of an amplitude can cause damage to the escapement parts and wear it out faster or cause an issue known as "knocking" where the impulse pin swings to far and hits the pallet "in the back". (Graph showing&nbsp;[https://adjustingvintagewatches.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Illinois-Knocking-768x576.jpg knocking])</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The third common number is the&nbsp;<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">beat error.</strong>&nbsp;The beat error is the difference in time between the "tic" and the "toc" of the watch. This number in a genuine watch, even lower grade is most often 0.0ms. In a rep movement I believe you can be pleased with everything under 0.7-1.0ms. Bigger differences in the beat error can be a early indication of damage to the balance spring.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The last number is this&nbsp;<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">lift angle.</strong>&nbsp;This number is a predetermined number which is based on the angle between when the impulse pin hits the pallet and when the pallet catches the next cog on the escape wheel.</p>
[[image:lift-angle.png|229x335px]]
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Another number that can be seen often in the QC pictures are 21,600 or 28,800. This number is the number of beats per hour or&nbsp;<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">BPH.</strong>&nbsp;This equate to 6 or 8 beats per second, most common in alot of high end reps is 28,800.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The lines on the graph can help you get a visual representation of how the watch movement is behaving. The&nbsp;<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">rate</strong> of the watch determines the angle of the lines, lines going "up" means the watch is gaining time and lines going "down" means the watch is losing time.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The&nbsp;<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">beat error</strong>&nbsp;determines how far apart the two lines are, if the beat error is 0.00 you should only see one line on the graph.</p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
== How to set up your Manual Watch ==
== How to set up your Manual Watch ==
<p>'''WATCH WITHOUT DATE or WATCH WITH DATE, WITHOUT QUICKSET'''</p><p>The crown has 2 positions:</p><p>'''1. Normal position - wearing position'''</p><p>In this position the watch can be wound using the crown. Turn the crown forwards until you feel resistance - DO NOT OVERWIND THE MECHANISM. Winding the watch once a day should be enough to ensure the correct functioning of the watch. When the crown is positioned against the case this ensures that the watch is water resistant. Please note that must of Factories and TD do not guarantee the watch being waterproof or water resistant.</p><p>Make sure that when you handle the crown in any way the watch is in your hand, not on your wrist. This is because there is a possibility you bend or damage the crown tube and / or case of the watch, should you handle the crown when the watch is on your wrist.</p><p>'''2. Pulled out position - time (and date) setting'''</p><p>When the crown is pulled out, it can be used to set the time. The crown can be turned forwards and backwards. To set the date please keep moving the the crown forwards (clockwise) to the desired date.</p><p>'''WATCH WITH DATE QUICKSET'''</p><p>'''1. Normal position - wearing position'''</p><p>In this position the watch can be wound using the crown. Turn the crown forwards until you feel resistance - DO NOT OVERWIND THE MECHANISM. Winding the watch once a day should be enough to ensure the correct functioning of the watch. When the crown is positioned against the case this ensures that the watch is water resistant. Please note that must of Factories and TD do not guarantee the watch being waterproof or water resistant.</p><p>'''2. Pulled out once position - date setting'''</p><p>When the crown is in this position the crown can be turned upwards to change the date. When using the quickset function to change the date please make sure the time is first set to 6 o’clock. This is because around 12 o’clock the watch itself is mechanically changing the date. Should you try to change the date manually when the watch is using this function there is a chance you damage the mechanism. When the time is set at or around 6 o’clock this mechanism can not be damaged.</p><p>'''3. Pulled out twice position'''</p><p>Time setting When the crown is pulled out twice, it can be used to set the time. The crown can be turned forwards and backwards.</p><p>'''Chronograph Manual'''</p><p>Using a chronograph:</p><p>1. Your watch has 2 pushers. The top one, pusher A is usually used to start and stop the chronograph. The bottom pusher, pusher B, is used to reset the chronograph. The chronograph can be used as a stopwatch, for example to measure lap times. Note: never push both pushers simultaneously.</p><p>2. The second-hand of the chronograph is the long central hand on your watch. A watch with a chronograph usually has a small seconds hand in a separate sub- dial, for the time function of your watch. Please do not keep the chronograph running all the time, as this takes a lot of power reserve from the mechanism.</p><p>3. Usually a chronograph has 2 or 3 sub-dials / counters. One is used to show the seconds, this hand is always moving as it shows the seconds of the time, not the seconds elapsed when using the chronograph. The other two sub-dials are used to show the elapsed minutes and hours when using the chronograph. When the chronograph is not being used the hand of these sub-dials should be centered pointing towards 12 o’clock.</p><p>'''ROLEX OYSTER DAY-DATE, QUICKSET'''</p><p>To change the time or date, or to wind the watch by hand, you must fist unscrew the crown from the case, ‘hen pull it until the required position is reached. Always perform these operations with the watch in your hand and not on your wrist. When you are done, make sure the crown is Screwed down to the case again before you wear it.</p><p>'''ROLEX OYSTER WITH DATE FUNCTION'''</p><p>To change the time or date, or to wind the watch by hand, you must first unscrew the crown from the case, then pull it until the required position is reached. Always perform these operations with the watch in your hand and not on your wrist. When you are done, make sure the crown is screwed down to the case again before you wear it.</p>
<p>[[File:How_to_Wind_a_Watch.mp4]]</p>
<p>'''WATCH WITHOUT DATE or WATCH WITH DATE, WITHOUT QUICKSET'''</p>
<p>The crown has 2 positions:</p>
<p>'''1. Normal position - wearing position'''</p>
<p>In this position the watch can be wound using the crown. Turn the crown forwards until you feel resistance - DO NOT OVERWIND THE MECHANISM. Winding the watch once a day should be enough to ensure the correct functioning of the watch. When the crown is positioned against the case this ensures that the watch is water resistant. Please note that must of Factories and TD do not guarantee the watch being waterproof or water resistant.</p>
<p>Make sure that when you handle the crown in any way the watch is in your hand, not on your wrist. This is because there is a possibility you bend or damage the crown tube and / or case of the watch, should you handle the crown when the watch is on your wrist.</p>
<p>'''2. Pulled out position - time (and date) setting'''</p>
<p>When the crown is pulled out, it can be used to set the time. The crown can be turned forwards and backwards. To set the date please keep moving the the crown forwards (clockwise) to the desired date.</p>
<p>'''WATCH WITH DATE QUICKSET'''</p>
<p>'''1. Normal position - wearing position'''</p>
<p>In this position the watch can be wound using the crown. Turn the crown forwards until you feel resistance - DO NOT OVERWIND THE MECHANISM. Winding the watch once a day should be enough to ensure the correct functioning of the watch. When the crown is positioned against the case this ensures that the watch is water resistant. Please note that must of Factories and TD do not guarantee the watch being waterproof or water resistant.</p>
<p>'''2. Pulled out once position - date setting'''</p>
<p>When the crown is in this position the crown can be turned upwards to change the date. When using the quickset function to change the date please make sure the time is first set to 6 o’clock. This is because around 12 o’clock the watch itself is mechanically changing the date. Should you try to change the date manually when the watch is using this function there is a chance you damage the mechanism. When the time is set at or around 6 o’clock this mechanism can not be damaged.</p>
<p>'''3. Pulled out twice position'''</p>
<p>Time setting When the crown is pulled out twice, it can be used to set the time. The crown can be turned forwards and backwards.</p>
<p>'''Chronograph Manual'''</p>
<p>Using a chronograph:</p>
<p>1. Your watch has 2 pushers. The top one, pusher A is usually used to start and stop the chronograph. The bottom pusher, pusher B, is used to reset the chronograph. The chronograph can be used as a stopwatch, for example to measure lap times. Note: never push both pushers simultaneously.</p>
<p>2. The second-hand of the chronograph is the long central hand on your watch. A watch with a chronograph usually has a small seconds hand in a separate sub- dial, for the time function of your watch. Please do not keep the chronograph running all the time, as this takes a lot of power reserve from the mechanism.</p>
<p>3. Usually a chronograph has 2 or 3 sub-dials / counters. One is used to show the seconds, this hand is always moving as it shows the seconds of the time, not the seconds elapsed when using the chronograph. The other two sub-dials are used to show the elapsed minutes and hours when using the chronograph. When the chronograph is not being used the hand of these sub-dials should be centered pointing towards 12 o’clock.</p>
<p>'''ROLEX OYSTER DAY-DATE, QUICKSET'''</p>
<p>To change the time or date, or to wind the watch by hand, you must fist unscrew the crown from the case, ‘hen pull it until the required position is reached. Always perform these operations with the watch in your hand and not on your wrist. When you are done, make sure the crown is Screwed down to the case again before you wear it.</p>
[[image:ucla8jha70n51.png|640x676px|none|thumb]][[image:42nzdjha70n51.png|640x625px|none|thumb]]<p>'''ROLEX OYSTER WITH DATE FUNCTION'''</p>
<p>To change the time or date, or to wind the watch by hand, you must first unscrew the crown from the case, then pull it until the required position is reached. Always perform these operations with the watch in your hand and not on your wrist. When you are done, make sure the crown is screwed down to the case again before you wear it.</p>
[[image:104tgiha70n51.png|640x745px|none|thumb]][[image:od0xbjha70n51.png|640x299px|none|thumb]]
<br>


== List of Known Watch Factories ==
== List of Known Watch Factories ==
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><div class="ipsType_normal ipsType_richText ipsPadding_bottom ipsContained" data-role="commentContent" data-controller="core.front.core.lightboxedImages"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">ZF</strong>: High quality factory for most non-Rolex watches. Overall a good factory with solid releases. Just starting to branch into AP and RM, and they are pretty good.</p>
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><div class="ipsType_normal ipsType_richText ipsPadding_bottom ipsContained" data-role="commentContent" data-controller="core.front.core.lightboxedImages"><div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Noob / N Factory</strong>: NOW CLOSED 🙁 Noob factory is probably the most famous factory among others, they started a very long time ago and really developing their piece of replica. Noob makes a decent submariner, but have a great Daytona with clone movement, and a good pepsi insert. Besides Rolex, Noob also developing some brands like some Planet Ocean Omega, Blancpain, some Audemars Piguet models, and some Panerai model. Recently (5/12/21) Noob was hit very hard in a raid so their models are on hold for ~6 months (rumor on timeline).</p>
'''ZF''': High quality factory for most non-Rolex watches. Overall a good factory with solid releases. Just starting to branch into AP and RM, and they are pretty good.
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">VSF/V6F/XF/HBB/KW</strong>: re-opened. All fall under a common parent company, but VSF specializes in Omega and Rolex super-reps and Panerai, V6F does quite a bit of projects (though the name isn’t used much nowadays) and XF focuses on Audemars Piguet but recently ventured into Vacheron Constantin. HBB does Roger Dubuis.</p>
 
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">ARF/JF:</strong>&nbsp;JF is the brand name of AP reps. High quality, great detail, though ZF is showing them a run for their money these days. JF also makes middle-high tier Rolex watches among others. ARF is a division that focuses on high quality Rolex releases that focus on finishing. Rumor that JF is closing.</p>
'''Noob / N Factory''': NOW CLOSED :( Noob factory is probably the most famous factory among others, they started a very long time ago and really developing their piece of replica. Noob makes a decent submariner, but have a great Daytona with clone movement, and a good pepsi insert. Besides Rolex, Noob also developing some brands like some Planet Ocean Omega, Blancpain, some Audemars Piguet models, and some Panerai model. Recently (5/12/21) Noob was hit very hard in a raid so their models are on hold for ~6 months (rumor on timeline).
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">JVS:</strong>&nbsp;Newer factory as of 2021, takes inspiration from VSF and aims to release high quality Rolex releases.</p>
 
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">ZZF/Clean</strong>: Quality releases recently for Rolex. Rebranded to Clean factory. Be aware of fake</p>
'''VSF/V6F/XF/HBB/KW''': All fall under a common parent company, but VSF specializes in Omega and Rolex super-reps and Panerai, V6F does quite a bit of projects (though the name isn't used much nowadays) and XF focuses on Audemars Piguet but recently ventured into Vacheron Constantin. HBB does Roger Dubuis.
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">PPF</strong>: Supposedly family of ZF, but focused on Patek. Has the best current Nautilus</p>
 
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">BP/GMF:</strong>&nbsp;BP is one of the OG rep factories. Has reps of most brands and models, and are at an affordable price. GMF seems to be a higher end brand focusing on finish, but sourcing from similar places.</p>
'''ARF/JF:''' JF is the brand name of AP reps. High quality, great detail, though ZF is showing them a run for their money these days. JF also makes middle-high tier Rolex watches among others. ARF is a division that focuses on high quality Rolex releases that focus on finishing. Rumor that JF is closing.
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">MK/MKS:</strong>&nbsp;Focuses on IWC, Patek and Omega releases, though they have branched into other brands too.</p>
 
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">TF:</strong>&nbsp;Specializes in tourbillons (hence “T” F), but most are 42mm and kind of thick.</p>
'''JVS:''' Newer factory as of 2021, takes inspiration from VSF and aims to release high quality Rolex releases.
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">GF</strong>: Originally started focusing on German watches (“G”F), but have branched into many other Swiss brands like JLC and Cartier. Creates ‘copy cat’ models for a bit cheaper, and sometimes surprises with improved details</p>
 
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">FK</strong>: Makes quite a few reps, most are not very good or just barely miss the mark for one specific reason. However, their Breguet 5177 v3 watch is superb!!! So do not underestimate any release of theirs.</p>
'''ZZF/Clean''': Quality releases recently for Rolex. Rebranded to Clean factory. Be aware of fake
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">R Factory</strong>: Rolex</p>
 
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">YLF</strong>: Connected to ZF, focuses on IWC</p>
'''PPF''': Supposedly family of ZF, but focused on Patek. Has the best current Nautilus
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">VRF</strong>: Specialized in the Rolex arena with an excellent sub, excellent new VR3135 movement, and gold wrapped subs too.</p>
 
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">OMF</strong>: Focuses on middle tier quality and prices, but recently have high quality Omega releases</p>
'''BP/GMF:''' BP is one of the OG rep factories. Has reps of most brands and models, and are at an affordable price. GMF seems to be a higher end brand focusing on finish, but sourcing from similar places.
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">PF:</strong>&nbsp;Revolutionized the Nautilus market with the first thin Nautilus. However, they were recently outdone by PPF and 3K. Focused on Patek, but have other releases.</p>
 
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">3K:</strong>&nbsp;Newer factory (as of 2020) that released a clone Patek movement.</p>
'''MK/MKS:''' Focuses on IWC, Patek and Omega releases, though they have branched into other brands too.
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">JJF:</strong>&nbsp;Focused on Vacheron and Patek releases, came out with the great Overseas rep. Rumor is they shut down though.</p>
 
'''TTF: '''tbc
'''TF:''' Specializes in tourbillons (hence "T" F), but most are 42mm and kind of thick.
 
'''GF''': Originally started focusing on German watches ("G"F), but have branched into many other Swiss brands like JLC and Cartier. Creates 'copy cat' models for a bit cheaper, and sometimes surprises with improved details
 
'''FK''': Makes quite a few reps, most are not very good or just barely miss the mark for one specific reason. However, their Breguet 5177 v3 watch is superb!!! So do not underestimate any release of theirs.
 
'''JKF:''' Joker Factory
 
'''R Factory''': Rolex
 
'''YLF''': Connected to ZF, focuses on IWC
 
'''VRF''': Specialized in the Rolex arena with an excellent sub, excellent new VR3135 movement, and gold wrapped subs too.
 
'''OMF''': Focuses on middle tier quality and prices, but recently have high quality Omega releases
 
'''PF:''' Revolutionized the Nautilus market with the first thin Nautilus. However, they were recently outdone by PPF and 3K. Focused on Patek, but have other releases.
 
'''3K/BTF:'''  clone Patek movement releases and excellent Daytona reps.
 
'''JJF:''' Focused on Vacheron and Patek releases, came out with the great Overseas rep. Rumor is they shut down though.
 
'''TTF: '''Higher end Entry tier quality watches.
 
'''GDF:''' Higher end Entry tier quality watches.
 
'''TWF:''' Taiwan Factory. Specialising in Cartier but with a number of other watches for low prices but decent quality.
 
'''Gold Factory:''' Mainly make Rolex reps
 
'''APS:''' Rolex & Audemars Piguet


'''GDF:''' tbc</div></div></div></div></div>
</div>'''8848F:''' Make a lot of Cartier watches
</div></div></div></div>


== How to Identify Scammers & Avoid Scams ==
== How to Identify Scammers & Avoid Scams ==
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><p>What can we do to prevent being scammed? And, whom exactly is responsible for preventing or at least reducing the potential of being scammed here?</p><p>Simply stated: It is up to each and everyone of us to conduct our own best due diligence to prevent being scammed prior to participating in any m2m sale.</p><p>Of course we know to research an item before making a purchase. The more we know, the better the experience.</p><p>Always commit yourself to finding out as much about the member posting the item for sale as possible.</p><p>The forum makes it rather simple to check out the selling members join date, along with his/her posting and sales history. Take time to read the type of comments the selling member makes in his/her post history. Look for any potential red flags, negative or derogatory comments. See if you can follow a previous sales post involving the seller whereas he/she was the actual buyer.</p><p>If you find any comments that appear to be misleading in any way, dig deeper:</p>
*What kind of buyer or seller have they been?
*Is there a previous history of nuked sales, withdrawn sales?
*Have they been repeatedly asked to clarify or provide documentation?
*Did they fail to respond to specific questions?
*Any history of hesitation or refusal to respond to a sales mod?
*Is the seller using the correct sales form and have they completed it accurately and clearly?
*Are they claiming to be selling the item for a friend ?
*Is the seller keeping the sales post open after claiming it is sold?
*Has the seller suddenly sent you a PM offering a special lower price , if you buy now or send payment via PayPal family and friends?
*Does the seller appear to be posting several items for sale all at once?
*Are they listing items for sell at considerably lower than average pricing?
*Is the seller posting several sales in various m2m sales areas for gen items, replicas etc?
*Does the seller react adversely to questions or comments concerning authenticity of the item for sale?
*Do you get a feeling that something is off about the seller or the item for sale?
<p>We all have an inner sense of intuition. If you have a gut feeling something is not quite right, dig deeper, ask more questions. If you are not satisfied with his/her answer – walk away. There will always be another great watch that you just have to have.</p><p>Remember, patience is a prime factor in this hobby.</p><p>Before you spend your first dollar in this hobby, ask yourself this question: ''Can I afford to lose my hard earned money?''</p><p>If you feel in any way that you can’t afford a loss, then just don’t do it.</p><p>You are responsible for you. You are the only one responsible for your actions. The forum is not responsible for your decisions or the choices you make here, nor are the admin/mods, the TD’s, or anyone else, Just you. If you can’t take full responsibility for your own actions, decisions, you certainly can’t expect anyone else to.</p><p>The absolute most important thing after accepting responsible is to be prepared. Prepare yourself to avoid being scammed by educating yourself. Use the forum resources to educate yourself on every aspect of this hobby. Educate yourself to know the best factory, the pros and cons of each replica. Educate yourself on the genuine watch you like.</p><p>Familiarize yourself with the brand. Know what the gen looks like, feels like, it’s specifications, how it functions, the type of movement it has. How can you expect to find the most accurate replica if you don’t know all there is to know about the gen.</p><p>​​​​​​​Finally, make your own decisions based on your own research to spend your own money.</p><p>Each of us must be prepared to take the full responsibility of our actions.</p>[https://forum.replica-watch.info/threads/a-few-thoughts-on-scam-prevention.8733851/ Source]</div>
== Wrist Watch Size Guide ==
== Wrist Watch Size Guide ==
<p>Find the best watch size for your wrist. Use this guide to size up the watch to best suit your wrist width.</p><p>Here is a complete watch size table, including lug to lug distance, that will help you find the perfect watch for your wrist size.</p><p>Always remember: in any case, you don’t want the lugs to overhang the width of your wrist.</p>
Find the best watch size for your wrist. Use this guide to size up the watch to best suit your wrist width.
== <span id="How_To_Measure_a_Watch_Case_Size" class="ez-toc-section"></span>How To Measure a Watch Case Size ==
 
<p>If you’re in a hurry, here is how you do it: with a set of digital callipers, measure the watch case from one side of the case to opposite side, without including the crown.</p><p>Because on most watches the crown sits à the 3 o’clock position, it’s often easier to measure a watch case from the 2 o’clock to the 10 o’clock position.</p><div class="wp-block-image wp-image-364 size-medium"><figure class="aligncenter is-resized">&nbsp;<figcaption class="wp-element-caption">How to measure a watch case size.</figcaption></figure></div><p>If you don’t have callipers, you can use a transparent ruler to get an approximation of that size. The size reading won’t be perfect, but it will give you a good idea.</p>
Here is a complete watch size table, including lug to lug distance, that will help you find the perfect watch for your wrist size.
== <span id="How_Big_Is_a_38mm_Watch" class="ez-toc-section"></span>How Big Is a 38mm Watch? ==
 
<p>I cannot stress this enough: the watch case size is not everything! That single dimension is not the whole story!</p><p>Pretty much all articles and guides on the Internet are way too simplistic regarding watch sizes: they just tell you to&nbsp;not&nbsp;get a watch above 40mm in diameter, with 38mm being the sweet spot. But is it?</p><p>A 38 mm diver like the Seiko SKX013 (check it on Amazon&nbsp;or read my full review of the Seiko SKX013) would look tiny on a 7.5 inch wrist. Conversely, a 38 mm dress watch like the Hamilton Intra-Matic (check it on Amazon) would look perfect.</p><p>The other way around is true too: the Seiko SKX013 looks perfect on my 6 inch wrist, but the Hamilton Intra-Matic looks quite big (but still okay) on me. It’s all about how it looks on your wrist. 38 mm, in and of itself, doesn’t mean anything.</p><p>Now, while getting a 38mm watch is a safe choice most of the time, it’s not nearly enough to make a watch work for you. I have 42mm watches that still look good on me, while some 40mm watches look absolutely huge. We’ll see later in this article why.</p><p>Also, you have to take into account your tastes. I prefer modern watches. The problem is: most modern watches are on the bigger side, with 40mm being about the smallest you can get (unless you go to more luxurious brands).</p><p>So if you’re like me, you will have to accept that some watches will look quite big on your wrist. And that’s okay if you stick to the upcoming points.</p><p>However, if you like vintage watches, rejoice! You have plenty of models ranging from 30mm (or even less !) to 38mm. Most are pretty cheap in comparison the value they offer, and they can make great investments too.</p><p>You’ll find a watch suiting your taste without a problem, and you’ll be sure that it will fit your wrists perfectly.&nbsp;Just don’t go overboard and get a 30mm watch if you have 7 inch wrists: it might begin to look really tiny on you.</p><p>Try to keep the watch case size in your range (see the watch size guide table above, depending on your wrists size and preferences).</p><p>But don’t exaggerate and get a small watch because you read that this is what you should do. You’ll end up with what some call a “boy’s watch”: a watch that is too small for you.</p>
Always remember: in any case, you don’t want the lugs to overhang the width of your wrist.
== <span id="Factors_That_Affect_the_Subjective_Watch_Case_Size" class="ez-toc-section"></span>Factors That Affect the Subjective Watch Case Size ==
 
<p>Remember: the case size is only a small portion of the watch size equation. Many other factors will change your perception of a watch size.</p>
Factors That Affect the Subjective Watch Case Size<span id="Factors_That_Affect_the_Subjective_Watch_Case_Size" class="ez-toc-section"></span>Remember: the case size is only a small portion of the watch size equation. Many other factors will change your perception of a watch size.
=== <span id="The_Lug_to_Lug_Distance" class="ez-toc-section"></span>The Lug to Lug Distance ===
 
<p>A really important aspect of a watch size is the lug to lug distance. This is almost as important (if not more) as the watch case size in itself.</p><p>The lug to lug distance is the distance between the lug (or tip) of the watch at the top of the watch head and the lug at the bottom of the watch head.</p><div class="wp-block-image wp-image-365 size-medium"><figure class="aligncenter is-resized">&nbsp;<figcaption class="wp-element-caption">The difference between lug to lug and lug width on an Orient Ray II</figcaption></figure></div><p>The lug to lug distance&nbsp;should be as small as possible to work with your small wrist. Try to keep the watch head within the limits of your wrist width as much as possible.</p><p>The reason is simple: we want the watch head to fit within your wrist width.We don’t want it to stick out or overhang. It just doesn’t look good.</p><p>If you have small wrists, you might have a hard time finding watches that fit within your wrist width.</p><p>My wrists are so thin that most watches visually touch both ends of my wrist. There is just no way around this for me, given my tastes and budget. But I try to keep that lug to lug distance as short as possible.</p><div class="wp-block-image wp-image-365 size-medium"><figure class="aligncenter is-resized">&nbsp;<figcaption class="wp-element-caption">A watch that overhangs your wrist does not look good…</figcaption></figure></div><p>So, what’s a good lug to lug distance for your wrist?</p><p>The lug to lug distance of a watch will suit your wrist when it is 75 to 95% of your wrist width. The variation accounts for the different wrists shapes and personal preferences.</p><p>You see, some of us are blessed, some not so much.&nbsp;The weird thing is that your wrist size (or circumference) does not relate directly to your wrist width.</p><p>If you have a flat wrist, you’re lucky. Most of the circumference of your wrist will serve as the flat area where your watch will sit, allowing for a larger lug to lug distance.</p><p>But if you have thicker or rounder wrists (or if your wrists are very small like mine) well, you’ll have to settle for smaller timepieces. Don’t fear, there are still plenty of great mens watches for small wrists.</p><p>(Again, to have an estimate of your wrist width (its flat surface), you can easily&nbsp;measure your wrist size&nbsp;in millimiters and divide its size by 3. And remember to check in the watch size guide table above what lug to lug distance will work on your wrist.)</p><p>Now, an interesting thing is that the lug to lug distance is not in direct proportion to a watch size.&nbsp;Some 41mm watches have ridiculously long lugs, with a 50mm lug to lug distance (I’m looking at you, Tudor Black Bay!).</p><p>Some are the exact opposite. A notable example is my beloved Citizen Promaster Nighthawk: 42mm in diameter for 46.5mm lug to lug distance only!</p><div class="wp-block-image wp-image-367 size-medium"><figure class="aligncenter is-resized">&nbsp;<figcaption class="wp-element-caption">The Citizen Promaster Nighthawk and its short lug to lug distance compared to the case size – Check it on Amazon</figcaption></figure></div><p>So always try to know (or measure by yourself) the lug to lug distance before committing to buying a watch. And remember: a small watch doesn’t always have a short lug to lug distance.</p><p>The good thing is: the other way around is true too!</p>
The Lug to Lug Distance<span id="The_Lug_to_Lug_Distance" class="ez-toc-section"></span>A really important aspect of a watch size is the lug to lug distance. This is almost as important (if not more) as the watch case size in itself.
=== <span id="The_Shape_of_the_Lugs_Flat_vs_Curved" class="ez-toc-section"></span>The Shape of the Lugs: Flat vs Curved ===
 
<p>Something else to know about the lugs (even if it seems pretty obvious): some are almost flat, and some are more curved.</p><p>If you have smaller wrists, you&nbsp;want to get a watch with curved lugs as they will hug your wrist better, and not stick out like marshmallow roasting sticks.</p><p>And if you really like a watch with flat lugs, just make sure that the lug to lug distance is still within your wrist width for the best results.</p><div class="wp-block-image wp-image-368 size-medium"><figure class="aligncenter is-resized">&nbsp;<figcaption class="wp-element-caption">Flat lugs vs curved lugs. Smaller wrists want curved lugs, larger wrists can choose to their hearts content.</figcaption></figure></div><p>Trust me: I’ve bought 3 watches with a 50mm lug to lug distance and flat lugs. The watch would not sit flush against my wrist at the lug tip, leaving a big and gap between the tip of the lug and my wrist.</p><p>Not to mention that they overhung… Not only was it painful to look at, but it was really uncomfortable. Don’t make the same mistake.</p>
The lug to lug distance is the distance between the lug (or tip) of the watch at the top of the watch head and the lug at the bottom of the watch head.&gt;
=== <span id="The_Hour_Markers_Circle" class="ez-toc-section"></span>The Hour Markers Circle ===
 
<p>Okay, now we’re getting serious. Remember when I said that the watch case size is not everything? Well, here is a not so obvious reason why.</p><p>The&nbsp;hour markers circle size is another important factor that makes a watch look bigger or smaller. Maybe you read or heard some people telling that a “42 mm watch wears like a 40 mm”.</p><p>This is because the hour markers circle size is small for the watch case.</p><p>This is not really a physical dimension, but it’s one that is most definitely visible when you look at the dial of a watch.</p><p>The hour markers circle size is measured from one tip of an hour marker on the dial to the tip of the opposite hour marker.</p><p>Again, you can get more information about this in my&nbsp;How To Measure A Watch Case Size article.</p><div class="wp-block-image wp-image-369 size-medium"><figure class="aligncenter is-resized">&nbsp;<figcaption class="wp-element-caption">The hour markers circle size changes your perception of the size of a watch.</figcaption></figure></div><p>As you can see on my Citizen Promaster Nighthawk (on the left), the crystal is huge. It fills most of the 42 mm case, yet the hour markers circle only measures 26 mm.</p><p>On the other end of the spectrum, that 42 mm Hamilton Pilot Day Date Automatic&nbsp;(Amazon link) has a whopping 35 mm hour markers circle size. Yet it has the exact same case size than the Citizen!</p><p>I love the Hamilton, but it looks huge on me – even with its 48 mm lug to lug distance.</p><p>The Hamilton has thick lines at the edge of the dial that really stand out in real life (more than the numbers). That’s why I measured the hour markers circle there.</p><p>As soon as I began to get this measurement on watches – either in real life or on pictures – I could know if a watch would suit my wrist (granted the case size and lug to lug distance was good too).</p><p>On my 6 inch wrist, I find that 30mm is as big as the hour markers circle can get. I only get a watch with a greater hour markers circle size if all the other boxes are ticked and I really, really, really like it.</p><p>So, watch out for this hour markers circle.</p>
The lug to lug distance&nbsp;should be as small as possible to work with your small wrist. Try to keep the watch head within the limits of your wrist width as much as possible.
=== <span id="The_Bezel" class="ez-toc-section"></span>The Bezel ===
 
<p>Watches with a bezel have a smaller hour makers circle, and so will look smaller. A 40mm watch with a bezel will always look smaller than a 40mm watch with no bezel.</p><p>For example, my Orient Ray 2 has a case size of 41.5mm. Yet it looks smaller than my Seiko SRPB41, measuring only 40.5mm.</p><p>Why?</p><p>The Orient has a 25mm hour markers circle, while the one on the Seiko is 32mm! (I know I said 30mm is the maximum for me, but I don’t care, I really, really like it :P)</p><div class="wp-block-image wp-image-370 size-medium"><figure class="aligncenter is-resized">&nbsp;<figcaption class="wp-element-caption">The Orient Ray 2 (on the left), while bigger, looks smaller that the Seiko SRPB41</figcaption></figure></div><p>If sports watches are more your thing, finding a watch that will suit your small wrist should be fairly easy. Sports watches often feature a bezel.</p><p>The two most common bezel types are the ones you find on dive watches and chronographs.</p>
The reason is simple: we want the watch head to fit within your wrist width.We don’t want it to stick out or overhang. It just doesn’t look good.
 
If you have small wrists, you might have a hard time finding watches that fit within your wrist width.
 
My wrists are so thin that most watches visually touch both ends of my wrist. There is just no way around this for me, given my tastes and budget. But I try to keep that lug to lug distance as short as possible.&gt;
 
'''So, what’s a good lug to lug distance for your wrist?'''
 
The lug to lug distance of a watch will suit your wrist when it is 75 to 95% of your wrist width. The variation accounts for the different wrists shapes and personal preferences.
 
You see, some of us are blessed, some not so much.
 
The weird thing is that your wrist size (or circumference) does not relate directly to your wrist width.
 
If you have a flat wrist, you’re lucky. Most of the circumference of your wrist will serve as the flat area where your watch will sit, allowing for a larger lug to lug distance.
 
But if you have thicker or rounder wrists (or if your wrists are very small like mine) well, you’ll have to settle for smaller timepieces. Don’t fear, there are still plenty of great mens watches for small wrists.
 
(Again, to have an estimate of your wrist width (its flat surface), you can easily&nbsp;measure your wrist size&nbsp;in millimiters and divide its size by 3. And remember to check in the watch size guide table above what lug to lug distance will work on your wrist.)
 
Now, an interesting thing is that the lug to lug distance is not in direct proportion to a watch size.&nbsp;Some 41mm watches have ridiculously long lugs, with a 50mm lug to lug distance (I’m looking at you, Tudor Black Bay!).
 
Some are the exact opposite. A notable example is my beloved Citizen Promaster Nighthawk: 42mm in diameter for 46.5mm lug to lug distance only!&gt;
 
So always try to know (or measure by yourself) the lug to lug distance before committing to buying a watch. And remember: a small watch doesn’t always have a short lug to lug distance.
 
The good thing is: the other way around is true too!
 
'''The Shape of the Lugs: Flat vs Curved'''
 
Something else to know about the lugs (even if it seems pretty obvious): some are almost flat, and some are more curved.
 
If you have smaller wrists, you&nbsp;want to get a watch with curved lugs as they will hug your wrist better, and not stick out like marshmallow roasting sticks.
 
And if you really like a watch with flat lugs, just make sure that the lug to lug distance is still within your wrist width for the best results.&gt;
 
Trust me: I’ve bought 3 watches with a 50mm lug to lug distance and flat lugs. The watch would not sit flush against my wrist at the lug tip, leaving a big and gap between the tip of the lug and my wrist.
 
Not to mention that they overhung… Not only was it painful to look at, but it was really uncomfortable. Don’t make the same mistake.
 
'''The Hour Markers Circle'''
 
Okay, now we’re getting serious. Remember when I said that the watch case size is not everything? Well, here is a not so obvious reason why.
 
The&nbsp;hour markers circle size is another important factor that makes a watch look bigger or smaller. Maybe you read or heard some people telling that a “42 mm watch wears like a 40 mm”.
 
This is because the hour markers circle size is small for the watch case.
 
This is not really a physical dimension, but it’s one that is most definitely visible when you look at the dial of a watch.
 
The hour markers circle size is measured from one tip of an hour marker on the dial to the tip of the opposite hour marker.
 
Again, you can get more information about this in my&nbsp;How To Measure A Watch Case Size article.&gt;
 
As you can see on my Citizen Promaster Nighthawk (on the left), the crystal is huge. It fills most of the 42 mm case, yet the hour markers circle only measures 26 mm.
 
On the other end of the spectrum, that 42 mm Hamilton Pilot Day Date Automatic&nbsp;(Amazon link) has a whopping 35 mm hour markers circle size. Yet it has the exact same case size than the Citizen!
 
I love the Hamilton, but it looks huge on me – even with its 48 mm lug to lug distance.
 
The Hamilton has thick lines at the edge of the dial that really stand out in real life (more than the numbers). That’s why I measured the hour markers circle there.
 
As soon as I began to get this measurement on watches – either in real life or on pictures – I could know if a watch would suit my wrist (granted the case size and lug to lug distance was good too).
 
On my 6 inch wrist, I find that 30mm is as big as the hour markers circle can get. I only get a watch with a greater hour markers circle size if all the other boxes are ticked and I really, really, really like it.
 
So, watch out for this hour markers circle.
 
'''The Bezel'''
 
Watches with a bezel have a smaller hour makers circle, and so will look smaller. A 40mm watch with a bezel will always look smaller than a 40mm watch with no bezel.
 
For example, my Orient Ray 2 has a case size of 41.5mm. Yet it looks smaller than my Seiko SRPB41, measuring only 40.5mm.
 
Why?
 
The Orient has a 25mm hour markers circle, while the one on the Seiko is 32mm! (I know I said 30mm is the maximum for me, but I don’t care, I really, really like it :P)&gt;
 
If sports watches are more your thing, finding a watch that will suit your small wrist should be fairly easy. Sports watches often feature a bezel.
 
The two most common bezel types are the ones you find on dive watches and chronographs.
*The first one features a rotating bezel counting the elapsed time underwater by 5 minutes increments.
*The first one features a rotating bezel counting the elapsed time underwater by 5 minutes increments.
*The second one is a tachymeter, giving you a speed by timing the time you take to drive one mile.
*The second one is a tachymeter, giving you a speed by timing the time you take to drive one mile.
<p>There are other bezels out there, but they will all reduce the hour markers circle size, so pick your favorite one.</p><p>Some dress watches feature a bezel too, but not as thick and prominent as the one you might find on sports watches.</p><p>If you’re really into the more dressier side of watches, pay attention and get a watch with a bezel (that is part of the case, most of the time), if possible.</p><div class="wp-block-image size-full"><figure class="aligncenter is-resized">&nbsp;<figcaption class="wp-element-caption">The Rolex Explorer – Check it on Amazon</figcaption></figure></div><p>For example, the Rolex Explorer above (which looks stunning, by the way) has a fixed polished bezel that will reduce the size of the dial. And consequently, the hour markers circle as well.</p>
There are other bezels out there, but they will all reduce the hour markers circle size, so pick your favorite one.
=== <span id="The_Chapter_Ring" class="ez-toc-section"></span>The Chapter Ring ===
 
<p>Sometimes, the rotating bezel is not on the outside of the watch, but rather under the crystal. Inside the case, it’s not called a bezel, but a chapter ring.</p><p>And guess what: a chapter ring also changes the perception you have of a watch size. It will give you the same benefit as a bezel, but with a different look: you’ll get a much bigger crystal.</p><p>Just be aware that a watch with a bigger crystal will still always look bigger than a watch with a smaller crystal.</p><p>But once you know that, it all depends on the look you’re after. Bezel or chapter ring? It’s up to you.</p><p>Many watches have chapter rings, including watches with bezels. Some are thin, some are large. Some are fixed, some are rotating.</p><p>It doesn’t matter, they have the same effect: they keep the hour markers away from the edge of the case. So that the subjective size of a watch with a chapter ring will be smaller.</p><p>One of the most pleasing chapter rings you get (in my opinion) is the one you find on some pilot watches: the slide rule.</p><p>It looks good and it’s super useful (to convert currencies while abroad, for example). Another popular chapter ring is the compass you find on hiking watches. Again, pick your favorite style.</p><div class="wp-block-image wp-image-371 size-medium"><figure class="aligncenter is-resized">&nbsp;<figcaption class="wp-element-caption">A slide rule and a compass, both being a rotating chapter ring in this case.</figcaption></figure></div>
Some dress watches feature a bezel too, but not as thick and prominent as the one you might find on sports watches.
=== <span id="The_Color_of_the_Dial_Dark_vs_Light" class="ez-toc-section"></span>The Color of the Dial: Dark vs Light ===
 
<p>If you take two exact same watches – one with a light dial and one with a dark dial – the one with a dark dial will always look smaller. This is because of the way our brain perceives the light reflected by objects.</p><div class="wp-block-image wp-image-374 size-medium"><figure class="aligncenter is-resized">&nbsp;<figcaption class="wp-element-caption">A watch with a light dial and the same one with a dark dial. The one with the darker dial will appear smaller in real life.</figcaption></figure></div><p>Of course, you don’t have to get a black watch just because it looks smaller.</p><p>But if you have smaller wrists and you like light dials, you should get a watch with a smaller case size and hour markers circle size than you would normally get to compensate that perception.</p>
If you’re really into the more dressier side of watches, pay attention and get a watch with a bezel (that is part of the case, most of the time), if possible.&gt;
=== <span id="The_Case_Thickness" class="ez-toc-section"></span>The Case Thickness ===
 
<p>Thin watches for the win!</p><p>One last thing about the watch case itself.&nbsp;A watch will always look a bit smaller if it’s thinner. The effect is not as visible as having a small case size, lug to lug distance, hour markers circle, or dark dial, but it certainly helps.</p><p>You’ll have an easier time getting a thin watch by getting a dress watch (quartz or mechanical). Most quartz watches are super thin too.</p><p>You’ll get the added benefits of having a watch that fits easily under the cuff, and that is lightweight and comfortable to wear.</p><p>Thick watches (of more than 12mm) tend to be really top heavy, especially if you wear them on a band or strap.They might turn around your wrist and will always look a bit bigger.</p>
For example, the Rolex Explorer above (which looks stunning, by the way) has a fixed polished bezel that will reduce the size of the dial. And consequently, the hour markers circle as well.
== <span id="Watch_and_Strap_Sizing_FAQs" class="ez-toc-section"></span>Watch and Strap Sizing FAQs ==
 
<p>Here are the answers to some common questions about watch sizing.</p>
'''The Chapter Ring'''
=== <span id="How_Do_I_Choose_a_Watch_Size" class="ez-toc-section"></span>How Do I Choose a Watch Size? ===
 
<p>The easiest way to choose a watch size is by using your wrist size and comparing it to the watch case size and lug to lug distance using the chart above.</p><p>We recommend a case size that’s 60% to 75% of your flat wrist width and a lug to lug distance that’s 75% to 95% of your wrist width.</p>
Sometimes, the rotating bezel is not on the outside of the watch, but rather under the crystal. Inside the case, it’s not called a bezel, but a chapter ring.
=== <span id="Are_Watches_One_Size_Fits_All" class="ez-toc-section"></span>Are Watches One Size Fits All? ===
 
<p>It depends. If you have a fairly average wrist size, then you probably don’t need to worry too much about watch or strap size.</p><p>But there’s also a lot of misinformation out there in the form of people wearing watches that are too big (more common) or too small (less common). That’s why it’s important to know your wrist size.</p>
And guess what: a chapter ring also changes the perception you have of a watch size. It will give you the same benefit as a bezel, but with a different look: you’ll get a much bigger crystal.
=== <span id="Can_You_Adjust_the_Size_of_a_Watch" class="ez-toc-section"></span>Can You Adjust the Size of a Watch? ===
 
<p>No. You can adjust the size of the strap, but there’s no way to reduce the size of the watch case.</p>
Just be aware that a watch with a bigger crystal will still always look bigger than a watch with a smaller crystal.
=== <span id="How_Do_You_Tell_if_a_Watch_Is_Too_Big_for_Your_Wrist" class="ez-toc-section"></span>How Do You Tell if a Watch Is Too Big for Your Wrist? ===
 
<p>The easiest way to tell is by simply looking at it. If it looks too big, it probably is. You can also use our suggested parameters shown above to help guide you toward the right size.</p>
But once you know that, it all depends on the look you’re after. Bezel or chapter ring? It’s up to you.
=== <span id="What_Size_Watch_Band_Do_I_Need" class="ez-toc-section"></span>What Size Watch Band Do I Need? ===
 
<p>The size of watch band you need for a watch depends on two factors: the lug width of the watch case, which correlates to strap width, and the circumference of your wrist, which correlates to strap length. See our sizing chart above for more information.</p>
Many watches have chapter rings, including watches with bezels. Some are thin, some are large. Some are fixed, some are rotating.
=== <span id="Is_a_40mm_Watch_Too_Big_for_a_6-Inch_Wrist" class="ez-toc-section"></span>Is a 40mm Watch Too Big for a 6-Inch Wrist? ===
 
<p>Yep—we recommend not going above 38mm for a 6” wrist. (That said, if the 40mm watch has a short lug to lug distance, you may be able to get away with it, but it’s unlikely.)</p>
It doesn’t matter, they have the same effect: they keep the hour markers away from the edge of the case. So that the subjective size of a watch with a chapter ring will be smaller.
 
One of the most pleasing chapter rings you get (in my opinion) is the one you find on some pilot watches: the slide rule.
 
It looks good and it’s super useful (to convert currencies while abroad, for example). Another popular chapter ring is the compass you find on hiking watches. Again, pick your favorite style.
 
'''The Color of the Dial: Dark vs Light'''
 
If you take two exact same watches – one with a light dial and one with a dark dial – the one with a dark dial will always look smaller. This is because of the way our brain perceives the light reflected by objects.&gt;
 
Of course, you don’t have to get a black watch just because it looks smaller.
 
But if you have smaller wrists and you like light dials, you should get a watch with a smaller case size and hour markers circle size than you would normally get to compensate that perception.
 
'''The Case Thickness'''
 
Thin watches for the win!
 
One last thing about the watch case itself.&nbsp;A watch will always look a bit smaller if it’s thinner. The effect is not as visible as having a small case size, lug to lug distance, hour markers circle, or dark dial, but it certainly helps.
 
You’ll have an easier time getting a thin watch by getting a dress watch (quartz or mechanical). Most quartz watches are super thin too.
 
You’ll get the added benefits of having a watch that fits easily under the cuff, and that is lightweight and comfortable to wear.
 
Thick watches (of more than 12mm) tend to be really top heavy, especially if you wear them on a band or strap.They might turn around your wrist and will always look a bit bigger.
 
'''Watch and Strap Sizing FAQs'''
 
Here are the answers to some common questions about watch sizing.
 
'''How Do I Choose a Watch Size?'''
 
The easiest way to choose a watch size is by using your wrist size and comparing it to the watch case size and lug to lug distance using the chart above.
 
We recommend a case size that’s 60% to 75% of your flat wrist width and a lug to lug distance that’s 75% to 95% of your wrist width.
 
'''Are Watches One Size Fits All?'''
 
It depends. If you have a fairly average wrist size, then you probably don’t need to worry too much about watch or strap size.
 
But there’s also a lot of misinformation out there in the form of people wearing watches that are too big (more common) or too small (less common). That’s why it’s important to know your wrist size.
 
'''Can You Adjust the Size of a Watch?'''
 
No. You can adjust the size of the strap, but there’s no way to reduce the size of the watch case.
 
'''How Do You Tell if a Watch Is Too Big for Your Wrist?'''
 
The easiest way to tell is by simply looking at it. If it looks too big, it probably is.
 
'''What Size Watch Band Do I Need?'''
 
The size of watch band you need for a watch depends on two factors: the lug width of the watch case, which correlates to strap width, and the circumference of your wrist, which correlates to strap length. See our sizing chart above for more information.
 
'''Is a 40mm Watch Too Big for a 6-Inch Wrist?'''
 
Yep—we recommend not going above 38mm for a 6” wrist. (That said, if the 40mm watch has a short lug to lug distance, you may be able to get away with it, but it’s unlikely.)
 
== Guide to the Best Budget Mid-Tier Watches ($250-$400) ==
== Guide to the Best Budget Mid-Tier Watches ($250-$400) ==
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">Mid-Tier Replicas ($250-400)</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">On a budget? That's okay! This list is for you. These are not the $500+ versions with super clone movements or hyper fine details. These are the better than bottom barrel, 'good enough' versions.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">''Last Update: October 25, 2022''</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">All models with an * are considered High tier (aka the best you can get and are quite good).</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Rolex:</strong></p>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">Mid-Tier Replicas ($250-400)</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">On a budget? That's okay! This list is for you. These are not the $500+ versions with super clone movements or hyper fine details. These are the better than bottom barrel, 'good enough' versions.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">All models with an * are considered High tier (aka the best you can get and are quite good).</p>
=== <span class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Rolex</span> ===
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Submariner 116610LN, LV and others:</strong>&nbsp;BP Factory ($350) (ZF 116610LN is $400), VRF ($320-$350)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Submariner 116610LN, LV and others:</strong>&nbsp;BP Factory ($350) (ZF 116610LN is $400), VRF ($320-$350)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Submariner 126610LN, LV and others:</strong>&nbsp;BP Factory ($350)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Submariner 126610LN, LV and others:</strong>&nbsp;BP Factory ($350)</p>
Line 693: Line 3,919:
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Oyster Perpetual 41 and 36:</strong>&nbsp;BP Factory ($320)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Oyster Perpetual 41 and 36:</strong>&nbsp;BP Factory ($320)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Yachtmaster 40mm:</strong>&nbsp;VRF with 2836 movement ($350-$370)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Yachtmaster 40mm:</strong>&nbsp;VRF with 2836 movement ($350-$370)</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Audemars Piguet:</strong></p>
 
=== <span class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Audemars Piguet</span> ===
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">*<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">15450 Royal Oak 37mm:</strong>&nbsp;JF for $380</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">*<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">15450 Royal Oak 37mm:</strong>&nbsp;JF for $380</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">15400 Royal Oak 41mm:</strong>&nbsp;APSF v1 (might not be widely available) for $300</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">15400 Royal Oak 41mm:</strong>&nbsp;APSF v1 (might not be widely available) for $300</p>
Line 699: Line 3,926:
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">15703 RO Offshore:</strong>&nbsp;ROF ($400)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">15703 RO Offshore:</strong>&nbsp;ROF ($400)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">No other 'good enough' reps for AP. Recommend higher price bracket. See AP section for who makes the best.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">No other 'good enough' reps for AP. Recommend higher price bracket. See AP section for who makes the best.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Patek Philippe:</strong></p>
 
=== <span class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Patek Philippe</span> ===
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Nautilus:</strong>&nbsp;BP Factory for $350.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Nautilus:</strong>&nbsp;BP Factory for $350.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Aquanaut:</strong>&nbsp;BP Factory for $350 (unsure if still made)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Aquanaut:</strong>&nbsp;BP Factory for $350 (unsure if still made)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Calatrava 5296:</strong>&nbsp;ZF for $400</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Calatrava 5296:</strong>&nbsp;ZF for $400</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Still recommend higher price bracket for Nautilus and Aquanaut</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Still recommend higher price bracket for Nautilus and Aquanaut</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Vacheron Constantin:</strong></p>
=== <span class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Vacheron Constantin:</span> ===
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">*<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Patrimony Date:</strong>&nbsp;PPF for $318</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">*<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Patrimony Date:</strong>&nbsp;PPF for $318</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">No other good recommendations - for Overseas go for ZF (higher price bracket)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">No other good recommendations - for Overseas go for ZF (higher price bracket)</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Tudor</strong></p>
=== <span class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Tudor</span> ===
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">*<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">BB58:</strong>&nbsp;ZF ($300)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">*<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">BB58:</strong>&nbsp;ZF ($300)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">*<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">BB36:</strong>&nbsp;KRF ($340)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">*<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">BB36:</strong>&nbsp;KRF ($340)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Pelagos:</strong>&nbsp;ZF ($360)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Pelagos:</strong>&nbsp;ZF ($360)</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Omega</strong></p>
=== <span class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Omega</span> ===
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Planet Ocean 600m 39.5mm:</strong>&nbsp;VSF ($390)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Planet Ocean 600m 39.5mm:</strong>&nbsp;VSF ($390)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Seamaster Diver 300m:</strong>&nbsp;VSF/SBF with clone ($390), ZF with modified 2824 ($360)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Seamaster Diver 300m:</strong>&nbsp;VSF/SBF with clone ($390), ZF with modified 2824 ($360)</p>
Line 717: Line 3,945:
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Speedmaster Racing Chrono 40mm:</strong>&nbsp;HRF ($380)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Speedmaster Racing Chrono 40mm:</strong>&nbsp;HRF ($380)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Seamaster Aqua Terra 150m:</strong>&nbsp;VSF ($400)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Seamaster Aqua Terra 150m:</strong>&nbsp;VSF ($400)</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Cartier:</strong></p>
=== <span class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Cartier</span> ===
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">*<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Tank Louis:</strong>&nbsp;DRF for $248</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">*<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Tank Louis:</strong>&nbsp;DRF for $248</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Tank Solo:</strong>&nbsp;K11 for $280</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Tank Solo:</strong>&nbsp;K11 for $280</p>
Line 723: Line 3,951:
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Santos:</strong>&nbsp;F1</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Santos:</strong>&nbsp;F1</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Ballon Bleu 42:</strong>&nbsp;AF ($200-250)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Ballon Bleu 42:</strong>&nbsp;AF ($200-250)</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">IWC</strong></p>
=== <span class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">IWC</span> ===
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">*<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Portofino:</strong>&nbsp;V7F ($310)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">*<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Portofino:</strong>&nbsp;V7F ($310)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Mark XVIII Pilot:</strong>&nbsp;V7F ($350)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">*Mark XVIII Pilot:</strong>&nbsp;V7F ($350)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">There are more &lt;$400 IWC model available, check TD websites.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">There are more &lt;$400 IWC model available, check TD websites.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Jaeger LeCoultre</strong></p>
=== <span class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Jaeger LeCoultre</span> ===
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Master Ultra Thin Moonphase:</strong>&nbsp;AZF ($380)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Master Ultra Thin Moonphase:</strong>&nbsp;AZF ($380)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Reserve de Marche:</strong>&nbsp;ZF ($390)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Reserve de Marche:</strong>&nbsp;ZF ($390)</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Panerai -</strong>&nbsp;There are reps that are &lt;$400, but look for anything by VSF from a TD website</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Richard Mille</strong>&nbsp;- nothing noteworthy in this price range.</p><p>[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/ydj6h7/guide_best_budget_midtier_replicas_250400/ Source]</p>
=== <span class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Panerai</span> ===
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">There are reps that are &lt;$400, but look for anything by VSF from a TD website</p>
=== <span class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Richard Mille</span> ===
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Nothing noteworthy in this price range.</p>
<p>[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/ydj6h7/guide_best_budget_midtier_replicas_250400/ Source]</p>
 
== Guide to Watch Movements ==
<p>'''Common movements used in rep watches'''</p>
 
'''Non-chrono'''<p>1. 21J/DG2813 (note that despite the “21J” description these movements usually run 23 jewels). This is a generic term used to cover a wide variety of cheap Chinese movements – some are better than others, but as a general rule they are low-beat (21,600vph / 6 ‘ticks’ per second) movements, very cheaply built (from as little as $7 for the whole movement) but generally reliable and easy to live with. Usually automatic, but occasionally hand wind, dependent on the watch. A lot of really nice budget watches come with these fitted and whilst the sweep isn’t as smooth as, say, a gen Rolex, they’re damned good value for money and can just be thrown away and replaced if they break or need a service.</p><p>There’s also the DG4813 variant, which is high-beat but this has become very difficult to obtain of late, so is not commonly seen. It has largely been replaced by the Z2 (see below)</p><p>2. Z2 aka ‘high beat 2813’ aka various other names. Some have suggested that this is one to avoid, but it’s not quite that clear cut. Basically a cheap 28,800vph alternative to the “Asian ETA” movements, these are occasionally swapped into existing models by the factories without informing the dealers. Reliability&nbsp;''can be''&nbsp;okay – provided you get a good one. The real issue is that there are no parts available, so servicing can be a problem. The Asian ETAs are a&nbsp;'''much'''&nbsp;better choice, but these are maybe worth considering if the price is right – just don’t be conned into buying high-priced reps with ’em, it ain’t worth it.</p><p>3. Asian ‘clone’ ETA (A2824/A2836 & variants): These are literally copies/clones of the equivalent Swiss (ETA) automatic movements. Generally high quality – although not as well built as the Swiss equivalents – but reliable and with parts generally available (which makes servicing an easier proposition than some other movements). High beat (28,800) and great value. Probably the best choice of movement for higher-quality reps as they give the smooth sweep found in most gen watches</p><p>4. Swiss ETA (2836/2824 as above): Supposedly the genuine ETA (owned by swatch group) swiss automatic movements. This is a complete lottery. ETA have not been supplying ebauches outside Swatch group for several years now. There are NO new ETA movements in reps any more – only refurbished (usually with Asian parts). On top of that, as anyone who’s been in the game for a while should know, factories tell the dealer the spec of the watch they’re producing – and the dealers then use that for their sales pitch. That spec often then changes dependent on what parts the factories have available on a particular day – about which they DO NOT inform the dealers. Given that dealers DO NOT take the back off the watch during QC (nor should they), they’re as much in the dark about it as you. At best you get a refurbished (i.e. used) movement with asian parts in it. I wouldn’t recommend spending extra for ETA in a rep these days – more often than not, you’ll be getting an asian clone.</p><p>5. Sellita: As mentioned above, supply of ETA movements is getting very difficult as Swatch group are no longer selling ebauches outside their own group of companies. Sellita are another Swiss company who make a very similar range of high-quality movements. We’ve seen a few reps with “Swiss ETA” being supplied with Sellitas, but they’re fairly rare.</p><p>6. Rolex 3135 copy (and other Rolex clone movements). This is an Asian clone ETA automatic movement with modified rotor and bridges to make it look more like the real thing. It’s not going to convince anybody who knows their Rolex movements and tends to be less reliable than the alternatives (as well as being more expensive!). There are newer versions beginning to appear which are a little more reliable and look closer to the gen, but they are still near impossible to service and generally inferior to the clone ETAs. Rolex have closed casebacks anyhow, so I really don’t see the point in paying the extra for what is, effectively, just a higher-priced and less reliable Asian clone movement.</p><p>There is one notable exception to the above – the Yuki-sourced movement used by JF in their new (as of 2017) high-end subs. This is a proper copy of the Rolex movements (to the extent of being compatible with a lot of gen parts) and is much better quality than the modified Asian ETA-based clones otherwise supplied in reps. A good movement and well worth consideration.</p><p>7. Miyota 9015. With the disappearance of gen ETA movements, some reps are now coming with Japanese Miyota-sourced movements. The 9015 is a case in point – a high-beat 28,800vph 25 jewel movement that is an excellent alternative to ETA or clone ETA models mentioned above. Highly reliable and very good quality. Don’t hesitate.</p><p>8. Miyota 8215. As above, a solid workhorse movement. The only gotcha is that the second hand on these movements tends to stutter a little and is therefore a lot less smooth than the 9015 or, say, an Asian 2836 clone. The amount of stutter is dependent on the weight of the second hand – the heavier/longer the hand, the worse it’s going to be. I’d certainly avoid this movement on watches such as Tudors which tend to have “snowflake” hands. Although the 8215 is reliable, for this reason I would tend to think carefully before buying a watch with this movement.</p><p>9. Sea-Gull. Sea-Gull are a chinese maker of both movements and watches. Quality is very close to that of the Swiss and Japanese manufacturers and they’re generally a very safe buy – they make clones of several well-known movements (such as the 6497) as well as their own designs. The ST2555 has lately been turning up in quite a few reps. As with Miyota, they’re a good choice. Don’t hesitate.</p><p>10. A6497/A6498: An Asian copy of the Unitas 6497 or 6498 movement. Common in Panerai and various others – it’s an ultra-reliable yet inexpensive hand wind movement available with or without swan-neck regulator. Note, however, that there are several different grades and some are better built than others. However, they’re easy to service and generally bombproof. Either 18,000vph (5 ‘ticks’ per second) or 21600 vph (6 ‘ticks’ per second) but it is hard to tell the difference visually due to the short seconds hand (where fitted). It can come with or without a seconds hand, but usually with. If it has a seconds hand, the 6497 has the seconds hand opposite the crown (i.e. at 9 if the crown is at 3) whereas the 6498 has the seconds 90 degrees to the left of the crown (i.e. at 6 if the crown is at 3).</p><p>11. Swiss Unitas 6497/6498: Again, a hand wind movement. They used to be found in some higher-end Panerai reps but that has now ended since ETA quit supplying ebauches outside Swatch Group some years back.</p><p>12. Molnija: Not common these days, but DSN and others have used them on occasion – mainly for vintage Panerai models. This is actually a Russian-built descendant of the Cortebert (latterly Rolex) hand-wind pocketwatch movements used by Panerai and others in the 40s-50s. Very high quality but parts can be tricky to obtain. Functionally similar to the 6497 above and generally reliable, but less robust than the 6497.</p><p>13. Asian 52010 aka Liaoning SL6601. This movement has started to appear in the IWC 5007 and could, of course, turn up in other reps with similar functions in due course. It supports secs@9, PR @3 plus date. Liaoning are another well-established Chinese maker of movements – quality is generally good, although parts can be difficult to obtain. Should be relatively easy to service and reliability appears to be decent.</p><p>Then there are a few that don’t fit any of the above groups. Movements advertised as “Asian 23J with power reserve” being probably the most common. These can vary from being basic 21J’s with an added module for the PR complication to something like Sea Gull’s 23J PR movement – the latter being of rather better quality than most other low-beat autos and likely to be long-term reliable. You’ll also see ‘Asian 35J” movements advertised fairly frequently – which can also be from a range of sources but are often higher-quality generic Chinese movements similar to the Sea-Gull mentioned above – not as good as a normal Asian clone or other mainstream movement and generally low-beat, but can be good value for money in the right rep. One last oddity worth mentioning is the A7750 as described below. This is sometimes used as a regular automatic movement with the chrono complications removed (most often in Panerai autos). In this form it is much less fragile and many of the caveats mentioned elsewhere no longer apply. Likewise you will – even more rarely – find the same non-chrono A7750 with the auto-wind mechanism removed. This essentially removes the fragile parts that can be damaged by hand-winding on the normal version and is, likewise, not subject to most of the caveats noted elsewhere.</p>
 
Chrono<p>Japan OS chrono (aka Japan Quartz aka a variety of other names): Basically cheap quartz chrono movements (i.e. battery powered). Reliable, great timekeepers, cheap. There’s a couple of varieties with different features, but quality is the same. If you can live with a ticking chrono hand (and seconds subdial) rather than the smooth sweep provided by autos, then there’s no reason not to buy one of these. Note that there are ‘smooth sweep’ quartz movements available and they very occasionally show up in reps. They’re a bit more expensive than regular quartz, but good quality. The smooth sweep applies to center seconds (i.e. the chrono hand) only, however – not running seconds in a subdial.</p><p>A7750 (occasionally called Asian Valjoux 7750): The standard automatic chrono movement used in a vast range of replica watches. Usually high-beat (28,800vph), but there is an older low-beat (21,600 vph) variant which still pops up now and again. Occasionally converted to hand-wind and also used in some non-chrono reps. Can be fragile and is difficult to service due to the lack of available spares. When serviced and running properly, however, it’s solid and works well. See the separate sticky about caveats as there are problems with some adaptations to this movement:&nbsp;[http://anonym.to/?http://anonym.to?http://anonym.to?http://anonym.to?http://www.replica-watches-guide.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6101 http://www.replica-watches-guide.com/forum…?showtopic=6101]</p><p>A7753: This is a variant on the A7750 and not a true clone of the Swiss 7753. Its primary difference from the A7750 is that its native position for subdials is 3, 6, 9 as opposed to 6, 9,12 for the 7750. The resulting lack of transfer gearing needed to move the subdials into the more common 3, 6, 9 position reduces the distance between datewheel and dial eliminating the ‘sunken datewheel’ seen on many reps. These movement also frequently feature a pusher (usually flush) at the 10 position which operates quick-set date. So far it has only made it into a handful of fairly recent models (notably Panerai). In other respects it shares the same strengths and weaknesses with its A7750 sibling, but the lack of transfer gearing does make it a little more robust in some cases.</p><p>A7751: This is a goodie as it replicates all the functions of the genuine Swiss movement including working moonphase complication. Found in a limited number of reps (notably a couple of Longines and Patek models). Should be treated gently but generally appears to be reliable.</p><p>Swiss Valjoux 7750: Used to appear in high-priced reps occasionally, but no longer available to the rep makers since ETA quit supplying ebauches to makers outside Swatch Group.</p><p>Copy Venus (or sometimes inaccurately described as Lemania). Actually a Sea Gull ST19 – fundamentally the same as the original Swiss Venus movement as Sea-Gull bought the original tooling. This is an excellent handwind chrono movement. Very reliable and feels like quality. The most robust chrono movement in reps outside of quartz options. Don’t hesitate.</p><p>[https://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?/topic/6930-movements-found-in-replicas-a-quick-faq/ Source]</p>
 
*3Hz is also called 21600bph or 6bps, 4Hz is 28800bph or 8bps.<br>The reason for this disparity (3Hz vs 6bps or 4Hz vs 8bps) is that the balance wheel advances the second hand both on the clockwise turn and counterclockwise turn, so a full turn cycle is 2 beats.
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Chinese 21J, Chinese 23J – no-name movements, based on DG2813 (if you’re lucky) or the Chinese Standard Movement and company, that the Chinese have perfected… mostly when it comes to cost of production – they can make a shitty versions for under 10 dollars, but you cannot expect any kind of reliability from it. The worst versions can be found in Chinese street reps and tend to break after a few months of use. If you ever see something like a Daytona with days of the week and month indicator on the subdials, you can bet it sports one of those bad boys.<br>Some of the more reputable factories sometimes use movement called that and you can expect them to be of a passable to good quality then, but it’s still hit or miss.<br>Most of them are 3Hz, some are 4Hz.</p>
 
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">DG2813 or other DG-something – firstly, it still might be the shitty movements described above (especially if called A2813), them being clones of DG movements, which are in turn clones of old movements from Citizen. If you get an actual DG2813, you should not expect amazing quality, but it is very reasonable for it to work for years (accuracy is another thing though).<br>Most of them are 3Hz, some are 4Hz (e.g. DG4813).</p>
 
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">A2824, A2836 – the best of the best – ETA used to have factories in China, so the Chinese know how to produce the movements. The materials are somewhat worse than ETA required and the quality control is nowhere near what you would find in a gen Breitling or such, but they are reliable, any watchsmith can service or repair them, and replacements are freely available anywhere.<br>They beat at 4Hz.</p>
 
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">A2892 – Chinese copy of a newer, thinner “version” of ETA 2824 – good movement, but way more rare and as such possibly slightly lower quality than the above two. Most of them will probably come from Sea-Gull, which would be good, but they might be QC rejects.<br>They beat at 4Hz.</p>
 
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">A6497/A6498 – clone of ETA Unitas 6497/6498, great movement, simple, handwound, you are most likely to find one in a Panerai rep and you can’t really go wrong with this one.<br>They beat at 3Hz.</p>
 
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Swiss ETA 2824/2836/others – hit or miss – it depends on how the repmakers sourced it and how they stored it. I have a rep with a swiss movement and it performs beautifully, other people report the opposite – problems and having to replace. Could also get a Sellita instead of ETA (which is in no way a bad thing, Sellita is an excellent Swiss movement manufacturer and a former contractor for ETA).<br>They beat at 4Hz unless vintage (check specific model) or Unitas 6497 – 3Hz.</p>
 
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">A775X (X is placeholder for other digits) – ETA Valjoux 775X clone, used in most rep chronographs. More costly to service and harder to source than other Asian ETAs, also more likely to break – all of this because it’s more complex. Check if the positions of the subdials were modified compared to the original – if yes, that’s a major yellow flag when it comes to relability and servicability. There are exceptions – ZF IWC chronos for example started using a sensible mod that you can safely go for.<br>They beat at 4Hz.</p>
 
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">SA3135 – a modded A2836, may accept a genuine Rolex datewheel. Possibly the worst option you can get in a Submariner.<br>They beat at 4Hz.</p>
 
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">SH3135, SH3131, VR3135 – Chinese “superclone” rolex movements, harder to service than A2836, but a lot of people prefer them because they can fit a genuine datedisc on them (not SH3131 because it has no date). Not actual superclones (as in there are differences between those and actual Rolex movements), but can be swapped for a genuine movement if you can get your hands on one.<br>They beat at 4Hz.</p>
 
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">(S)A3186/(S)A3187 – modified asian ETA with contraptions that make it impossible to service and faulty. Best avoided, but currently the only way to get correct hand stack (as in order of hands seconds -&gt; minutes -&gt; 24hr -&gt; 12hr) and setting method in Rolex GMT.<br>They beat at 4Hz.</p>
 
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">A4130 – a weird mod of A7750 with subdials moved and possibly decorated, which is pointless in a closed-caseback watch. Comments about modified A7750s apply.<br>They beat at 4Hz.</p>
 
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">SA4130 – either a complete superclone of Rolex 4130, or an ARF mod of A7750 – check if it’s from Noob Factory and expensive – if yes, its the former, otherwise the latter. ARF SA4130 simply doesn’t use the minutes and hours subdials (they are frozen) so there is little to no problem with added torque. If it’s not a new expensive Noob or ARF, it’s probably A4130 (described above) with an S tacked in front of the name.<br>They beat at 4Hz.</p>
 
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">A8900/A8500 (in Omega reps) – movements modified to look like Omega calibers. Used to be modified ETA clones or even modified Chinese 21J/23J, but lately VSF started boasting a “superclone” version that gives the same functionality as gen. Some people seem to overhype those “superclones” as actual complete cloned movements – this is not actually the case, but they are reportedly more reliable than SA3186/SA3187s which strive to provide a similar functionality. Also, no rep Omega movements have the correct beatrate currently (3.5Hz), none have actual co-axial escapement (to my knowledge), and they use overlays with fake jewels, so take VSF’s “almost the same as genuine movement” with a grain of salt.<br>They beat at 3Hz or 4Hz depending on the movement used as a base. VSF “superclones” beat at 4Hz.</p>
 
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Sea-Gull movements – mostly good movements, but the versions used in reps are not exactly high end (more likely factory QC rejects or lower-tier versions).<br>Check specific model to know beatrate.</p>
 
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Miyota movements – mostly good movements, but the versions used in reps are not exactly high end (more likely factory QC rejects or lower-tier versions). People were high on Miyota 9015 at first (it’s thin like ETA 2892) because it made some thin reps possible, going as far as putting it in Tudor Pelagos for example, but in the end a lot of Miyota9015 reps have noisy rotors (unidirectional rotors can rotate in one direction freely so it’s harder to silence), so their expansion into the rep industry has been halted somewhat. Miyota 8125 is mostly an entry-level movement and often found in Submariner homages for example.<br>Another thing worth mentioning is that SevenFriday reps use Miyota movements for a different reason entirely – the gens also do.<br>9015 beats at 4Hz, 8125 beats at 3Hz, movements in SevenFridays beat at 3Hz (at least all of those I know about).</p><p>Written by [https://www.reddit.com/user/eposseeker/ u/eposseeker]</p>


== Automatic Vs. Quartz. Vs. Mechanical Watch Movements Guide ==
== Omega Buying Guide ==
== Omega Buying Guide ==
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">What models this guide will cover:&nbsp;<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">2018 Seamaster Professional Diver 300m, 2019 Seamaster Diver Titanium model, Seamaster 300 "Spectre", Aqua Terra 8500/8900 series, De Ville Hour Vision, De Ville Prestige (Including Orbis), Constellation</strong>. I will update it time after time, probably the soonest update will be dedicated to Planet Ocean model and then im planning to add info about all 007 limited models.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">If, after reading that guide, you would have any Omega related questions/thoghts, feel free to PM me or comment here.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">1.</strong>&nbsp;[https://www.omegawatches.com/watch-omega-seamaster-diver-300m-omega-co-axial-master-chronometer-42-mm-21030422001001 <strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">2018 Seamaster Professional Diver</strong>]</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Gen Specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 42 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 20 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 13,7 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: In-house Caliber 8800, METAS-certified</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Retail price: around 5200 USD</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">VSF Seamaster Diver 300m V2 Specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 42 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 20 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 14 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: Asian ETA 2824 decorated to Omega 8800 Caliber</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Price: around 350 USD (bracelet version)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Known issues:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Short crown guard in comparison to the gen (minor)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· End links have their 2 mid lines not flat like gen or like bracelet, they are still rounded (like a half pipe), should be flat like on the bracelet.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lume color (some people claim the lume color to be yellowish/greenish instead of being pure white. In my personal opinion its not a flaw, cause it really depends on the lightning very much, not to mention that charged lume changes color. Ive seen some gen watches with the same lume.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Blue model color is a little off</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· In my opinion grey dial needs a little more visible brushing</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Summary:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">All case dimensions are correct (or if 0,3 mm is a flaw for you – almost correct). All the issues with the V1 were corrected with the V2 - pearl, bracelet, black balance wheel. The bezel is great, the crystal AR is great. Movement is reliable and easy to fix if something goes wrong. The engravings on the dial are correct (but sometimes it happens that they have sharp edges, putting attention to this point is needed during the QC, especially blue and grey dials)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Overall It’s a great replica out of the box!</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">BEST current option is to get ZF watch (due to the correct crown guards shape + correct balance regulator pin on the movement) and an ORF bracelet (due to correct end links shape)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">2.</strong>&nbsp;[https://www.omegawatches.com/watch-omega-seamaster-diver-300m-omega-co-axial-master-chronometer-43-5-mm-21092442001001 <strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">2019 Seamaster Ceramic bezel Titanium case</strong>]</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Gen Specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 43,5 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 21 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 15 mm (I actually had to call my AD and ask him to source this info for me, cause they do not have that watch at stock)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: In-house Caliber 8806, METAS-certified</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Retail price: around 8100 USD</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">2019 VSF Seamaster Diver Titanium V2 Specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 43,5 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 21 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 14,5 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: Asian ETA 2824 decorated to Omega 8806 Caliber</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Price: around 410 USD</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">General info:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Main differences from a regular model are case dimensions, material, no DW, dial is made in a opposite way (its matte black with glossy waves)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Flaws I can see:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Bezel dots look flat on VSF (Gen seems to have some depth)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Pearl seems to be too deep on VSF</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Same issue with the crown guard being a little shorter (minor in my opinion)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Summary:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">I think its still a great rep, all the flows are really minor.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">3.</strong>&nbsp;[https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/watch-omega-seamaster-300-omega-master-co-axial-41-mm-23332412101001 <strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Seamaster 300 "Spectre" Limited Edition</strong>]</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Gen Specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Limited series - 7007 pieces</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 41 mm,</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 21 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 14,8 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: In-house Caliber 8400</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Retail price: around 7500 USD</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Seamaster 300 "Spectre" Limited Edition VSF V2 Specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 41 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 21 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 14 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: VSF 8400 Clone movement</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Price: around 370 USD (bracelet version)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Known issues:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Dial on the version 2 was improved with better matte finish, now it looks similar to gen.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Bezel teeth are still not improved. They are supposed to be rectangular shape, but VSF's are circular shape.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· The font on the back cap is a little wrong. "Spectre" should have been written in bold font (kind of more dark), same as 007, but it’s written in a regular as all the other words.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Seconds hand (lollipop one) has a nob on the top of it, instead of being round</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Some people claim bracelet has wrong spacing (I cant judge based on photos) and recommend getting MKF bracelet.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">4.</strong>&nbsp;<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Aqua Terra&nbsp;</strong>[https://www.omegawatches.com/watch-omega-seamaster-aqua-terra-150m-omega-master-co-axial-41-5-mm-23110422102003 <strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">8500</strong>]<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">&nbsp;/&nbsp;</strong>[https://www.omegawatches.com/watch-omega-seamaster-aqua-terra-150m-omega-co-axial-master-chronometer-41-mm-22010412101001 <strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">8900</strong>]<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">&nbsp;series</strong></p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Gen 8900 Specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 41 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 20 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 13,6 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: In-house Caliber 8900, Co-axial</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Retail price: around 5700 USD</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">VSF Aqua Terra 8900 Specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 41 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 20 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 13 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: VSF 8900 clone movement</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Price: around 380 USD (bracelet version)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Short comparison (based on owning both gen and rep):</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· The dial looks absolutely perfect (even considering that my gen is another color, ive tried gen with the same white/orange) at my AD and I consider it "1:1"), it reflects light and changes color same as gen.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· All size dimensions and finishing are right. That 0,6mm thickness difference does not feel on the wrist at all.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· The weight is right. At least they do feel the same in hands. The bracelet is same light as on gen.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· You can actually see the difference in vph when you know its there and your seconds hands are aligned on both watches (it looks like 40 fps with 60 - smth like that, hard to describe)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· The main difference I found is the bracelet feel, it needs an oil bath for sure (mine got it, now its better)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Clasp is a little loose, it does not feel on the wrist unless you actually tap on it.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Also the closest colors are black and white, blue seems to have some purple shade in it (gen does not have it).</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Some people claim that the grey dial DW color is wrong (i went to my AD specifically to check that aspect, IMO it is fine)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Gen 8500 specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 41,5 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 20 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 12,8 (13) mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: In-house Caliber 8500, Co-axial</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Retail price: around 6000 USD</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">VSF Aqua Terra 8500 Specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 41 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 20 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 12 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: VSF 8500 clone movement</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Price: around 340 USD (bracelet version)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">General info:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Main differences with AT 8900</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Size is a little different</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· DW is at 3 marker on 8500 and at 6 at 8900</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Bracelet links are turned upside down on the newer 8900 (links are trapezoids, AT 8900 braclet has its links wide side up and 8500 wide side down)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Different clasp design</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Known issues:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Blue dial is wrong color (VSF did not nail the blue color at all their reps) Black and white are really good.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness (just a little)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Same situation with frequency</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Some people claim the bracelet a little thinner (controversial, did not find any confirmation)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Summary:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Both 8500 and 8900 models are really well repped by VSF. I did not find any info stating that VSF clone movements failed (both movements are available more than for a year), my watch smth also confirmed that the movement is pretty solid. So it will more depend on what design you prefer. Especially if you will choose black or white color.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Bonus</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Updated VSF&nbsp;[https://www.omegawatches.com/watch-omega-seamaster-aqua-terra-150m-omega-master-co-axial-41-5-mm-23110422103004 AT Spectre Gauss 15007]&nbsp;V2:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· New updated dial has its texture really well done (blue color is also correct), may be the ovals need to be a little more smooth - minor</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Rotor is well decorated (same 3D shape as gen)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Summury:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">It absolutely is a winner in comparison with KW (with flat dial and flat rotor) version and a good rep to get.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">5.</strong>&nbsp;[https://www.omegawatches.com/watch-omega-de-ville-hour-vision-omega-co-axial-master-chronometer-41-mm-43333412103001 <strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">De Ville Hour Vision</strong>]</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Gen Specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 41 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 20 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 13 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: In-house Caliber 8500, co-axial</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Retail price: around 7700 USD</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">VSF De Ville Hour Vision 41 8500 Specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 41 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 20 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 13,8 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: VSF 8500 clone movement</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Price: around 438 USD (leather strap version)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The actual comparison found&nbsp;[https://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDA4MzYyMjI1Ng==.html? here]</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Issues found:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· The dial circles surrounding the dial are wrong shape (they have to be engraved a little under the angle to the center of the dial).</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Those circles should have smooth angles (like a pipe) and VSF has them like rectangles.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· The DW window metal surrounding should go down flat till the actual DW (VSF one is not that deep and flat)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· The metal markers on the gen have a big angle on the top of them (while VSF ones are almost flat)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Summary:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Overall they nailed colors really good. Even the blue one. Case shape looks pretty good also. Dial and DW need improvements</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">6.</strong>&nbsp;[https://www.omegawatches.com/ru/watch-omega-de-ville-prestige-co-axial-39-5-mm-42453402004001 <strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">De Ville Prestige</strong>]<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">&nbsp;(including&nbsp;</strong>[https://www.omegawatches.com/watch-omega-de-ville-prestige-co-axial-39-5-mm-42413402003003 <strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Orbis</strong>]<strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">)</strong></p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Gen Specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 39,5 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 20 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 10 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: In-house Caliber 2500, co-axial (its an ETA 2892-2 based movement with added co-axial escapement)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· The watch actually comes in A, B, C and D. AFAIK, C and D are 25,200 VPH while the A and B are 28,800 VPH.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Retail price: around 3900 USD</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">MKF De Ville Prestige Specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 39,5 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 20 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 10 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: Asian Clone ETA 2824-2</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Price: around 270 USD</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">MKF De Ville Prestige issues:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Overall the dial is pretty good (however the white color seems a little off under some lightning)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· DW font is a little off (smaller than gen)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Logo on the clasp looks bigger on MKF than on the gen</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Caseback engravings are deeper and wider on gen.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Summary:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Cant say why it is listed in the NWBIG list, but to my eye it should not be there (at least for now), I mean it’s a good rep, but some work still have to be done (pretty easy work).</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">RXW De Ville Prestige Orbis Specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 39,5 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 20 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 10 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: Asian clone ETA 2892</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Price: around 290 USD</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">RXW De Ville Prestige Orbis issues:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Leather strap color is too light blue comparing to gen</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Date font misalignments</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Summary:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Overall it’s a very decent rep. But changing strap to gen is recommended. Also I recommend asking your TD to send you some more photos of DW with different numbers during QC process.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">7.</strong>&nbsp;[https://www.omegawatches.com/watch-omega-constellation-omega-co-axial-38-mm-12310382101001 <strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Constellation</strong>]</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Gen Specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 38 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 25 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 13 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: In-house Caliber 8500, co-axial</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Retail price: around 5900 USD</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">VSF Constellation 38 8500 Specs:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Width 38 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Lug width 25 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Thickness 13 mm</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Movement: VSF 8500 clone movement</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Price: around 390 USD</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Issues found:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">·&nbsp;[https://www.omegawatches.com/ru/watch-omega-constellation-omega-co-axial-38-mm-12320382103001 Textured dial]&nbsp;models have their texture pretty close, but still lacking the wave texture on the rhombus top right side (except that, they are pretty decent)</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Some colors of dials on VSF are lacking all the brushing, they just have a matte finished dial, when gen has brushed finish centered at the star on the dial. For example black dial lacks it, and brown has it right. I find this strange, but at least it looks like that now. And it’s a major flaw</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">· Also they have the same flow as the De Ville Hour Vision - The DW window metal surrounding should go down flat till the actual DW (VSF one is not that deep and flat), it’s a ladder shape, but needs to be flat and deep sitting</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Summary:</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Since those models are not that popular as some others, I do not really think we will ever get some improvements. And considering that even gens are not so popular in a wild, it will be hard to spot those imperfections. If you like it, you can go for it. I also contacted one TD for providing me some more info about some flat dials, cause its really hard to spot some things on the photos.</p><p>[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/g6tt3z/ultimate_omega_buying_guide/ Source]</p>
== Guide to Known Clasp Codes for Rolex ==
== Guide to Known Clasp Codes for Rolex ==
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">93150 – Submariner – Non SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with fliplock clasp:</strong></p>
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">93150 – Submariner – Non SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with fliplock clasp:</strong></p>
Line 798: Line 4,069:
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">CONUS:</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">CONUS:</p>
[https://www.reddit.com/u/TButtery/ u/TButtery]</div>
[https://www.reddit.com/u/TButtery/ u/TButtery]</div>
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"></div>
 
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">[https://www.reddit.com/u/Navichief/ u/Navichief]</div>
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">[https://www.reddit.com/u/Navichief/ u/Navichief]</div>
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"></div>
 
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">[https://www.reddit.com/u/P4GTR/ u/P4GTR]</div>
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">[https://www.reddit.com/u/P4GTR/ u/P4GTR]</div>
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"></div>
 
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">[https://www.reddit.com/u/Oascom/ u/Oascom]</div>
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">[https://www.reddit.com/u/Oascom/ u/Oascom]</div>
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"></div>
 
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">[https://www.reddit.com/u/MajorWilliams/ u/MajorWilliams]</div>
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">[https://www.reddit.com/u/MajorWilliams/ u/MajorWilliams]</div>
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"></div>
 
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">[https://www.reddit.com/u/WingTrim/ u/WingTrim]
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">[https://www.reddit.com/u/WingTrim/ u/WingTrim]
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">EU:</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">EU:</p>
[https://www.reddit.com/u/Nikz19_WatchService/ u/Nikz19_WatchService]</div>
[https://www.reddit.com/u/Nikz19_WatchService/ u/Nikz19_WatchService]</div>
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"></div>
 
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">[https://www.reddit.com/u/Noleex_The_Modder/ u/Noleex_The_Modder]
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;">[https://www.reddit.com/u/Noleex_The_Modder/ u/Noleex_The_Modder]
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">UK:</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">UK:</p>
Line 817: Line 4,088:


== Beginner’s Guide to Clone Movements in Rolex Replica Watches ==
== Beginner’s Guide to Clone Movements in Rolex Replica Watches ==
<div class="_3xX726aBn29LDbsDtzr_6E _1Ap4F5maDtT1E1YuCiaO0r D3IL3FD0RFy_mkKLPwL4" data-click-id="text" data-adclicklocation="media"><div class="_292iotee39Lmt0MkQZ2hPV RichTextJSON-root"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">When buying a high end replica watch, it’s important to consider both what’s on the outside and what’s on the inside. The factories in China have invested millions of dollars in re-producing exact copies of various Swiss watch movements from ETA, and in-house movements from Rolex, AP, Patek Philippe, and Richard Mille. The accuracy of the replication varies, as does their reliability of these movements. In this guide I hope to be able to give you a basic understanding of which mechanical movements are good, which ones are ok, and which ones to avoid, and importantly, how to tell the various movements apart, since the information listed on Trusted Dealer websites in the descriptions isn’t terribly accurate.</p>
<div class="_3xX726aBn29LDbsDtzr_6E _1Ap4F5maDtT1E1YuCiaO0r D3IL3FD0RFy_mkKLPwL4" data-click-id="text" data-adclicklocation="media"><div class="_292iotee39Lmt0MkQZ2hPV RichTextJSON-root">
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Rolex'''</div>
When buying a high end replica watch, it’s important to consider both what’s on the outside and what’s on the inside. The factories in China have invested millions of dollars in re-producing exact copies of various Swiss watch movements from ETA, and in-house movements from Rolex, AP, Patek Philippe, and Richard Mille. The accuracy of the replication varies, as does their reliability of these movements. In this guide I hope to be able to give you a basic understanding of which mechanical movements are good, which ones are ok, and which ones to avoid, and importantly, how to tell the various movements apart, since the information listed on Trusted Dealer (TD) websites in the descriptions isn’t terribly accurate.
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Rolex has by far the largest market share of all replica watches. As such, it’s not surprising that there are a plethora of clone movements available for the popular Rolex models.</p>
 
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">40mm Submariner (1166XX and 114060)</div>
Rolex has by far the largest market share of all replica watches. As such, it’s not surprising that there are a plethora of clone movements available for the popular Rolex models.
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">For 40mm submariners (i.e. those with reference number 1166XX) There are six options:</p>
 
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''Genuine Rolex Caliber 3135'''</div>
'''Naming Conventions'''
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">For reference here’s the genuine Rolex caliber 3135. Note how there is only one arm (the beat adjustor) on the balance bridge of the genuine movement. This is because the genuine movement has a “free sprung” balance. That means on the genuine movement the speed of the movement is regulated by adjusting the moment of inertia of the balance wheel via tiny weighted screws on the rim of the wheel. On all replica movements, regulation is done via a regulation arm that can be adjusted to lengthen or shorten the effective length of the hairspring. That’s why you see only one arm on the genuine movement, but two arms on the replica movements.</p>
 
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/88enq6l76yj91.png?width=822&format=png&auto=webp&s=86188e0fada537b97842662aea98c7de8da69294 ]</div></div>
Watch movements are often labeled with one or two letters followed by the Rolex movement number that they're a clone of. For example, the VS3235 is a clone of the Rolex 3235 movement. The prefix letters are important, but aren't assigned based on any consistent principals. Sometimes the letters are applied based on which watch factory exclusively uses the movement (e.g. VSF is the exclusive user of VS3235 movements, so that's where the "VS" part of the movement name comes from). But this pattern isn't universal, currently Clean Factory is the exclusive user of the new DD3285 movement, but that movement gets its DD prefix from "Dandong movement factory", the maker of the movement. In theory it would be best to use the movement factory names as the prefixes since movements like the VR3235 get the "VR" from the fact that they were initially used by the watch factory VRF, but are now used by many factories, so the VR3235 would be better named the SH3235 since it is made by the Shanghai movement factory. However, there are in fact two movement factories in Shanghai. Further complicating naming conventions is the fact that sometimes the letters "A" or "SA" are used as prefixes to simply mean "Asian" or "Super Asian".
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Gen Rolex 3135''</p>
 
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''VS3135'''</div>
In conclusion:
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Excellent quality part finishing and engraving. Hairspring mounted clockwise. This is the best super clone movement of the 3135. Note, there is a VS3130 version of this movement which is used on the no-date 40mm VSF subs (ref number 114060). The VS3130 is of equal quality to the VS3135, it is the best option for a no-date 40mm sub.</p>
 
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/892hf1ly6yj91.png?width=878&format=png&auto=webp&s=53ca2479ade3534d4447212ce3e1126d810a1a41 ]</div></div>
* Rep movement naming conventions are a mess.
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''VS3135''</p>
* Don't trust what is written on TD websites.
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''VR3135'''</div>
* Learn to identify movements based on the descriptions and labeled images below.
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Good quality part finishing and engraving. Hairspring mounted clockwise. This is the second best clone of the 3135 movement. Note, there is a no-date version of the VR3135 called the VR3130. The VR3130 is a good quality no-date movement, second only to the VS3130.</p>
 
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/r31fmw867yj91.png?width=881&format=png&auto=webp&s=6eddf7e84c802f78f3c76afb482ac0ed5c8b9380 ]</div></div>
'''40mm Submariner (1166XX and 114060)'''
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''VR3135''</p>
 
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''SH3135'''</div>
For 40mm submariners (i.e. those with reference number 1166XX), there are six options in order of quality:
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Very low quality finishing, hairpsing mounted counter clockwise. Avoid this movement if possible. There is also a no-date version of this movement called the SH3130 (or sometimes the AR3130) which is of similarly poor quality. Avoid both the SH3135 and SH3130 (AR3130).</p>
 
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/ninsgfha7yj91.png?width=885&format=png&auto=webp&s=d66d1fdf29493ef9373ebaa633976ab10747cbbd ]</div></div>
# VS3135 (date version), VS3130 (no-date version)
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''SH3135''</p>
# VR3135 (date version), VR3130 (no-date version)
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''SA3135'''</div>
# SH3135 (date version), SH3130 / AR3130 (no-date version)
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Reasonable quality of part finishing, poor quality engraving. Hairspring mounted counter clockwise. Go with the VR or VS movement if you have the choice or budget. There is a no-date version of this movement called the SA3130, which is of similar quality to the SA3135; as such a better choice for a no-date 40mm submariner is the VS3130 or VR3130.</p>
# SA3135 (date version), SA3130 (non-date version)
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/3sjelmeh7yj91.png?width=876&format=png&auto=webp&s=81d7f295a1e8ede666ddee3b6d5ce0842f73f86e ]</div></div>
# A2824
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''SA3135''</p>
# A2836
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''A2824'''</div>
 
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This isn’t a clone of a Rolex movement, rather it is a clone of an ETA 2824 movement. This movement is reliable and easy to service and get replacement parts for. However, it doesn’t even remotely resemble what you’d find inside a Rolex. If you don’t care about what movement powers your rep, this isn’t a bad option.</p>
'''Genuine Rolex Caliber 3135'''
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/9geo66h28yj91.png?width=875&format=png&auto=webp&s=b216c97c91abde868811f973aadf9750f86e9c68 ]</div></div>
 
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''A2824''</p>
For reference here’s the genuine Rolex caliber 3135. Note how there is only one arm (the beat adjustor -- red arrow) on the balance bridge of the genuine movement. This is because the genuine movement has a “free sprung” balance. That means on the genuine movement the speed of the movement is regulated (i.e. adjusting how fast or slow the movement runs) by adjusting the moment of inertia of the balance wheel via tiny weighted screws on the rim of the wheel (green arrows). On all replica movements, regulation is done via a regulation arm that can be adjusted to lengthen or shorten the effective length of the hairspring. That’s why you see only one arm on the genuine movement, but two arms on the replica movements. Also note that the 3135 movement's rotor does NOT run on ball bearings (blue arrow).
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''A2836'''</div>
 
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Another clone of an ETA movement that is never found inside a real Rolex. This movement is also reliable and easy to service. Some people prefer these movements since they are easy to fix or replace and “nobody can see inside my rep submariner”... the functions at the crown i.e. the direction you have to twist to set the date / time, will not necessarily be the same as on a cloned movement.</p>
[[File:3osSAJ.png]]
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/3177wfr68yj91.png?width=878&format=png&auto=webp&s=d36081403f8f0ac30f2178ba39337275947ed42a ]</div></div>
 
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''A2836''</p>
 
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''41mm Submariners (1266XX) and 41mm Datejust'''</div>
'''VS3135 & VS3130'''
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">It’s worth noting that there are some 36mm Datejusts that use the VR3235 movement, but the majority seem to use an ETA clone. The VR3235 is a good movement, so if you’re looking for a Datejust 36mm try to find one that has a VR3235. Unfortunately, the 3235 movement is too big for the 31mm Datejust case, so all replica 31mm Datejusts use lower end Asian clones of ETA movements. This is just a function of market pressure: there’s not a lot of demand for replica watches in lady sizes.</p>
 
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''Genuine Rolex Caliber 3235'''</div>
This is an excellent movement. The part finishing quality and engraving is good. The hairspring mounted clockwise. This is the best clone of the Rolex 3135 movement. Note, there is a VS3130 version of this movement which is used on the no-date 40mm VSF subs (ref number 114060). The VS3130 is of equal quality to the VS3135, it is the best option for a no-date 40mm sub.
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The genuine Rolex caliber 3235 is a relatively new movement with an astonishing 72 hour power reserve. Just like the genuine 3135 the genuine 3235 doesn’t have a regulation arm on the balance bridge since the movement is regulated by adjusting micro screw weights on the rim of the balance wheel. All the replica 3235 movements have a regulation arm, so you’ll always see two arms on the rep movement balance bridges.</p>
 
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/20b5oyla8yj91.png?width=881&format=png&auto=webp&s=a01000c4e636da2ccf20623378a917d266b399c9 ]</div></div>
For identification against the genuine and other clone 3135 movements, note the position of the beat adjustor arm (red arrow) and the regulator arm (green arrow). Note the type and quality of the balance shock absorber setting (blue arrow). Note that there's a difference between the VS3135 used in VSF watches and the VS3135 used in CF watches: the version used in CF watches doesn't have a serial number engraved into the main plate.
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Gen Rolex 3235''</p>
 
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''VS3235'''</div>
This movement used to be exclusive to VS Factory (VSF), but is now widely available and replacements are available on eBay and AliExpress for around $130 USD.
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This is an incredible movement that is currently only available in VS Factory subs and DJs. The movement has an amazing 70+ hour power reserve and is part compatible with the genuine Rolex movement. This means that it’s possible to swap gen parts into this movement to improve it. A common part swap on this movement is to replace the balance complete, pallet fork, and escape wheel with gen parts. With those parts swapped, the movement is virtually indistinguishable from the genuine caliber. Note: The easy way to identify this movement is to look at the position of the two arms coming off the balance bridge: on the VS movement they face outwards. Note: there is currently no non-date version of the VS3235, that is a "VS3230" movement doesn't exist (as of August 2022). The best option for a no-date 41mm submariner is the VR3230 movement (see below).</p>
 
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/qr3775nv8yj91.png?width=867&format=png&auto=webp&s=227b9fca6a49251e841776d9f727af13e090d96a ]</div></div>
[[File:3os08P.png]]
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''VS3235''</p>
 
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''VR3235'''</div>
'''VR3135 & VR3130'''
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This is a very common movement that is used in Subs and DJs from many different factories. This movement is technically not a clone but more of a hybrid between a 3135 and 3235 movement. This movement is reliable, although it doesn’t have the same power reserve of the VS3235, at only around 40 hours. While spare parts for this movement can be hard to find, a replacement movement is only around 100 USD on AliExpress, so it’s often more economical to replace the movement with a new one rather than service an old one. This movement is easy to identify because it has a “fake” beat adjuster arm pointing outwards from the balance bridge, but the two functional arms (beat and rate) are hidden underneath the balance bridge and face inwards. Also of note, the end-shake adjustment screw on the balance bridge isn’t functional, so adjusting the end-shake of the balance needs to be done with foil shims. Note: there is a no-date version of this movement called the VR3230 which is used on Clean Factory (CF) no-date 41mm submariners (as of August 2022). The VR3230 is the best option for a clone movement in a no-date 41mm submariner.</p>
 
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/7cbwg0ry8yj91.png?width=873&format=png&auto=webp&s=f91eca241e6cd7c7478db39e36bdf05f61058f52 ]</div></div>
This is another good option for 40mm submariners. The part finishing and engraving is good. This is the second best clone of the 3135 movement. Note, there is a no-date version of the VR3135 called the VR3130. The VR3130 is a good quality no-date movement, second only to the VS3130. It's worth knowing that unlike the VS3135 (and gen) movement, the VR3135 doesn't have a shock setting for the escape wheel; this will reduce the shock resistance of the movement and is one of the reasons that the VS3135 is considered a better choice over the vr3135.
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''VR3235''</p>
 
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''SA3235'''</div>
For identification of the VR3135 movement there is an easy way to tell it apart from the VS3135, on the VR3135 the hairspring is mounted counter-clockwise (purple arrow). The beat adjustor (red arrow) also has a black dot on it. But the regulator arm (green arrow) and the shock setting (blue arrow) look very similar to the vs3135.
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This movement appears in some DJ41s and DJ36s. This is not a great movement, and should be avoided. The movement is decorated with poor quality plates. In the images it’s possible to see paint flaking off of the “reversing wheels” of the automatic model. This movement can easily be identified by the decoration at the center of the rotor that is trying to make it look like the rotor runs on ball bearings like the VS and VR (and gen) movements above. Furthermore, the shock setting spring on the balance bridge is a three sided closed spring vs. the paraflex springs that are present on the gen, VS and VR (although on the VR the paraflex spring is part of a decoration plate, and the real shock setting can be found underneath). This is a movement to avoid.</p>
 
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/ncqwbux39yj91.png?width=873&format=png&auto=webp&s=ea3faf80dcf813df91abfaee277402bc8f48ab6e ]</div></div>
[[File:3IuXo3.png]]
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''SA3235''</p>
 
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/aotptdj79yj91.png?width=881&format=png&auto=webp&s=abb2dfaf3076b36b644e5e0409717ec5d0fa7d4f ]</div></div>
Please note that there is a second version of the vr3135 which has a fake beat adjustor (blue arrow), and has the real beat adjustor (red arrow) and regulator arm (green arrow) pointing inwards. This is a style that is also seen in the VR3235 movement.
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''SA3235'' (Low quality paint flakes)</p>
 
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''A2824'''</div>
[[File:3IudPs.png]]
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This is not a clone of a Rolex movement, but rather an asian clone of an ETA movement. This movement was discussed above in the 40mm submariner section. But here again, the movement is reliable and easy to service, but not functionally the same as the genuine movement in terms of the functions of the crown for setting / winding. With the ubiquity and low cost of the VR3235, this movement is found on very few high end 41mm submainers.</p>
 
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''GMT Movements'''</div>
This movement is used in 40mm submariners from many replica watch factories. It is also available for purchase on eBay and AliExpress as a replacement for a broken movement for around $80 USD.
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">For GMT movements, there are movements that have the correct hand stack (CHS) and incorrect hand stack (ICHS) on modern (6-digit) GMT models (1167XX, and 1267XX). Correct hand stack means that the hour hand is on the bottom, the GMT hand is next, then the minute hand, and the seconds hand is on top. Incorrect Hand Stack means that the GMT hand is on the bottom, the hour hand is on top of the GMT hand, then the minute hand, and the seconds hand on top.</p>
 
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''VR3186 and VR3285 (Correct Hand Stack)'''</div>
'''SH3135 & SH3130 (AR3130)'''
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This is the movement you want. The VR3186 is reliable and has an hour hand jumping mechanism that isn’t weak. The VR3186 is sometimes engraved with the number 3285, but it’s the same movement. Below are two pictures showing the same movement with different engraving. Note that this movement is easily identifiable by the position of the arms on the balance bridge: both the beat adjuster and regulator arm point inwards and there’s a fake beat adjuster arm facing outwards.</p>
 
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The VR3185 with 3285 engraving has shown up recently (Summer 2022) on C+ Factory model GMTs. There are rumors that there is a new true 3285 clone movement in the works, and the C+ Factory will be the first to get access to it. But as of August 2022, C+ Factory is using the VR3186 movement and simply engraving 3285 onto it.</p>
This movement has very low quality finishing. The hairpspring is mounted counter clockwise. Avoid this movement if possible. There is also a no-date version of this movement called the SH3130 (or sometimes the AR3130) which is of similarly poor quality. Avoid both the SH3135 and SH3130 (AR3130).
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/dr2bemlc9yj91.png?width=874&format=png&auto=webp&s=52533c6f789cacaf384583036e8e0ff3247bb959 ]</div></div>
 
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''VR3186''</p>
For identification purposes, not the style of the beat adjustor arm with the screw on the side (red arrow), the regulator arm (green arrow), and the style steel (not brass) cup for the shock setting (blue arrow).
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/yatz306g9yj91.png?width=886&format=png&auto=webp&s=1712276e197ea1c1bf7669cfae6c726e401d6596 ]</div></div>
 
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''VR3285'' (actually a VR3186 with "3235" engraved on it)</p>
[[File:3osJzS.png]]
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''SH3186 (Correct Hand Stack)'''</div>
 
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This is a time-bomb movement that should be avoided. The hour hand jumping mechanism is weak on this movement and is prone to breaking. Furthermore, the hour hand jumping mechanism isn’t gen-spec, so it can’t be repaired with gen parts. This movement can be identified by inspecting the balance bridge: the two regulation arms point outwards (unlike the VR3186) and the shock setting has a steel cup (rather than a brass cup like the SA3186).</p>
'''SA3135 & SA3130'''
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/6xlzm6mn9yj91.png?width=872&format=png&auto=webp&s=a25f21bc9e5f5979bd1a1ac7a987c4aaecc2f687 ]</div></div>
 
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''SH3186''</p>
This movement has reasonable quality of part finishing, but poor quality engraving. The hairspring mounted clockwise. Go with the VR or VS movement if you have the choice or budget. There is a no-date version of this movement called the SA3130, which is of similar quality to the SA3135; as such a better choice for a no-date 40mm submariner is the VS3130 or VR3130.
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''SA3186''' (Correct Hand Stack)</div>
 
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This is another time-bomb movement. Like the SH3186 this movement has a weak hour hand jumping mechanism and should be avoided. This movement can be identified again by the position of the regulation arm on the balance bridge and the fact that unlike the SH3186, it has a brass cup for the balance bridge shock setting.</p>
For identification purposes note the round head on the beat adjustor arm (red arrow), the style of the regulator arm (green arrow), and the style and metal (steel) of the shock setting (blue arrow).
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/22oa41as9yj91.png?width=878&format=png&auto=webp&s=2ffb6dd3d86c095860f8f21b7409033097f48702 ]</div></div>
 
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''SA3186''</p>
[[File:3I7HOW.jpg]]
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''A3186''' (Incorrect Hand Stack)</div>
 
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This isn’t a clone of a rolex movement, but rather a clone of an ETA movement that is decorated to look like a rolex movement. ETA GMT movements are reliable and inexpensive to service and repair, however, the functionality does not match the Rolex GMT calibers. A better option is the VR3186.</p>
'''A2824'''
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/7ut5g1y1ayj91.png?width=870&format=png&auto=webp&s=4d653b8b3b62284a1a22dbb6007db4ae037ccc94 ]</div></div>
 
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''A3186''</p>
This isn’t a clone of a Rolex movement, rather it is an Asian clone of an ETA 2824 movement. There are quite a few variations on this movement since it has been around for decades and every movement factory in China has a clone version of it. This movement is reliable and easy to service and get replacement parts for. However, it doesn’t even remotely resemble what you’d find inside a Rolex. If you don’t care about what movement powers your rep, this isn’t a bad option. Complete Clone 2824 movements can be purchased on eBay and AliExpress for $20 to $50 USD. A genuine Swiss ETA 2824 will cost over $200 USD and will be a simple drop-in replacement for an Asian 2824.
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''A2836''' (Incorrect Hand Stack)</div>
 
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">It’s unclear why this movement is labeled as an Asian clone of the ETA 2836, since the ETA 2836 is not a GMT movement. It’s more likely that this is a clone of the ETA 2893 movement. Nonetheless, this movement is not going to function like a genuine Rolex GMT movement, and has the wrong hand stack on the dial. A far better option is to go with the VR3186.</p>
For identification purposes, note the position of the beat adjustor (red arrow), the regulator arm (dark green arrow), the fine tuning rate adjustor (light green arrow), the shock absorber (blue arrow, NB: there are many different styles of shock absorbers on different clones of the eta 2824, the one in the picture is a lower end one), and finally note that the rotor runs on ball bearings (orange arrow).
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/vx82htv4ayj91.png?width=882&format=png&auto=webp&s=aea8209f8a16c43fc8b56b2ce0c612478096fd93 ]</div></div>
 
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''A2836''</p>
[[File:3oscwL.png]]a
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''Daytona Movements'''</div>
 
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''4130'''</div>
'''A2836'''
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This movement is also known as the Noob4130 / N4130 / Dandong 4130. They are all the same. This movement is one of the highest quality replica movements available. For a long time it was exclusively available to Noob Factory. When Noob was raided and shut down in 2021, this movement disappeared from the rep scene. However, in early 2022 Clean Factory (CF), and then Better Factory (BTF), and Q Factory (QF) started making Daytonas with this movement. Daytonas with this movement are more expensive than Daytonas with a 7750 movement. However, if you care about the reliability and longevity of your rep, go for the 4130. It’s worth the extra cost.</p>
 
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The 4130 movement is also compatible with genuine Rolex parts. It’s common to replace the balance-complete, and the chronograph seconds wheel to build a movement that is nearly indistinguishable from the genuine Rolex caliber 4130.</p>
This is another clone of an ETA movement that is never found inside a real Rolex. This movement is also reliable and easy to service. Some people prefer these movements since they are easy to fix or replace and “nobody can see inside my rep submariner”... the functions at the crown i.e. the direction you have to twist to set the date / time, will not necessarily be the same as on a cloned movement. Also this is a strange choice for a movement in a submariner since it has the functionality for both a day and date function, so it is more often seen in reps of the Rolex DayDate.
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The 4130 looks completely different from the 7750, learn to tell the two apart so that you can validate any claims made by a seller.</p>
 
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/pyru08ulayj91.png?width=865&format=png&auto=webp&s=35309caf5c14b86d128f3e4eb42f60224cb8456b ]</div></div>
For identification purposes, this movement looks the same as the 2824 from the balance side, so there really aren't any easy ways to differentiate the two without looking at the keyless works or dial side of the movement. The pic below is here more for reference and the coloured arrows point to the same features noted in the description of the 2824 above.
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Noob / Dandong 4130''</p>
 
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''7750'''</div>
[[File:3ouY3E.png]]a
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This is an Asian clone of an ETA 7750 movement. The reason that this movement isn’t great for the Daytona is because it is thicker than the 4130 movement, so the movement is often slimmed down (and thus made less reliable) to fit inside a 12.4mm thick Daytona case. Furthermore, the Daytona has its small seconds at 6 o’clock, but this is not the default position for the small seconds complication on the 7750 movement; various additional wheels need to be added to the top of the 7750 movement to get everything into the correct position. This complication adds stress to the movement and reduces reliability. With the clone 4130 widely available, it's a good idea to avoid Daytonas with the 7750 movement.</p>
 
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/r3l2ocaoayj91.png?width=877&format=png&auto=webp&s=4d1447ad060e3a5b834479b0b019cbe899926459 ]</div></div>
'''41mm Submariners (1266XX) and 36mm and 41mm Datejust'''
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Asian 7750''</p>
 
<p>[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/wxu9vm/beginners_guide_to_the_clone_movements_found_in/ Source]</p></div></div>
There are several clones of the Rolex 3235 movement which appear in 41mm Subs, and 36mm & 41mm Datejusts. Please note: There are two version of the genuine Rolex 3235 movement which have slightly different sized date wheels. This is because the date window on the dial of the 41mm DJ is further out than the date window on the 41mm Submariner. If you are buying a replacement 3235 movement, be sure you get the correct version for your watch.
 
It’s worth noting that there are some 36mm Datejusts that use the VR3235 movement (e.g. the ones from Clean Factory), and the ones from VS Factory (VSF) use the excellent VS3235 movement. However, the majority of non CF or VSF 36mm DJs use an ETA clone. Unfortunately, the 3235 movement is too big for the 31mm Datejust case, so all replica 31mm Datejusts use lower end Asian clones of ETA movements. This is just a function of market pressure: there’s not a lot of demand for replica watches in lady sizes.
 
'''Genuine Rolex Caliber 3235'''
 
The genuine Rolex caliber 3235 is a relatively new movement with an astonishing 72 hour power reserve. Just like the genuine 3135 the genuine 3235 doesn’t have a regulation arm on the balance bridge (there is only a beat adjustor arm -- red arrow) since the movement is regulated by adjusting micro screw weights on the rim of the balance wheel (green arrows). All the replica 3235 movements have a regulation arm, so you’ll always see two arms on the rep movement balance bridges. Also note that the automatic rotor runs on ball bearings (blue arrow). Furthermore, the escape wheel on the gen movement is skeletonized (orange arrow), whereas it is solid on all the replicas of this movement.
 
[[File:3ou9cs.png]]
 
'''VS3235'''
 
This is an incredible movement that is currently only available in VS Factory (VSF) subs and DJs. The movement has an amazing 70+ hour power reserve and is part compatible with the genuine Rolex movement. This means that it’s possible to swap gen parts into this movement to improve it. A common part swap on this movement is to replace the balance complete, pallet fork, and escape wheel with gen parts. With those parts swapped, the movement is virtually indistinguishable from the genuine caliber.
 
For identifications of this movement, look at the position of the two arms coming off the balance bridge (beat adjustor -- red arrow, and regulator arm -- green arrow): on the VS movement they face outwards. Also note the paraflex shock setting spring (blue arrow). The paraflex shock setting on the VS3235 movement is the actual functional shock setting, unlike on the VR3235 where the paraflex shock setting is simply a decoration plate.
 
Note: there is currently no non-date version of the VS3235, that is a "VS3230" movement doesn't exist (as of March 2023). The best option for a no-date 41mm submariner is the VR3230 movement (see below).
 
Also note that is is not possible to buy this movement on eBay or AliExpress. However, if you have a VSF sub or dj with a broken movement, there are many rep-friendly watch smiths who will be happy to swap in a VR3235 movement for you and take the broken VS3235 off your hands for spare parts.
 
[[File:3ou6mY.png]]
 
'''VR3235'''
 
This is a very common movement that is used in Subs and DJs from many different factories. This movement is technically not a clone but more of a hybrid between a 3135 and 3235 movement. This movement is reliable, although it doesn’t have the same power reserve of the VS3235, at only around 40 hours. While spare parts for this movement can be hard to find, a replacement movement is only around $100 USD on AliExpress, so it’s often more economical to replace the movement with a new one rather than service an old one.
 
This movement is easy to identify because it has a “fake” beat adjuster arm pointing outwards from the balance bridge (blue arrow), but the two functional arms (beat adjustor -- red arrow, and regulator arm -- green arrow) are hidden underneath the balance bridge and face inwards. Also of note, the end-shake adjustment screw on the balance bridge (purple arrow) isn’t functional, so adjusting the end-shake of the balance needs to be done with foil shims. The end shake adjustment screw simply secures a decoration plate that houses the fake paraflex shock setting (orange arrow), there is a real shock setting under this decoration plate.
 
Note: there is a no-date version of this movement called the VR3230 which is used on Clean Factory (CF) no-date 41mm submariners (as of August 2022). The VR3230 is the best option for a clone movement in a no-date 41mm submariner.
 
[[File:3ourSk.png]]a
 
'''SA3235'''
 
This movement appears in some DJ41s and DJ36s. This is not a great movement, and should be avoided. The movement is decorated with poor quality plates. In the images it’s possible to see paint flaking off of the “reversing wheels” of the automatic model.
 
This movement can easily be identified by the decoration at the center of the rotor that is trying to make it look like the rotor runs on ball bearings like the gen 3235 (red arrow). Furthermore, the shock setting spring (blue arrow) on the balance bridge is a three sided closed spring vs. the paraflex springs that are present on the gen, VS and VR (although on the VR the paraflex spring is part of a decoration plate, and the real shock setting can be found underneath). This is a movement to avoid.
 
[[File:3ouQrJ.png]]a
 
'''GMT Movements'''
 
For GMT movements, there are movements that have the correct hand stack (CHS) and incorrect hand stack (ICHS) on modern (6-digit) GMT models (1167XX, and 1267XX). Correct hand stack means that the hour hand is on the bottom, the GMT hand is next, then the minute hand, and the seconds hand is on top. Incorrect Hand Stack means that the GMT hand is on the bottom, the hour hand is on top of the GMT hand, then the minute hand, and the seconds hand on top.
 
Details on each movement are provided below, but this graphic (by @KJ2020) is a shortcut to helping ID each of the 318X series movements movements. Note: There are two "true" 3285 clone movements which are (as of summer 2023) starting to see widespread adoption by rep factories. With these two new 3285 movements (see bottom of the GMT movement section) hopefully the days of trying to figure out exactly which GMT movement is the watch you're buying (to avoid the time-bomb movements) will be a thing of the past.
 
Hat tip to RWI's Gandalf the Grey of GMT movements: @KJ2020 who helped me correctly identify each of the myriad clone GMT movements -- Thank you for helping me get this right.
 
[[File:3Iuk0Y.jpg]]a
 
'''VR3186 (Correct Hand Stack)'''
 
This is a good movement. The VR3186 is reliable and has an hour hand jumping mechanism is strong. The VR3186 is sometimes engraved with the number 3285 (black arrow), but it’s the same movement. Below are two pictures showing the same movement with different engraving. Note that this movement is easily identifiable by the position of the arms on the balance bridge: both the beat adjuster (red arrow) and regulator arm (green arrow) point inwards and there’s a fake beat adjuster arm (blue arrow) facing outwards. Also note that a true 3285 clone movement (see below) has a rotor that runs on ball bearings not a jewel pivot (purple arrow) and has a paraflex shock setting (orange arrow) not a kif shock setting.
 
[[File:3oukmR.png]]a
 
Note that there are VR3186 movements which have been engraved with the numbers "3285" (black arrow) but they are VR3186 in every other way.
 
[[File:3ouut1.png]]a
 
Also note that there is an older version of the VR3186 (sometimes called the VR3185 or VR3186 v1) which has the beat adjustor arm and regulator arm facing outwards. This version of the movement can be identified by inspecting the balance bridge: the beat adjustor which has the hairspring screw pointing out the end of the arm (red arrow) and regulator arm (green arrow) point outwards (unlike the newer VR3186). Also, the shock setting has a brass cup (blue arrow).
 
[[File:3ouN1I.png]]a
 
 
'''SH3186 (Correct Hand Stack)'''
 
This is a time-bomb movement that should be avoided. The hour hand jumping mechanism is weak on this movement and is prone to breaking. Furthermore, the hour hand jumping mechanism isn’t gen-spec, so it can’t be repaired with gen parts. This movement can be identified again by the position of the beat adjustor arm (red arrow, note the position of the hairspring screw on the side of the beat adjustor arm unlike on the old version of the VR3186 where this screw is on the end of the arm), and the regulator arm (green arrow) on the balance bridge. Also, unlike the old version of the VR3186, the SH3186 has a steel cup for the balance bridge shock setting (blue arrow).
 
[[File:3ouvNj.png]]a
 
'''SA3186 (Correct Hand Stack)'''
 
This is another time-bomb movement. Like the SH3186 this movement has a weak hour hand jumping mechanism and should be avoided. This movement is easy to identify because unlike all the other CHS GMT movement it has its hairspring mounted clockwise -- this means that the beat adjustor (red arrow), and regulator (green arrow) are reversed compared to the VR3186 and the SH3186. Also, the shock setting of this movement has a steel cup (blue arrow).
 
[[File:3oEIE1.jpg]]a
 
'''SA3285 (Correct Hand Stack)'''
 
In 2020, GMF released a movement called the SA3285 which was basically a slightly different version of the SA3186. This movement can be identified by the beat adjustor arm (red arrow), regulator arm (green arrow), and shock setting (orange arrow) that are the same as the SA3186. However, the SA3285 had holes drilled around the rotor mounting (blew arrow) to make it look like the rotor was running on ball bearings like a true 3285 movement (see below). This movement is of similar inferior quality as the SA3186, so it should be avoided.
 
[[File:3qzirj.jpg]]a
 
'''A3186 (Incorrect Hand Stack)'''
 
This isn’t a clone of a rolex movement, but rather a clone of an ETA movement that is decorated to look like a rolex movement. ETA GMT movements are reliable and inexpensive to service and repair, however, the functionality does not match the Rolex GMT calibers. A better option is the VR3186. The movement is easy to identify by the shock setting (red arrow), the ETA style winding works (green arrow), and the ETA style reversing wheels (blue arrow).
 
[[File:3ouSPb.png]]a
 
'''A2836 (Incorrect Hand Stack)'''
 
It’s unclear why this movement is labeled as an Asian clone of the ETA 2836, since the ETA 2836 is not a GMT movement. It’s more likely that this is a clone of the ETA 2893 movement. Nonetheless, this movement is not going to function like a genuine Rolex GMT movement, and has the wrong hand stack on the dial. A far better option is to go with the VR3186. This movement is easy to identify from the ETA style balance cock assembly (red arrow).
 
[[File:3ouVNt.png]]a
 
'''SH3285 aka VR3285 (Correct Hand Stack)'''
 
This is a new movement (as of March 2023) which has started to appear in C+ Factory GMTs and Explorer IIs. There is little long term reliability information about this movement, although @CTime posted an excellent photo comparison of the SH3285 with the DD3285 and the Gen 3285. This movement appears to be based on the VR3235 movement (discussed above), as such it is not a true clone but rather a hybrid that has both 31XX style parts and 32XX style parts.
 
There have been some reliability issues reported with the SH3285 movement. Furthermore, the SH3285 appears to have subtly different sized / position parts compared to both the VR3235 movement (with which it shares its train wheel and escapement design), and the gen/DD3285.
 
The SH3285 can be easily identified by the position of the beat adjustor (red arrow) and regulator arm (green arrow) which face inwards and the fake beat adjustor arm (blue arrow) which faces outwards. Additionally, the end-shake adjustor screw (purple arrow) is not functional, but simply secures a decoration plate which contains a fake paraflex shock setting (orange arrow). Also, unlike the 3186 movement, the SH3285 movement's rotor runs on ball bearings (pink arrow).
 
[[File:3oEN1P.jpg]]
 
'''DD3285 aka CF3285 (Correct Hand Stack)'''
 
This is a new movement from Dandong movement factory (one of the best rep movement factories in China). This movement will apparently be exclusive to Clean Factory (CF). Based on the photo comparison posted above by @CTime, the DD3285 appears to be based on the excellent VS3235 movement, so it is likely that it will have the long 70 hour power reserve.
 
This movement can be easily distinguished from the SH3285 above by the position of the beat adjustor arm (red arrow), and regulator arm (green arrow) which both point outwards and are very similar to the VS3235 movement from which the DD3285 is based. Also note the functional paraflex shock setting (purple arrow) and that the rotor runs on ball bearings (blue arrow) unlike clones of the 3186 movement.
 
[[File:3oEVNv.png]]
 
'''DayDate Movements'''
 
Prior to September 2023, the only movement available for DayDate movements was the asian clone of the ETA 2836 movement (see above for images of the clone ETA 2824 movement since the 2836 looks the same from the balance side). The ETA clone is reliable and easy to service, however it doesn't operate in the same way as the gen 3255 movement from the crown. As such, for those looking for a closer to gen rep, there has always been a desire for a clone 3255 movement. This wish appears to have been granted in the form of a 3255 clone movement that looks like it is based on the reliable (albeit not a true clone) VR3235 movement from Shanghai movement factory.
 
'''VR3255'''
 
This movement is new as of September 2023 and has only (so far) appeared in DayDates from EWF. The movement looks like it comes from Shanghai movement factory and appears very similar to the SH3285 (GMT) movement and the VR3235 movement. All of these movements share the same inward facing beat adjustor arm (green arrow) and regulator arm (red arrow), with a fake hairspring stud pointing outwards (blue arrow). This movement also appears to have the same non-functional balance end-shake adjustor (magenta arrow) which doesn't adjust end-shake, but rather simply secures the decoration plate on top of the balance bridge. The movement is identifiable by the 3255 engraving (black arrow). As of this update, there is no information about the reliability of this movement, but we should expect that like most new movements (e.g. the SH3285) it will take a few iterations to work out the bugs.
 
[[File:H1mUCJ.png]]
 
'''Daytona Movements'''
 
There are two clone 4130 movements: the original Dandong 4130 movement used by Noob (until Noob was shut down in a raid in 2021), and now used by CF, BTF, QF, and "new Noob". But in June 2023 Shanghai Movement factory released a version of the 4130 movement (called the SH4130). These two movements (and the ETA 7750 which is used in lower end Daytona clones) are discussed below.
 
'''Dandong 4130 (aka DD4130 or "Noob 4130")'''
 
This movement is also known as the Noob4130 / N4130 / Dandong 4130. They are all the same. This movement is one of the highest quality replica movements available. For a long time it was exclusively available to Noob Factory. When Noob was raided and shut down in 2021, this movement disappeared from the rep scene. However, in early 2022 Clean Factory (CF), and then Better Factory (BTF), and Q Factory (QF) started making Daytonas with this movement. Daytonas with this movement are more expensive than Daytonas with a 7750 movement. However, if you care about the reliability and longevity of your rep, go for the DD4130. It’s worth the extra cost.
 
The DD4130 movement is also compatible with genuine Rolex parts. It’s common to replace the balance-complete, and the chronograph seconds wheel to build a movement that is nearly indistinguishable from the genuine Rolex caliber 4130. For anyone interested in a part by part macro photo comparison between the gen and Dandong 4130 movement, @CTime did the heavy lifting for you.
 
The DD4130 looks completely different from the 7750, learn to tell the two apart so that you can validate any claims made by a seller. Easy parts to look for when identifying a DD4130 vs. a 7750 are that the DD4130 has three screws securing the rotor (green arrow), a column wheel (red arrow), and a balance bridge (blue arrow) rather than a balance cock.
 
[[File:3ovzD3.png]]a
 
'''Shanghai 4130'''
 
In June 2023 Shanghai Movement factory released a 4130 clone movement. As of June 2023 we have only seen this movement in Daytona reps from APSF (a factory known for their high end AP reps). There is no reliability information available as of this update (I will update this post when information becomes available). However, for now, there is an easy way to differentiate the SH4130 from the DD4130: The position and style of the beat and regulator arms on the balance bridge. Unlike the DD4130 where the beat and regulator arms point outwards, on the SH4130 the beat adjustor (red arrow) and regulator (green arrow) point inwards. Furthermore, on the SH4130 there is a fake hairspring stud (blue arrow). This style of balance bridge is common on other Shanghai clone movements such as the VR3135, VR3186, and SH/VR3285.
 
[[File:Hzv4Tj.jpg]]a
 
'''7750'''
 
This is an Asian clone of an ETA 7750 movement. The reason that this movement isn’t great for the Daytona is because it is thicker than the 4130 movement, so the movement is often slimmed down (and thus made less reliable) to fit inside a 12.4mm thick Daytona case. Furthermore, the Daytona has its small seconds at 6 o’clock, but this is not the default position for the small seconds complication on the 7750 movement; various additional wheels need to be added to the top of the 7750 movement to get everything into the correct position. This complication adds stress to the movement and reduces reliability. With the clone 4130 widely available, it's a good idea to avoid Daytonas with the 7750 movement.
 
The 7750 can be identified by the single screw securing the rotor (red arrow), and the balance cock (green arrow) vs. the balance bridge see on the 4130.
 
[[File:3ovKbD.png]]a
 
[https://forum.replica-watch.info/threads/comprehensive-guide-to-clone-movements-found-in-rolex-reps.10936248/ Source]
</div></div>


== Guide to Movements in Audemars Piguet, Patek Philippe & Richard Mille ==
== Guide to Movements in Audemars Piguet, Patek Philippe & Richard Mille ==
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This guide will be an introduction to the clone movements found in Audemars Piguet (AP), Patek Philippe (PP), and Richard Mille (RM) replicas. Just like with the clone Rolex movements, the clone movements for AP, PP, and RM are of varying quality in terms of how well they replicate the genuine movement in form & function, but also quality. However, unlike Rolex clone movements where there can be multiple different clones of a single movement (e.g. the plethora of Rolex caliber 3135 and 3235 clones), with AP, PP, and RM, there's usually just one clone movement, so I'll try to compare and contrast the clone against the alternative which is often a decorated Japanese Miyota 9015 movement.</p><div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Audemars Piguet'''</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The most popular AP replica (by far) is the Royal Oak (RO). There are two replica AP movements, one for the RO 15400: the clone 3120 movement by Z Factory (ZF). And one for the RO 15500: the clone 4302 movement by APS Factory (APSF). The alternative to these cloned movements is the Japanese Miyota 9015 movement.</p><div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''AP Royal Oak 15400'''</div><div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''3120'''</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The clone 3120 movement is found in both the Z Factory (ZF) and APS Factory (APSF) AP RO 15400 replicas watches at present (summer 2022). However, both factories used a decorated Miyota movement several years ago before the clone movement became available. So be careful when buying an AP 15400, just because it’s from ZF or APSF doesn’t necessarily mean that it has a clone movement.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The clone movement can be distinguished from the Miyota by the position of the balance wheel at 8 o’clock vs. 5 o’clock on the Miyota. Furthermore, the Miyota has a non-function shock setting without a spring on the balance bridge, whereas the clone has a functional shock setting on the balance bridge.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Unfortunately, both the clone movement and the Miyota 9015 have a slow date change at midnight, whereas the genuine AP 3120 movement has an instant date change at midnight.</p><div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/daro5a7ox3k91.png?width=865&format=png&auto=webp&s=ed34f5f744c121b87118379f563c92a1b898ad9f ]</div></div><p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Clone AP 3120''</p><div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''Miyota 9015'''</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The Miyota 9015 is a reliable workhorse movement, and older / lower end AP 15400 replicas used a decorated version of this movement. However, the clone 3120 movement is reliable and is a more authentic option over the Miyota if you’re looking for a genuine appearance through the transparent caseback.</p><div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/jedh2qfsx3k91.png?width=874&format=png&auto=webp&s=f4fcdeeca7605c02bb19b8c11924ceaa7c58fefa ]</div></div><p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Miyota 9015 decorated to look like an AP 3120''</p><div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''AP RO 15500'''</div><div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''4302'''</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The clone 4302 movement is new (as of summer 2022), but appears to be an excellent movement. [https://forum.replica-watch.info/threads/a-short-review-of-the-apsf-15500-a4302-clone-caliber.10917474/ The initial review by a watchsmith at RWI] said that the movement is on par with the Noob Daytona 4130 movement (the 4130 Daytona movement is widely considered to be the best clone movement ever made, so this is VERY high praise). Like the genuine AP 4302 movement, the clone features an instant date change at midnight. The quality of this movement makes it the no-brainer choice for an AP 15500.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This movement is used in both the ZF and APSF version of the AP 15500, however, the ZF version has a spelling error in the engraving / printing on the back side of the movement (the word JEWELS is spelled JEWEES on the ZF version as of August 2022). This may be something that gets corrected soon, however, it’s worth checking during QC to ensure this error is not present.</p><div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/v4x2gzuwx3k91.png?width=871&format=png&auto=webp&s=126fb699ad6afa4be1712c553419d7b46d508312 ]</div></div><p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Clone AP 4302''</p><div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''Miyota 9015'''</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The Miyota is no longer a good choice for the AP 15500 due to the fact that it has a slow date change, and while it is reliable, it is now competing with an extremely high quality replica movement.</p><div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/d2ba9y01y3k91.png?width=872&format=png&auto=webp&s=2ab4d832ce0fab173c72ce4aba4aa7e50a3bc6f6 ]</div></div><p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Miyota 9015 decorated to look like an AP 4302''</p><div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Patek Philippe'''</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">There are only two clone movements available for Patek reps, the caliber 324 for the Nautilus 5711 and Aquanaut, and the 240 for the Nautilus 5712. All other Patek reps use a Miyota or another Asian movement.</p><div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''Nautilus 5711 and Aquanaut 5167'''</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Both the 5711 Nautilus and the 5167 Aquanaut share the same Patek Philippe caliber 324 movement. This movement has been cloned and is available in reps from 3K Factory (3KF). However, older Aquanauts use the Miyota. For the 5711 Nautilus there is a version of the Miyota that has been well decorated and rotated so that the balance wheel appears to be in the correct location compared to the gen 324 movement. However, all of these movements have a slow date change at midnight, whereas the genuine movement has an instant midnight date change.</p><div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''324'''</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The Clone 324 movement can be found in 3K Factory reps of the Nautilus and Aquanaut. This is a good movement, but doesn’t have a very large power reserve and requires a large amount of winding or rotor spinning (possibly due to non gen-spec gearing in the automatic module). The movement can be identified and differentiated against the rotated Miyota by the functional main train wheels visible above the balance wheel which are not present in the rotated Miyota.</p><div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/7uxoldr7y3k91.png?width=875&format=png&auto=webp&s=217337578b63a08f4d27f23bf6c47a4806f68872 ]</div></div><p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''3KF Clone 324 movement in an Aquanaut''</p><div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/8a1ukcuay3k91.png?width=874&format=png&auto=webp&s=ae5ea562a2d8b6aae657f118470711dc69def79e ]</div></div><p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''3KF Clone 324 in a 5711 Nautilus''</p><div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''Miyota 9015'''</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The Miyota 9015 is a common movement that has been discussed above, it is often found in lower end or older Patek reps. It is reliable, easy & cheap to service. It doesn’t have an instant date change at midnight. And it suffers from a loud rotor. This movement is easy to distinguish from the clone 324 because the balance bridge (cock) is anchored on the crown side which is reversed in the clone and gen movement. There are also noticeable differences in the screw and ball bearing assembly of the rotor at the center of the movement. This isn’t a bad movement if you don’t really care about an authentic look, However, given the open caseback on Patek watches, the clone or rotated Miyota are better options.</p><div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/veubucfey3k91.png?width=875&format=png&auto=webp&s=3d27baab4eb6f1ab1a77bf6f1b269814d0f3f9f6 ]</div></div><p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Miyota 9015 decorated to look like a PP 324''</p><div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''Rotated Miyota'''</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">PP Factory (PPF) has developed a rotated and well decorated Miyota variant that looks more similar to the gen movement than an undecorated Miyota, but is still noticeably a worse imitation than the 3KF clone 324 movement discussed above. This movement is easy to differentiate from the clone 324 movement due to the lack of main train wheels above the balance wheel. Also, the fake “jewels” where the main train wheels should be, are red and the rest of the functional jewels in the movement are purple. The rotated Miyota also doesn’t have its rotor running on ball bearings, whereas the clone and gen both do. The 3KF clone movement is a better option if you want a more gen-like rep.</p><div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/3ic84xcjy3k91.png?width=877&format=png&auto=webp&s=b1e3976d44bcb917ee5e990cdad58d34b4800539 ]</div></div><p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Rotated Miyota 9015 decorated to look like a PP 324''</p><div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''Nautilus 5712'''</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The 5712 is a Nautilus with a lot of complications. The gen model features a power reserve indicator, small seconds, date, and moon phase indicator. Furthermore, the genuine Patek 240 caliber features a micro-rotor to keep the movement incredibly thin. With all of this complication it is truly impressive that PP Factory (PPF) has managed to build a fully functional clone movement which has only minor cosmetic differences from the genuine Patek 240 caliber. The clone movement doesn’t appear to be available exclusively from PPF, as it has appeared in 5712 reps from GR Factory (GRF) as of summer 2022.</p><div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''240'''</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The clone 240 movement is an impressive feat of engineering. This is a thin movement with many complications. This movement is still very new (as of summer 2022), and as such, there is not yet a consensus as to its reliability, although an [https://forum.replica-watch.info/threads/new-ppf-5712-with-pp240-super-clone.10761517/post-10923200 initial review by a watchsmith on RWI] confirmed that the build quality was good, and there were no surprises.</p><div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/dlrcd0bqy3k91.png?width=872&format=png&auto=webp&s=1078a87137d6eb9d6092a5d105566cbd75e7138f ]</div></div><p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Clone PP 240 movement''</p><div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''A23J Movement'''</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">There is an old version of the 5712 that comes with a decorated generic Asian 23 Jewel movement. This version is much thicker than the gen which makes rep 5712s with this movement 10.5mm thick vs. 8.4mm thick for reps using the clone. Also, this movement doesn't have a functional power reserve indicator. With the availability of the clone 240 movement, this is not a recommended option.</p><div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/mye23p7uy3k91.png?width=878&format=png&auto=webp&s=53801039f782be69dc799d91686693eb63651d6a ]</div></div><p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Miyota 9015 decorated to look like a PP 240''</p><div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Richard Mille'''</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Richard Mille watches are extremely complicated and use many exotic materials. So far there has only been one attempt at a clone movement for a Richard Mille: a clone movement for the RM 055 by BBR Factory of the RMUL2 movement. Previously all RM055’s used a decorated version of the Seiko NH05A movement.</p><div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''RM055'''</div><div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''RMUL2 Clone'''</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The clone movement is impressive, but flawed and unreliable. This is a movement that should probably be avoided until there is an improvement to its reliability. The movement looks considerably closer to the gen RM movement than the NH05A movement which is used in other RM055 replicas. However, there are obvious flaws, for example the balance wheel shock setting jewel of the clone movement is purple, whereas the gen jewel is clear / white.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">More worryingly, there have been many reports of this movement arriving dead after a watch was shipped from a TD to a customer. Additionally, the movement has significant stuttering of the second hand due to backlash between gears.</p><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">While this movement is an impressive feat of engineering, this movement is not currently recommended.</p><div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/00lk385xy3k91.png?width=882&format=png&auto=webp&s=480dd9134139e6d819346c6e9cc4dfdc185396d3 ]</div></div><p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''RM 55 clone RMUL2 movement''</p><div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''SEIKO NH05A'''</div><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The NH05A movement is well decorated and dressed up to look like the gen RM055 movement, but it is obviously not genuine, and that fact is on display due to the open worked design of the RM055 case. This is a reliable movement. However, a gen RM055 is a roughly half million dollar watch, unless you own a Ferrari, nobody will need to look at the movement to know that your RM055 is a rep. If you like RM reps, buy them, wear them, enjoy them, and don't worry about how real or fake the movement looks.</p><div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/4unbzc11z3k91.png?width=877&format=png&auto=webp&s=486b67d463525e75f368d14aef76803aa374851a ]</div></div><p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Seiko NH05A movement decorated to look like an RM movement''</p><p>[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/wxu9vm/beginners_guide_to_the_clone_movements_found_in/ Source]</p></div>
<div class="et_pb_toggle_content clearfix" style="display: block;"><p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This guide will be an introduction to the clone movements found in Audemars Piguet (AP), Patek Philippe (PP), and Richard Mille (RM) replicas. Just like with the clone Rolex movements, the clone movements for AP, PP, and RM are of varying quality in terms of how well they replicate the genuine movement in form & function, but also quality. However, unlike Rolex clone movements where there can be multiple different clones of a single movement (e.g. the plethora of Rolex caliber 3135 and 3235 clones), with AP, PP, and RM, there's usually just one clone movement, so I'll try to compare and contrast the clone against the alternative which is often a decorated Japanese Miyota 9015 movement.</p>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Audemars Piguet'''</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The most popular AP replica (by far) is the Royal Oak (RO). There are two replica AP movements, one for the RO 15400: the clone 3120 movement by Z Factory (ZF). And one for the RO 15500: the clone 4302 movement by APS Factory (APSF). The alternative to these cloned movements is the Japanese Miyota 9015 movement.</p>
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''AP Royal Oak 15400'''</div>
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''3120'''</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The clone 3120 movement is found in both the Z Factory (ZF) and APS Factory (APSF) AP RO 15400 replicas watches at present (summer 2022). However, both factories used a decorated Miyota movement several years ago before the clone movement became available. So be careful when buying an AP 15400, just because it’s from ZF or APSF doesn’t necessarily mean that it has a clone movement.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The clone movement can be distinguished from the Miyota by the position of the balance wheel at 8 o’clock vs. 5 o’clock on the Miyota. Furthermore, the Miyota has a non-function shock setting without a spring on the balance bridge, whereas the clone has a functional shock setting on the balance bridge.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Unfortunately, both the clone movement and the Miyota 9015 have a slow date change at midnight, whereas the genuine AP 3120 movement has an instant date change at midnight.</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/daro5a7ox3k91.png?width=865&format=png&auto=webp&s=ed34f5f744c121b87118379f563c92a1b898ad9f]</div></div>
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Clone AP 3120''</p>
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''Miyota 9015'''</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The Miyota 9015 is a reliable workhorse movement, and older / lower end AP 15400 replicas used a decorated version of this movement. However, the clone 3120 movement is reliable and is a more authentic option over the Miyota if you’re looking for a genuine appearance through the transparent caseback.</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/jedh2qfsx3k91.png?width=874&format=png&auto=webp&s=f4fcdeeca7605c02bb19b8c11924ceaa7c58fefa]</div></div>
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Miyota 9015 decorated to look like an AP 3120''</p>
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''AP RO 15500'''</div>
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''4302'''</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The clone 4302 movement is new (as of summer 2022), but appears to be an excellent movement. [https://forum.replica-watch.info/threads/a-short-review-of-the-apsf-15500-a4302-clone-caliber.10917474/ The initial review by a watchsmith at RWI] said that the movement is on par with the Noob Daytona 4130 movement (the 4130 Daytona movement is widely considered to be the best clone movement ever made, so this is VERY high praise). Like the genuine AP 4302 movement, the clone features an instant date change at midnight. The quality of this movement makes it the no-brainer choice for an AP 15500.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This movement is used in both the ZF and APSF version of the AP 15500, however, the ZF version has a spelling error in the engraving / printing on the back side of the movement (the word JEWELS is spelled JEWEES on the ZF version as of August 2022). This may be something that gets corrected soon, however, it’s worth checking during QC to ensure this error is not present.</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/v4x2gzuwx3k91.png?width=871&format=png&auto=webp&s=126fb699ad6afa4be1712c553419d7b46d508312]</div></div>
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Clone AP 4302''</p>
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''Miyota 9015'''</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The Miyota is no longer a good choice for the AP 15500 due to the fact that it has a slow date change, and while it is reliable, it is now competing with an extremely high quality replica movement.</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/d2ba9y01y3k91.png?width=872&format=png&auto=webp&s=2ab4d832ce0fab173c72ce4aba4aa7e50a3bc6f6]</div></div>
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Miyota 9015 decorated to look like an AP 4302''</p>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Patek Philippe'''</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">There are only two clone movements available for Patek reps, the caliber 324 for the Nautilus 5711 and Aquanaut, and the 240 for the Nautilus 5712. All other Patek reps use a Miyota or another Asian movement.</p>
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''Nautilus 5711 and Aquanaut 5167'''</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Both the 5711 Nautilus and the 5167 Aquanaut share the same Patek Philippe caliber 324 movement. This movement has been cloned and is available in reps from 3K Factory (3KF). However, older Aquanauts use the Miyota. For the 5711 Nautilus there is a version of the Miyota that has been well decorated and rotated so that the balance wheel appears to be in the correct location compared to the gen 324 movement. However, all of these movements have a slow date change at midnight, whereas the genuine movement has an instant midnight date change.</p>
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''324'''</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The Clone 324 movement can be found in 3K Factory reps of the Nautilus and Aquanaut. This is a good movement, but doesn’t have a very large power reserve and requires a large amount of winding or rotor spinning (possibly due to non gen-spec gearing in the automatic module). The movement can be identified and differentiated against the rotated Miyota by the functional main train wheels visible above the balance wheel which are not present in the rotated Miyota.</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/7uxoldr7y3k91.png?width=875&format=png&auto=webp&s=217337578b63a08f4d27f23bf6c47a4806f68872]</div></div>
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''3KF Clone 324 movement in an Aquanaut''</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/8a1ukcuay3k91.png?width=874&format=png&auto=webp&s=ae5ea562a2d8b6aae657f118470711dc69def79e]</div></div>
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''3KF Clone 324 in a 5711 Nautilus''</p>
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''Miyota 9015'''</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The Miyota 9015 is a common movement that has been discussed above, it is often found in lower end or older Patek reps. It is reliable, easy & cheap to service. It doesn’t have an instant date change at midnight. And it suffers from a loud rotor. This movement is easy to distinguish from the clone 324 because the balance bridge (cock) is anchored on the crown side which is reversed in the clone and gen movement. There are also noticeable differences in the screw and ball bearing assembly of the rotor at the center of the movement. This isn’t a bad movement if you don’t really care about an authentic look, However, given the open caseback on Patek watches, the clone or rotated Miyota are better options.</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/veubucfey3k91.png?width=875&format=png&auto=webp&s=3d27baab4eb6f1ab1a77bf6f1b269814d0f3f9f6]</div></div>
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Miyota 9015 decorated to look like a PP 324''</p>
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''Rotated Miyota'''</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">PP Factory (PPF) has developed a rotated and well decorated Miyota variant that looks more similar to the gen movement than an undecorated Miyota, but is still noticeably a worse imitation than the 3KF clone 324 movement discussed above. This movement is easy to differentiate from the clone 324 movement due to the lack of main train wheels above the balance wheel. Also, the fake “jewels” where the main train wheels should be, are red and the rest of the functional jewels in the movement are purple. The rotated Miyota also doesn’t have its rotor running on ball bearings, whereas the clone and gen both do. The 3KF clone movement is a better option if you want a more gen-like rep.</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/3ic84xcjy3k91.png?width=877&format=png&auto=webp&s=b1e3976d44bcb917ee5e990cdad58d34b4800539]</div></div>
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Rotated Miyota 9015 decorated to look like a PP 324''</p>
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''Nautilus 5712'''</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The 5712 is a Nautilus with a lot of complications. The gen model features a power reserve indicator, small seconds, date, and moon phase indicator. Furthermore, the genuine Patek 240 caliber features a micro-rotor to keep the movement incredibly thin. With all of this complication it is truly impressive that PP Factory (PPF) has managed to build a fully functional clone movement which has only minor cosmetic differences from the genuine Patek 240 caliber. The clone movement doesn’t appear to be available exclusively from PPF, as it has appeared in 5712 reps from GR Factory (GRF) as of summer 2022.</p>
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''240'''</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The clone 240 movement is an impressive feat of engineering. This is a thin movement with many complications. This movement is still very new (as of summer 2022), and as such, there is not yet a consensus as to its reliability, although an [https://forum.replica-watch.info/threads/new-ppf-5712-with-pp240-super-clone.10761517/post-10923200 initial review by a watchsmith on RWI] confirmed that the build quality was good, and there were no surprises.</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/dlrcd0bqy3k91.png?width=872&format=png&auto=webp&s=1078a87137d6eb9d6092a5d105566cbd75e7138f]</div></div>
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Clone PP 240 movement''</p>
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''A23J Movement'''</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">There is an old version of the 5712 that comes with a decorated generic Asian 23 Jewel movement. This version is much thicker than the gen which makes rep 5712s with this movement 10.5mm thick vs. 8.4mm thick for reps using the clone. Also, this movement doesn't have a functional power reserve indicator. With the availability of the clone 240 movement, this is not a recommended option.</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/mye23p7uy3k91.png?width=878&format=png&auto=webp&s=53801039f782be69dc799d91686693eb63651d6a]</div></div>
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Miyota 9015 decorated to look like a PP 240''</p>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Richard Mille'''</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Richard Mille watches are extremely complicated and use many exotic materials. So far there has only been one attempt at a clone movement for a Richard Mille: a clone movement for the RM 055 by BBR Factory of the RMUL2 movement. Previously all RM055’s used a decorated version of the Seiko NH05A movement.</p>
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''RM055'''</div>
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''RMUL2 Clone'''</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The clone movement is impressive, but flawed and unreliable. This is a movement that should probably be avoided until there is an improvement to its reliability. The movement looks considerably closer to the gen RM movement than the NH05A movement which is used in other RM055 replicas. However, there are obvious flaws, for example the balance wheel shock setting jewel of the clone movement is purple, whereas the gen jewel is clear / white.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">More worryingly, there have been many reports of this movement arriving dead after a watch was shipped from a TD to a customer. Additionally, the movement has significant stuttering of the second hand due to backlash between gears.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">While this movement is an impressive feat of engineering, this movement is not currently recommended.</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/00lk385xy3k91.png?width=882&format=png&auto=webp&s=480dd9134139e6d819346c6e9cc4dfdc185396d3]</div></div>
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''RM 55 clone RMUL2 movement''</p>
<div class="_1WODZhR-x-fbMu3MOL9cH1">'''SEIKO NH05A'''</div>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">The NH05A movement is well decorated and dressed up to look like the gen RM055 movement, but it is obviously not genuine, and that fact is on display due to the open worked design of the RM055 case. This is a reliable movement. However, a gen RM055 is a roughly half million dollar watch, unless you own a Ferrari, nobody will need to look at the movement to know that your RM055 is a rep. If you like RM reps, buy them, wear them, enjoy them, and don't worry about how real or fake the movement looks.</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr c1cmiB1jfdq4sxidlPDAx"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi">[https://preview.redd.it/4unbzc11z3k91.png?width=877&format=png&auto=webp&s=486b67d463525e75f368d14aef76803aa374851a]</div></div>
<p class="FJNSiirwoPtG58aeGw2Jx">''Seiko NH05A movement decorated to look like an RM movement''</p>
<p>[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/wxu9vm/beginners_guide_to_the_clone_movements_found_in/ Source]</p></div>


== Guide to who Makes the Best Ladies Replica Watches ==
== Guide to who Makes the Best Ladies Replica Watches ==
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This guide was created to help guide those who are interested in Ladies watches. The factories listed are in order of best to not best, but for many of these there is only one factory making the particular model here.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">This guide was created to help guide those who are interested in Ladies watches. The factories listed are in order of best to not best, but for many of these there is only one factory making the particular model here.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Note:</strong> where it says “unknown factory”, it means a replica exists, but you’ll need to ask your TD with a picture of the watch you’re looking for. Some of these are from smaller factories, with smaller batches, and could be out of stock.</p>
<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM"><strong class="_12FoOEddL7j_RgMQN0SNeU">Note:</strong> where it says “unknown factory”, it means a replica exists, but you’ll need to ask your TD with a picture of the watch you’re looking for. Some of these are from smaller factories, with smaller batches, and could be out of stock.</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Rolex'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Rolex'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Datejust 36mm: GMF, ARF, BPF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Datejust 36mm: GMF, ARF, BPF</p>
Line 927: Line 4,415:
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Yachtmaster 34mm: BP Factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Yachtmaster 34mm: BP Factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Pearlmaster 34mm: K6 Factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Pearlmaster 34mm: K6 Factory</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Patek Philippe'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Patek Philippe'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Nautilus 7118 35mm: 3KF (super rep), PF, MSF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Nautilus 7118 35mm: 3KF (super rep), PF, MSF</p>
Line 934: Line 4,422:
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Aquanaut 35mm: PPF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Aquanaut 35mm: PPF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Twenty~4 25mm: AW Factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Twenty~4 25mm: AW Factory</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Audemars Piguet'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Audemars Piguet'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Royal Oak 67540 37mm: RXW (super-rep)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Royal Oak 67540 37mm: RXW (super-rep)</p>
Line 943: Line 4,431:
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Royal Oak 67601 33mm: RF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Royal Oak 67601 33mm: RF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Royal Oak Offshore 26231 37mm Chronograph: RXW</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Royal Oak Offshore 26231 37mm Chronograph: RXW</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Cartier'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Cartier'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Ballon Bleu 33mm: AF (if available, comes in white, pink and diamond bezel), otherwise 3KF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Ballon Bleu 33mm: AF (if available, comes in white, pink and diamond bezel), otherwise 3KF</p>
Line 958: Line 4,446:
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Tank Must de Cartier (small 29.5 x 22mm): F1 factory with bracelet (with and without diamonds), K11 Factory, DR</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Tank Must de Cartier (small 29.5 x 22mm): F1 factory with bracelet (with and without diamonds), K11 Factory, DR</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Tank Solo (small & medium): AF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Tank Solo (small & medium): AF</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Van Cleef & Arpels'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Van Cleef & Arpels'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Sweet Alhambra 4-leaf clover: VCA Factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Sweet Alhambra 4-leaf clover: VCA Factory</p>
Line 966: Line 4,454:
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Lady Feerie: 5GF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Lady Feerie: 5GF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Lady Arpels Ballerine Enchantee: 5GF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Lady Arpels Ballerine Enchantee: 5GF</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Hermes'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Hermes'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Heure H watch 26 & 30mm: BVF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Heure H watch 26 & 30mm: BVF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Kelly 2: unknown factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Kelly 2: unknown factory</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Vacheron Constantin'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Vacheron Constantin'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Ladies Overseas 33mm: RXW. Good date font, comes in polished or diamond bezel.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Ladies Overseas 33mm: RXW. Good date font, comes in polished or diamond bezel.</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Heritage 31mm: TWF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Heritage 31mm: TWF</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Jaeger LeCoultre'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Jaeger LeCoultre'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Rendezvous Night & Day: ZF super rep, all variations. GF is another good factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Rendezvous Night & Day: ZF super rep, all variations. GF/GOF is another good factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Rendezvous Moon: CCF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Rendezvous Moon: CCF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Rendezvous Tourbillon: RMS</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Rendezvous Tourbillon: RMS</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Reverso One 20mm: IMF (could also be TWF?)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Reverso One 20mm: IMF (could also be TWF?)</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Chanel'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Chanel'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">J12 Electro Dream: TWF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">J12 Electro Dream: TWF</p>
Line 993: Line 4,481:
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Ruban Bow Bracelet: VCA Factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Ruban Bow Bracelet: VCA Factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Premiere: BVF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Premiere: BVF</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Omega'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Omega'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Constellation 24mm : 8848F, GF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Constellation 24mm : 8848F, GF</p>
Line 1,001: Line 4,489:
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Aqua Terra Seamaster ladies 34mm: VSF, RWF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Aqua Terra Seamaster ladies 34mm: VSF, RWF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Ladymatic: V6F</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Ladymatic: V6F</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Chopard'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Chopard'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Happy Sport all sizes (30mm, 33mm, 36mm): BVF, YF, LT Factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Happy Sport all sizes (30mm, 33mm, 36mm): BVF, YF, LT Factory</p>
Line 1,007: Line 4,495:
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Imperiale: unknown factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Imperiale: unknown factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">L’Heure Du Diamant Round: unknown</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">L’Heure Du Diamant Round: unknown</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Breguet'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Breguet'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Reine de Naples: ZF (super rep)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Reine de Naples: ZF (super rep)</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Bvlgari'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Bvlgari'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Serpenti: BVF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Serpenti: BVF</p>
Line 1,016: Line 4,504:
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">LVCEA: BVF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">LVCEA: BVF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">B.ZERO1: BVF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">B.ZERO1: BVF</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Dior'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Dior'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">La D De Dior 25mm: unknown factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">La D De Dior 25mm: unknown factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">LA D DE DIOR ROSE CÉLESTE: “original Single” Factory (原单厂)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">LA D DE DIOR ROSE CÉLESTE: “original Single” Factory (原单厂)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Gem Dior 27mm: TWF multiple dials</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Gem Dior 27mm: TWF multiple dials</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Piaget'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Piaget'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Limelight Stella: CCF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Limelight Stella: CCF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Limelight High Jewellery 31mm: unknown factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Limelight High Jewellery 31mm: unknown factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Limelight Gala: unknown</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Limelight Gala: unknown</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Gucci'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Gucci'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Bee watch with two tone bracelet: unknown factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Bee watch with two tone bracelet: unknown factory</p>
Line 1,033: Line 4,521:
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Vintage Quartz flip cover: “original Single” Factory (原单厂)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Vintage Quartz flip cover: “original Single” Factory (原单厂)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Diamantissima 22 & 27mm: “original Single” Factory (原单厂)</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Diamantissima 22 & 27mm: “original Single” Factory (原单厂)</p>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"><div class="_3Oa0THmZ3f5iZXAQ0hBJ0k _2LjgQiHLCZ9LDbCQx5KaOi"></div></div>
<div class="_2-UiOdhyj4wHBv7Rc2FeDr"></div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Louis Vuitton'''</div>
<div class="_7T4UafM1PdBGycd5na9nF">'''Louis Vuitton'''</div>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Tambour Monogram 34mm: AF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Tambour Monogram 34mm: AF</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Tambour Horizon Smart watch: unknown factory</p>
*<p class="_1qeIAgB0cPwnLhDF9XSiJM">Tambour Horizon Smart watch: unknown factory</p>
[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/w8yzhk/ladies_watch_guide_who_makes_the_best/ Source. ]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/w8yzhk/ladies_watch_guide_who_makes_the_best/ Source.&nbsp;]
 
== Guide to buying watches directly through Chinese sellers ==
</div>Here is a long winded Q&A of what I've learned after purchasing about 20 watches on the cheap directly from Chinese sellers, bypassing DH and Ali. Don't be alarmed at the length of the tutorial, once you do it once it is pretty easy.
 
I'm just going to assume since you are reading this your native language is English. And as always do your own research, this is not financial advise.
 
* '''''How do I buy from China, I only speak English?''''' Me too! Google translate is amazing. First thing you need is a buyer's website, I am using www.sugargoo.com. Super easy to register, and I use paypal for payment.
* '''''WTF is a sugargoo?''''' I have no idea, but ''www.sugargoo.com'' is a website that will act as your personal shopper on China based websites.  It looks like these websites sell to the people you are already buying from on DHgate and Aliexpress. Sugargoo is cutting out the middle man by buying for you direct.
* '''''I've registered on sugargoo, now what?'''''  You need to find  that sweet automatic "roleplay" watch all the kids are wearing now a days.  First try searching on a Chinese based website like www.1688.com. Don't even think about buying quartz either, people on this reddit will hunt you down and cut off a finger!
* '''How do I search''' '''www.1688.com, I only speak English?''' This is probably the hardest part of the whole process.  If using Chrome, it usually just translates to English and you can just type in what you want. YOU WILL GET WILD PRODUCTS IN THE RESULTS! Some NSFW, so be careful.
** I found the best way to search is by downloading an image of the watch. Could be an image of the gen watch or just one you found on DH gate that is out of your price range. Just use the camera icon in the search bar and select the image.
** Another trick is to use the Google box. Go to <nowiki>https://translate.google.com/</nowiki> and type in what you want to translate to Chinese simplified. Try 'seamaster automatic watch' and it comes out 海马自动腕表
*** Take 海马自动腕表 and plug it into the 1688.com search bar, but make sure to switch back over to simplified Chinese translation first in Chrome. And Bam! You have a nice list of sweet Omega Seamasters to buy, but also some other weird watches pop in there too.
* '''''I found my dream Omega Seamaster but it's $160, I thought this was supposed to be cheaper??!!''''' No silly goose, it's in Yuan. That's actually $25 (exchange rate is about 0.15)
* '''''Oh, cool that is cheaper. Now I can look like James Bond!''''' No you cannot. James Bond wears a real Omega and is a rich athletic,  super spy, that's slick with the ladies. YOU are buying "roleplay" watches, driving a 2009 Toyota, and can't do a single pullup.
* '''''All true, but I want to buy that sweet watch anyway. How?''''' That is simple, just copy the first part of the web address of that watch from 1688.com and paste it into the sugargoo.com search engine. This is one I actually purchased, <nowiki>https://detail.1688.com/offer/687033449495.html</nowiki>.
* '''''Sugargoo says I have to add at least two watches to my cart, why?''''' True, you are buying wholesale so most sellers require at least two watches. I typically find a seller that has various colors of a style I like and buy two. But I have been told on this Reddit, you can message the seller through Sugargoo first and ask to buy just one to check the quality. You can also add two to the cart and remove one before the final purchase. Then message the seller through Sugargoo after purchase. Only issue is, if the seller says no, the refund goes back as a credit on Sugargoo. Buyer beware.  The message system is pretty quick and you can ask via the message button for any extras from the seller like watch boxes. Sugargoo is negotiating on your behalf.
* '''''Wow, shipping only takes 4 days. Sweet!''''' Stop being obtuse, it only takes a few days for the seller to ship to Sugargoo. Not to you, who lives in a different hemisphere. Once Sugargoo gets your watches, they take purty pictures and post them for your enjoyment. You can then return those watches if you don't like the quality.
* '''''I love my Seamaster's from the pictures, how about shipping?'''''  There are a bunch of shipping options and time frames. Just click on the watches you want shipped and hit submit parcel. You can also research shipping cost under the 'estimate shipping' button. I typically wait until I have several watches to ship (Sugargoo holds your items for up to 100 days) and package them together. I just received package of 8 watches for $33 in shipping to the US. Beware, if you buy boxes to go with your watches the package will be too large for the cheaper shipping options. The cheap options have been very slow due to COVID (about 4 weeks). Here is a link to a discount code for redditers: <nowiki>https://www.reddit.com/r/Superbuy/comments/xd30hs/superbuy_long_term_discount_code_renew_again_add/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3</nowiki>
 
Pros: Very cheap alternative to DH and Ali.
 
Cons: Wacky search engine, required to buy more than one watch, no reviews or actual pictures from buyers attached to those reviews. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ChinaTime/comments/10ampcq/noob_guide_to_buying_watches_directly_through/ Source]
 
== Guide to Watch Glass ==
There are various materials used for watches that are labelled as “glass”. For example, plastics, mineral glass, sapphire coated mineral glass and pure sapphire crystal.
 
'''Mineral glass'''
 
We have to distinguish between untreated and tempered mineral glass. The chemical name is silicon dioxide (SiO2). Rock crystal and smoky quartz are closely related to mineral glass. By adding different oxides, such as aluminium oxide or boric oxide, mineral glass can be refined. This leads to better scratch resistance and hardness. In general, mineral glass is harder than plastic, it is neither osmotic nor does yellowing occur.
 
Though scratches cannot be as easily removed through polishing and the material can break. In the worst case, it splinters and can damage the movement and injure the person wearing it.
 
'''Mineral glass coated with a thin layer of sapphire'''
 
To compensate for the disadvantage of mineral glass, many manufacturers use mineral glass with a thin laye of sapphire, as this is only marginally more expensive. Erroneous, they often claim to have a ´sapphire glass´, which leads to significant misinformation of customers. The quality differences are huge compared to a pure sapphire glass. Therefore, when you are looking for a watch, you should always keep an eye on the type of sapphire glass that is used.
 
'''Plastics'''
 
As indicated by the name, the material consists of a plastic named polymethyl methacrylate (short: PMMA). This plastic is better known by the names Perspex, acryl glass, or hesalite glass. The main advantages of these materials are: They are very lightweight, relatively impact-resistant, easy to polish and quite cheap. The major disadvantage, given by the low density, is the significant vulnerability for scratches. UV rays and time may lead to yellowing of the material. Moreover, due to its osmotic characteristics, it can also be slightly water-permeable.
 
'''Pure sapphire glass'''
 
Although sapphire glass is transparent, the name “glass” is misleading. Sapphire glass contains a crystalline structure which makes it highly scratch-resistant. After the moissanite and the diamond, it is the third-hardest transparent material on the planet. Sapphire glass is made out of a pure synthetic sapphire (monocrystalline) which is produced from melted aluminium oxide (Al2O3). The production creates huge crystals which are cultivated by the means of electrolysis. Subsequently, the crystals are divided into slices and the shape of the watch glass is later time-consumingly cut out of these slices.
 
Consequently, domed sapphire glass is the best watch glass in the world. It might only break if extreme forces are encountered and can only be scratched with a diamond or moissanite. If you encounter any scratches on your sapphire glass, they are probably caused by aluminium and can be easily removed with a rubber.
 
== Guide to Watch Clasps and Buckles ==
A watch clasp is essentially the security system that binds the ends of a timepiece’s bracelet or strap together. Just like all the parts of a timepiece, the watch clasp is a significant element. It plays a huge role in terms of making sure the watch fits and is kept safely on our wrists. Without it, we would not be able to keep any watch secured around our wrists, and having one would be quite pointless.
 
==== Pin Buckle ====
[[File:Imageaergarga.png]]
 
''Pin Buckle of Hamilton Khaki Aviation Ref. H76645540''
 
One of the most popular types of watch clasps is the pin buckle. We are sure you have encountered this type of traditional watch clasp in many timepieces. This watch clasp goes by several names, so you might be a little confused about what to properly call it. It is also sometimes known as the “tang buckle or the Ardillon buckle.” Regardless, these terms are interchangeable and essentially mean the same thing.
 
The pin buckle functions similarly to how waist belts are used. A buckle, made mostly from metals like stainless steel, titanium, or in some rare cases, platinum, rests on the shorter end of the strap. A pin, also known as the buckle tongue, is placed right in the centre of this buckle. While wearing the watch, the longer side of the strap, with various adjustment holes, passes through the pin buckle. The pin is then inserted into one of the adjustment holes, allowing it to accommodate wrists of any size. The strap is then secured by the free loops placed just below the pin buckle.
 
==== Folding Clasp ====
[[File:Imageasef.png]]
 
''Folding Clasp of Rado Captain Cook Ref. R32105313''
 
Just like the pin buckle, the folding clasp is one of the most frequently employed types of watch clasps. This watch clasp variant is most often seen on metal bracelets. Depending on what type of material the bracelet is made from, the folding clasp usually follows its construction as well. As such, it can be made using stainless steel, titanium, platinum, or ceramic.
 
The folding clasp is typically composed of three components that simply lay over one another when being fastened onto the wrist. The clasp is then sealed shut in place by one or two protruding bolts, which are fitted into a designated lock. For instance, the image of the Rado Captain Cook Ref. R32105313 above shows off an unlocked folding clasp with its laid-out sections. You can also see the two push buttons that are used to release them.
 
The folding clasp is one of the most convenient types of watch clasps and it renders the watch very easy to both wear and remove at the same time. However, this can be a drawback at times because of how easy it is to unlock the folding clasp. You might find that the folding clasp is prone to unintentionally snapping open while the watch is being worn, especially if you are engaging in vigorous activities that jostle the clasp.
 
==== Deployant Clasp ====
[[File:Imagea3253T.png]]
 
''Deployant Clasp of Omega Seamaster Ref. 233.92.41.21.03.001''
 
Compared to the previous entries, the deployant clasp is a slightly more complicated type of watch clasp that combines both the pin buckle and the folding clasp. This clasp is made up of a metal pin buckle on one end, one or two folding sections in the middle, and a spring bar on the other end. The spring bar is attached to the shorter side of the watch strap, while the metal pin buckle is inserted into the longer side of the strap, which has multiple adjustment holes.
 
Once you have selected the right adjustment hold that ensures a snug fit on your wrist, clip the metal pin buckle down. Like the folding clasp, the folding sections of the deployant clasp can be laid over one another and clicked into place. The longer side of the strap is then tucked into the free loops of the strap.
 
The deployant clasp is usually made from stainless steel and sold separately from the watch. It is quite rare to find a timepiece that comes with the deployant clasp. In fact, many watch wearers tend to dismantle the traditional pin buckles on their leather straps before installing deployant clasps as replacements. This is because deployant clasps are easier to wear and provide more security than the traditional pin buckle.
 
==== Safety Deployment Clasp ====
[[File:Imagef4t4r5.png]]
 
''Safety Deployment Clasp of Breitling Superocean Ref. A17367D71B1A1''
 
For those seeking a watch that will not easily slip off of your wrist, the safety deployment clasp is probably one of the most secure types of watch clasps you can find. It operates just how a traditional folding clasp does, but with an added layer of protection. The safety deployment clasp has an additional flap that is sealed on top of the folding clasp, functioning as a reliable double lock mechanism.
 
[[File:Cartier-santos-buckle-double-folded-deployment-clasp.jpg|alt=eaergar|594x594px]]
 
''Cartier deployment clasp for leather strap.''
 
For a dive watch like the Breitling Superocean Ref A17367D71B1A1, which has to withstand strong underwater currents, the extra flap of its safety deployment clasp serves as an improved safekeeping system. With this type of clasp, you will not have to worry about accidentally opening the lock of your watch’s folding clasp, even as you explore the cavernous ocean depths. In the unfortunate circumstance that you do accidentally jolt your folding clasp open, the flap provides an additional level of security that ensures your watch will not just fly off your wrist.   
 
==== Butterfly Clasp ====
[[File:Imagea32tg.png]]
 
''Butterfly Clasp of Cartier Santos de Cartier Ref. WSSA0009''
 
The butterfly clasp, also known as the hidden folding clasp, is a wonderfully seamless and subtle design. This type of watch clasp consists of two folding metal hinges. When the butterfly clasp is locked, both of its components are hidden on the inside of the bracelet, so that its exterior is presented as a consistent, immaculate display.  
 
As demonstrated by the image of the Cartier Santos de Cartier Ref. WSSA0009 above, upon closing the butterfly clasp, its two foldable sections are kept hidden underneath the bracelet. Since the lock of the butterfly clasp is kept on the inside of the bracelet, pressed against your wrist, it is harder to jostle or accidentally open it. As a result, the butterfly clasp tends to be safer and more secure than a regular folding clasp.
 
One downside, however, is that this design might feel a little uncomfortable on your wrist, especially if you are wearing the watch for long periods of time.
 
[[File:Imageqw3azsx.png]]
 
''Butterfly Clasp of Cartier Santos de Cartier Ref. WSSA0037''
 
By simultaneously pressing the two push buttons of the clasp in the middle, you can unlock the clasp. This results in the butterfly clasp spreading its two uniform, foldable sections out in a symmetrical manner, resembling the wings of a butterfly, hence the catchy name of the clasp.
 
==== Sliding Buckle Clasp ====
[[File:Imageaw3s.png]]
 
''Sliding Buckle Clasp of Seiko 5 Sports Ref. SRPD69K1''
 
The sliding buckle clasp gives its wearers an especially hassle-free way of putting on a watch. The buckle of this clasp usually lies in the middle of the longer side of the strap. You can adjust the buckle at any time by simply sliding it along the bracelet. Attached to the other end of the bracelet is the metal clasp, which clamps down onto the sliding buckle and securely locks it in place.
 
When wearing a watch with the sliding buckle clasp, all you have to do is press the clasp down onto the buckle until it clicks shut. If you find that it does not fit quite right, simply slide the buckle either up or down the bracelet, until you have found the proper length that best suits your wrist size. This type of watch clasp can be seen on watches with stainless steel mesh bracelets, such as the Seiko 5 Sports Ref. SRPD69K1.
 
==== Diver Clasp ====
[[File:Imageaw325t4yh5r.png]]
 
''Diver Clasp of Citizen Promaster Ref. NY0125-83E''
 
The diver clasp, more commonly known as the diver extension, is a type of clasp designed solely for professional dive watches. The composition of the diver clasp is actually quite similar to that of the folding clasp. The only difference is that the diver clasp has an additional built-in adjustment tool located underneath it. This adjustment feature can be operated to allow for either a tighter or looser fit. This allows for easy, efficient adjustment of the bracelet’s length. This is especially useful for divers who have to wear diving suits while underwater.
 
An example of a watch with the diver clasp would be the Citizen Promaster Ref. NY0125-83E. In order to utilise the adjustment tool of this watch’s clasp, simply press the two push buttons on the clasp, and then slide it in a forward or backward motion to change the length of the bracelet to your desired size. The diver clasp is locked in place by tooth-like notches, which serve as a reliable security feature that keeps the bracelet safely around your wrist.
 
==== Glidelock Clasp ====
[[File:Imageqa3r5y.png]]
 
''Glidelock Clasp of Rolex Submariner Ref. 116610LN''
 
In every sense of the word, the Glidelock clasp is essentially the same thing as a diver clasp and serves the same function. The primary difference is that the Glidelock clasp is patented by Rolex and operates in a slightly different way. As a result, the Glidelock clasp is found exclusively in Rolex dive watches, such as the Rolex Submariners and the Rolex Sea-Dwellers.
 
For instance, take a look at the Glidelock clasp on the Rolex Submariner Ref. 116610LN, pictured above. From the image, you can see that this Rolex watch’s Glidelock clasp has a couple of adjustment notches situated in the middle of the clasp. The fit of this bracelet is altered by snapping out the removable side of the clasp and then pushing it forward for a tighter fit or backwards for a looser one. The clasp is then secured in place by the adjustment notches in the centre. Once you have found the desired bracelet length, all you have to do is snap the clasp close in the same spot where you opened it.
 
==== Jewellery Clasp ====
[[File:Image4a36y.png]]
 
''Jewellery Clasp of Gucci Horsebit Ref. YA139507''
 
The jewellery clasp is seen quite frequently in watches that cater solely to women. As can be seen from the Gucci Horsebit Ref. YA139507 above, the jewellery clasp is made up of two components: the latch and the hole. In a nutshell, the latch on one end of the bracelet goes through the hole on the other end of the bracelet. The latch is folded over the latter, clicks into place, and snaps shut with its own built-in locking mechanism.
 
The jewellery clasp tends to be very slim and demure, exuding elegance and femininity. This is why it is often used in timepieces for women. However, one big disadvantage of the jewellery clasp is that it only comes with one hole that can be latched onto. As a result, it is absolutely impossible to adjust the bracelet lengths of watches with jewellery clasps. This can pose some difficulty when it comes to finding fashionable women’s watches with suitable sizes for your wrist.
 
==== Velcro ====
[[File:Imagea23q5.png]]
 
''Velcro Strap of Omega Speedmaster Ref. 311.30.42.30.01.005''
 
Velcro is not necessarily considered a traditional watch clasp, but in the context of helping to fasten a watch’s strap in place, it sure functions as one.
 
Velcro works in a simple hook-and-loop manner. One long end of the textile or nylon strap is attached to tiny hook fasteners, while the other end is embedded with loop fasteners. When these two surfaces are pressed against each other, they cling to each other, in turn achieving a firm and secure fit around the wrist. One advantage of having a Velcro enclosure is that it is highly adjustable and can fit all types of wrist sizes.
 
== How a 2836 GMT Movement is Made ==
The only GMT movement that ETA produce is the 2893. Enterprising folks in far off countries have modified 2836 movements for quite some time with a homebrew GMT complication added to the movement.
 
You can also do a more complicated swap by taking the balance wheel, pallet fork and escape wheel and replacing them on the 2836 movement to gain a low beat movement.
 
Here you can see the original 2836 movement on the left. I have removed and replaced the following components with the original swiss parts on the 2846. These are parts that are modified by the chinese factories to allow the GMT function.
 
Part 2595 - Date Jumper Maintaining plate - This part has been modified slightly to allow for the modified Intermediate Date Wheel
 
Part 2543 - Intermediate date wheel - This has a small secondary gearing placed atop the original gear. This turns the GMT wheel during the normal cycle of time. It meshes with a gear on the underside of the GMT wheel.
 
Part 242 - Canon Pinion with Driver - Taller canon pinion to account for the additional GMT wheel.
 
Part 255 - Hour Wheel - as above, taller to allow for new GMT wheel.
 
Part 2567 - Day Corrector - originally the part to allow quick setting of the day disc. Replaced with a new bi-directional gear that allows quick setting of the GMT hand.
 
[[File:TeyDSRw.png]]
 
[[File:LXuOaAd.png]]
 
[[File:4NjMCvq.png]]
 
[[File:NdWFC8t.png]]
 
Seen below is the GMT wheel itself. The upper gearing meshes with the gear running where the day corrector normally would and the gearing on the underside runs off the intermediate date wheel. And finally as installed on the finished movement with the brass washer in place.
 
[[File:SAYpS6Y.jpg]]
 
[[File:PU7f3Ka.jpg]]
 
[[File:2D7tbey.jpg]]
 
== Genuine Rolex Watch Weight Guide ==
'''Gen Rolex Watches Weight Guide'''
 
''Note:''
 
''Weight differences may apply for various reasons.''
 
''This article is not meant to be a definite weight list for Rolex watches.''
 
''The weights mentioned below are with a full-linked bracelet.''
 
''In some cases, the weights stated may or may not be full-linked.''
 
Weight of Submariner 114060: 152.9 grams. 2 links removed.
 
Weight of Submariner 16618: 175 grams.
 
Weight of Submariner 5513: 119 grams.
 
Weight of Datejust 1601: 83 grams.
 
Weight of Datejust 116201: 145 grams.
 
Weight of Datejust 116233: 136.8 grams.
 
Weight of Datejust 41 126334 Oyster bracelet: 143 grams.
 
Weight of Day-Date 118206: 225 grams.
 
Weight of Day-Date 118209: 179 grams.
 
Weight of Deepsea Sea-Dweller 116660: 215 grams.
 
Weight of Sea-Dweller 16600: 147 grams.
 
Weight of Sea-Dweller 126600: 194 grams.
 
Weight of Daytona 116509: 200 grams.
 
Weight of Daytona 16528: 156 grams.
 
Weight of Daytona 116520: 140 grams.
 
Weight of Rolex Daytona 116500: 141 grams.
 
Weight of GMT-Master II 16718: 164 grams.
 
Weight of GMT-Master II 116710LN: 152 grams.
 
Weight of GMT-Master II 16713: 138 grams.
 
Weight of GMT-Master II 16710: 127 grams.
 
Weight of Rolex GMT-Master II 126710BLNR/BLRO: 140.04 grams.
 
Weight of Milgauss 116400: 150 grams.
 
Weight of Milgauss 116400: 150 grams.
 
Weight of Yacht-Master 16622: 146 grams.
 
Weight of Explorer II 16570: 126 grams.
 
Weight of Explorer II 1655: 118 grams.
 
Weight of Explorer 214270: 132 grams (one link removed).
 
Weight of Explorer II 216570: 156 grams.
 
Weight of Sky-Dweller 326933: 191.5 grams.
 
Weight of Sky-Dweller 326934: 174.6 grams.
 
== Known Replica Watch Clasp/Bracelet/SEL Codes ==
78360 - GMT/Datejust - Non SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with clasp:
 
T10 - EBay Italian bracelet - Endlinks stamped 558B
 
93150 - Submariner - Non SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with fliplock clasp:
 
D12 - Raffles - stamped 62523H 18 - Bracelet stamped 70216 - Endlinks stamped 455b
 
MA11 - Yuki - stamped 93250 - Bracelet stamped 93250 - Endlinks stamped 448b.
 
Z10? - JKF/Cartel - stamped 76753? - Bracelet stamped 93150 - Endlinks stamped 580.
 
S9 - EBay Italian bracelet- Endlinks stamped 501B
 
93250 - Submariner - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with fliplock clasp:
 
EO6 - JF - stamped 93250 - SEL engraved EO 93250.
 
EO6 - TC V1 - stamped 93250 - SEL engraved EO 93250.
 
DE6 - TC V2/WM9 - stamped 93250 - SEL engraved EO 93250.
 
PJ4 - TC V5 - stamped 93250 - No engraving to SEL.
 
PJ4 - TC V6 - stamped 93250 - ??
 
PJ4 - TC V7 - stamped 93250 - No
 
DE6 - BP - stamped 93250.
 
CL1 - Sean - stamped 93250 - ??
 
CL1 - TW Best - stamped 93250 - SEL engraved AD 93288. (Being sold by Detroit Watch Works as genuine. Although their SEL engravings show AD 93250. See here: <nowiki>https://forum.replica-watch.info/thr...-works.405198/</nowiki>)
 
CL10 - ARF - stamped 93253 - SEL engraved EO 93250 - *904L
 
93160 - Sea-Dweller - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with fliplock clasp:
 
OP10 - BP - stamped 93160A - SEL engraved EO 93160A
 
EO10 - TC - stamped 93160A - SEL engraved EO 93160A
 
93253 - Submariner - SEL Bi-Metal Oyster bracelet with fliplock clasp:
 
CL1 - MBW - stamped 93250 - Bracelet stamped 93250.
 
OP3 - WM9 - stamped 93253 - Bracelet not stamped - SEL engraved 93253 (Wrapped)
 
OP10 - BP - stamped 93160A - Bracelet not stamped.
 
?? - Sean - stamped 93150 - Bracelet stamped 93250 - SEL engraved CL 93250 & 16613. (Wrapped)
 
97200 - Submariner - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Glidelock Clasp:
 
PJ3 - NOOB V1 2014/BP/REGMARINER - SEL engraved ??
 
2VU - NOOB V2 to V5 - SEL engraved RS 97200
 
1FY - NOOB V6S - SEL engraved G3Z 97200
 
ST9 - NOOB V7 - SEL engraved 80K 97200
 
ST9 - NOOB V7 - SEL engraved RS 97200
 
ST9 - NOOB V8 - SEL engraved RS 97200
 
ST9 - NOOB V9 - SEL engraved 80K 97200 - *904L
 
ST9 - NOOB V10 - SEL engraved G3Z 97200 - *904L
 
T1G - NOOB V10 - SEL engraved G3Z 97200 - *904L
 
1NQ - Noob V12 - SEL engraved RS 97200
 
ST9 - NAIL - SEL engraved 6YZ 97203 - *904L
 
ST9 - VRF - SEL engraved RS 97200 -
 
J9K - VRF MAX - SEL engraved ?? 97200 - *904L
 
ST9 - BP - SEL engraved RS 97200
 
PJ3 - BP - SEL engraved ??
 
6YZ - BP V2/GM Factory - SEL engraved ??
 
Y8C - ARF V1 - SEL engraved 590 97200
 
E5N - ARF V1 & V2 & V4 - SEL engraved 5VM 97200 - *904L
 
X7F - LF - SEL engraved 5WD 97200
 
PJ3 - JF V1 - SEL engraved ??
 
PJ3 - REGMARINER - SEL engraved ??
 
X0P - JF V2 - SEL engraved 590
 
ST9 - DJF - SEL engraved ?? - *904L
 
0HA - DJF - SEL engraved T4J 97200- *904L
 
6YZ - GMF - SEL engraved 6YZ 97203 - *904L
 
M7J - EXF - SEL engraved ??
 
7KY - ORF - SEL engraved ?? - *904L
 
C4R - ZZF V2 - SEL engraved P5M 97200 - *904L
 
C4R - ZZF V2S - SEL engraved RS 97200 - *904L
 
7QJ - RXF/XF - SEL engraved T2A 97200 - *904L
 
AOW - JDF - SEL Engraved AOW
 
7JG - VSF - SEL Engraved T2A 97200
 
8MY - ZF - SEL engraved H8A
 
1LD - Clean - SEL Engraved Z1R
 
97JB00 - Submariner 41 - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Glidelock Clasp:
 
1LQ - VSF - SEL Engraved 8XM 97JB00
 
H7Z - VSF - SEL Engraved 8XM 97JB00
 
H7Z - VVSF - SEL Engraved 7JG 97JA03
 
1LD - Clean - SEL Engraved T2A 97JB00
 
H2C - Green Maker - SEL Engraved 1LO 97JB00
 
U1N - EWF - SEL Engraved 3MK 97JB00
 
97220 - SD43 - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Fliplock Clasp:
 
453 - VRF - SEL engraved H4Y 97220
 
4RL - ARF - SEL engraved C4R 97220
 
4RL - ARF V3 - SEL engraved C4R 97220 - *904
 
C4R - Noob - SEL engraved ??
 
C4R - NOOB V2 - SEL engraved 0NW 97220 - *904
 
453 - GMF - SEL engraved H4Y 97220 - *904
 
98210 - DSSD - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Fliplock Clasp:
 
T4J - BP V2 - SEL engraved ??
 
Z6Y - ARF V2 - SEL engraved D2Y 98210 - *904
 
98220 - DSSD - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Fliplock Clasp:
 
T1U - ARF - SEL engraved 8UF 98220 - *904
 
78200 - GMT - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster polished centre links with Fliplock Clasp:
 
OP8 - Noob V2 - engraved 15/423 - SEL engraved OP 78200
 
5NF - Noob V7 - SEL engraved ??
 
5NF - Noob V8 - SEL engraved ??
 
71H - Noob CHS - SEL engraved ??
 
Y8C - JF v2 - SEL engraved ??
 
PJ1 - BP - SEL engraved ??
 
0HA - DJF - SEL engraved 6GF78200 - *904
 
T1G - Noob V9 - SEL engraved 6GF 78200 - *904
 
T1G - Noob V10 - SEL engraved ?? 78200 - *904
 
6MW - VRF 3186 Clone - SEL engraved 89K 97200 - *904
 
P3L - ARF 3186 clone - SEL engraved P3L 78200 - *904
 
5XZ - GMF - SEL engraved ?? 78200 - *904
 
69200 - GMT - SEL Stainless Steel Jubilee Fliplock Clasp:
 
6LX - DJF - SEL engraved A3W 62611 - *904
 
6MW - GMF - SEL engraved K8P 69200 - *904
 
6MW- BP - SEL engraved K8P 69200
 
6MW- Noob - SEL engraved K8P 69200 - *904
 
6MW- Noob - SEL engraved 1LD 69200 - *904
 
6MW - VRF - SEL engraved 1LD 69200 - *904
 
97203 - Submariner - SEL Bi-Metal Oyster with Glidelock Clasp:
 
Y8C - JF - SEL engraved 469 97203
 
6YZ - VRF - SEL engraved ??
 
2VU - Noob - SEL engraved PJ 97203 (Wrapped)
 
6YZ - BP- SEL engraved ?? (Wrapped)
 
78590 - Daytona - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Fliplock Clasp:
 
7CD - ARF - SEL engraved 9US 78590 - *904
 
5NF - Noob - SEL engraved ??
 
X0P - JF 7750 - SEL engraved ??
 
Y8C - JF v1- SEL engraved ??
 
X0P - JF - SEL engraved ??
 
7GT - BP v2 - SEL engraved ??
 
Y8C - JF v2 - SEL engraved E0 78493
 
OP8 - Phong - Clasp engraved 15/423 - SEL engraved AS 78490
 
Z1H - Noob 4130 clone - SEL engraved ??
 
T1G - Noob 4130 V2 - SEL engraved Z6S 78590 - *904
 
5NF - JH - SEL engraved C1Z 78590
 
7CD - GMF - SEL engraved ?? - *904
 
63600 - Datejust - SEL Stainless Steel Super Jubilee bracelet:
 
COC - ARF - SEL engraved 931 63600
 
CL5 - BP - Clasp engraved 72200 - SEL engraved ??
 
72600 - Datejust - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with Oysterclasp:
 
7UM - ARF - SEL engraved UOP 72600A
 
3NY - BP - SEL engraved ??
 
70400 - Oyster Perpetual - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with Oysterclasp:
 
7UM - JF - SEL engraved 7GT 70400
 
[[Category:Watches]]
__FORCETOC__
__INDEX__
__NEWSECTIONLINK__

Latest revision as of 03:22, 10 April 2024

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The-ultimate-guide-to-replica-watches.jpg

Community Links

Watch Buy/Sell/Trade Forum

r/ChinaTime Reddit

r/ChinaTime Discord

r/1688Time Reddit

r/RepTime Reddit

r/RepTimeBST Discord

r/RepTimeQC Reddit

RepGeek Forum

RWI Forum

RWG Forum

Watch Quality Tiers

Grouping Tier Avg Price Example Factories/Sources Features (not exhaustive)
Shitters Junk > $70 Unknown Folded tin bracelet, bad cyclops, cheap movement, incorrect print/markers
Entry $70-160 'AAA', U1, GDF, TTF, TWF, SK, WWF Screw/pin bracelets, better quality bracelet, better cyclops, incorrect datewheel/placement, average weight. Note that AAA is not a factory, just a quality level.
Mid Mid $160-400 BP, EWF, GMF, K11 Improvements on above, better dial print/markers, medium quality bracelet
High Tier High $400-800 VSF, CLEAN, GF, PPF, 3K, ZF, GMF, R8F, BBR, RRF, OMF, AF, APS Closer to 1:1 quality, on NWBIG list, better bracelet quality, correct placements/markers
Epic $800+ Check NWBIG List Over the top builds, customs, excessive gems, complex reps, tourbillion, correct placements/markers

Trusted Dealers List

This is a list of Trusted Dealers for r/RepTime tier sales and have undergone a strict process to be approved as a TD.

The websites & email addresses listed here are the only one to be used. Any other website found online or in a post other than from the dealer itself are not recommended. Be careful, copycat websites are one of the most common scam out there and their addresses are very similar. Do your due diligence before making any online order.

Andiot Watches
https://andiotwatches.com

Asian7750
https://www.asian7750.co

ChazingTime
https://chazingtime.io

Dealer Clocks
https://dealerclocks.to

Davidsen Watches
https://www.dsnwatches.com

Duke Jones
https://www.dukereps.com/

Geek Time
https://geektime.watch/

HontWatch
Web: http://www.hontwatch.ru/
WhatsApp: +86 131 1330 7655

InTime Watches
https://www.intime06.co

Jtime Watch Store
https://jtime.io

Mirotime
https://mirotime.io/

Narikaa
https://narikaa.smugmug.com/

Perfect Clones
https://www.pfc8388.com/

PureTime
https://PureTimeWatch.io

TheOneWatches
https://www.theonewatches.io/

Toro Bravo
http://www.trb88.club

Watch Eden
http://www.WatchEden.net

Trusty Time
https://trustytime888.io/

Extended list:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/forums/trusted-rep-dealers.147/

Last update 10/06/23

Recommended Sellers List

Below is a list of sellers verified through the community as having a variety of content and confirmed legitimacy as a seller at r/ChinaTime tier. Their product quality will range from bottom shitter to high tier, based on your request, preferences, cost and QC approval.

These are different to a Trusted Dealer (or TD) at r/RepTime level, as these TDs go through a stringent review process

How to buy

Contact your preferred Recommended Seller or Trusted Dealer with a photo/link of the watch you want.

Wait for them to reply with price & availability.

Sellers list

WuWatch
Web: https://wuwatch.cartel.click/
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/21178530
WeChat: WuWatch-
WhatsApp: +86 199 2759 6945
Yupoo: N/A

Duke Jones
Web: https://www.duke-jones.com/
WhatsApp: +852 6744 9430
WeChat: Dukejones888
Discord: dukejones_watches
https://p719583387.x.yupoo.com/albums PW: 888888

Newmen Time
WeChat: HTL2018_RX_123213819
WhatsApp: +86 152 9889 6876
Discord: newmen_rich
Yupoo: https://newmentimepiece.x.yupoo.com/ Pw: 213514

The One Watches
Dhgate: N/A
Web: https://www.theonewatches.io/
WeChat: The5711
WhatsApp: +86 170 8193 4955
Email: Theonewatches.ru@gmail.com

Jason007
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/14498114
Web: https://u-onewatch.com/
WeChat: N/A
WhatsApp: +86 159 1439 7518 & +86 137 3343 7007 (Aaron: +86 186 7944 2775)

Andiot Watches
WeChat: andiot2022
WhatsApp: +86 151 210 37121
Website: https://andiotwatches.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/198214499927656/
Yupoo: https://andiotwatches.x.yupoo.com/albums/
Reddit: Andiotwatches
Discord: andiotwatches_88391

Time Mimic
WeChat: timemimic
WhatsApp: +86 156 1356 1120
Website: https://time-mimic.com
LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/timemimic
Reddit: timemimic1314
Discord: goldfish_07647

Necoclock
WeChat: necoclock
WhatsApp: +85 255 373 282
Website: https://www.necoclock.ru

Btime
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/20042879
Web: https://58vakcak.com/
WeChat: N/A
WhatsApp: +86 185 8882 2256

Hanbelson
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/20777759
Yupoo: https://hanbelsonwatch.x.yupoo.com/ PW: 2022930

lkwatches
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/19780983

Stas
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/21229352

Bilibili_watch
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/21059386
Yupoo: https://zywatch.x.yupoo.com

Luxurywatches 1
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/21113018
Yupoo: https://kevin-snir.x.yupoo.com/

Fujimin003
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/20539379
Yupoo: https://alan-123456.x.yupoo.com/albums

Watch GT01
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/21347248

Joan007
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/20952500

Hello_watch
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.com/store/20223682

lussoreloj
Dhgate: https://dhgate.com/store/21441757

Mark1994
Dhgate: https://dhgate.com/store/20535850

New Sellers List

This is a list of sellers that have been vetted and newly introduced to the community.

After a number of successful sales, they are moved from New Sellers to the Recommended Sellers list.

5Awatch
WeChat: enma0313 / +86 155 946 55620
WhatsApp: +86 155 910 76016
Website: https://www.5awatch.com/
Yupoo: https://5awatch.x.yupoo.com/

Aron Watch
WeChat: AronWatch
WhatsApp: +86 132 9531 376
Discord: gongtk0314
Instagram: aron_Watch1
Yupoo: https://alungwatch.x.yupoo.com/ Pw: 000000

Ada Watch
WeChat: ZengJ-Jnu
WhatsApp: +852 9371 8859
Discord: adawatch
Web: https://www.awesomerolex.com
Yupoo: https://zhangyida9.x.yupoo.com/albums

Fashion King
WeChat: Luckyyss7
WhatsApp: +852 5145 1388‬
Discord: .ramosmagdalena
Reddit: Leahbhi
Yupoo: https://fashionkingluxury.x.yupoo.com/

Nick Watch
WeChat: nickwatch98
WhatsApp: +86 199 1465 3665
Reddit:
Discord: nickwatch
Dhgate: https://www.dhgate.m/store/21874246

YeKing
WhatsApp: +86 158 1552 3113
Reddit: r3pwatches
Discord: yeking._81854
Website: Under construction

Watchify
WeChat: wxid_2450itbyjfcs21
WhatsApp: +86 15022356134
Reddit: u/Outside_Conflict6915
Discord: watchify_02240
Website: https://watchify.top/

1688 Sellers List

Biguan

***(CLOSED)***
WeChat: Lanco82234504

WhatsApp: +86 181 0221 7714 (Assistant)

Telegram ID: 8618102217714

Lin Feng

WeChat: noob88551

Website: https://weidian.com/?userid=1878165008&share_relation=987a630c94311830_1741519095_1&wfr=BuyercopyURL

Deloveg:

WeChat: h222222288888

Email: 137651846@qq.com

Website: below in the comment.

David

Whatsapp: +86 1956 3020 400

WeChat: Junyou1009

Email: 923374261@qq.com

Telegram: https://t.me/DavidTimepieces

Website: https://a202108011254448300001888.szwego.com/static/index.html#/shop_detail/A202108011254448300001888

Watch-VS

Wechat: dou-biao

Whatsapp: +86 135 7016 5593

Website: www.watch-vs.com

Weidan: https://weidian.com/?userid=167260324&wfr=wx&ifr=itemdetail&source=home_shop&sfr=app

Li Li

WeChat: AZQY9988

Whatsapp: +86 131 4935 9680

Website: https://a201803310145220380026826.szwego.com/static/index.html#/shop_detail/_dHwqfQqy-5_nRcvVT-bG4Kl1i3iS76oW2zjbD9Q

6. New Times Watches - Jason

Whatsapp: +1 631 334 8593

Reddit: u/NewTimes_shop

Website: https://a202311092223213732001336.szwego.com/static/index.html#/shop_detail/A202311092223213732001336

Automan

Whatsapp: +86 173 1689 4543

Andiot

Whatsapp: +86 151 2103 7121

WeChat: andiot2022

Website: : https://andiotwatches.com/

Telegram: u/ElliotBlack2012

Mr Zhang

WeChat: d306009

*he said he can be reached on Skype, waiting for details

Website: https://detail.1688.com/offer/728746193557.html?spm=a26352.13672862.offerlist.141.737a1e62jiA1ig

UsdCome Watches

WeChat: 13101771592

Whatsapp: +8613101771592

Skype: usdcome

Email: usdcome@hotmail.com

Jade/Strangewatch

WeChat: Strangewatch (changed by the seller)

Whatsapp: +852 668 25090

Telegram: to be confirmed

S3AL-Time

Wechat: S3AL-TIME

Reddit: u//S3AL-TIME

Trish

Wechat: NicolasWatches

Whatsapp: +39 3791 785 437

Reddit: u/TrishYou

Heping

WeChat: wsu58999

YonXing

Telegram: @yonxingwatches

WeChat: yonxingwatch

Reddit: u/D-ConsumerGMT

Email: yonxing001@gmail.com

Weidian Warriors Seller List

Chez Pierre

Perfumes. The best in the industry. Discover your favourite scent by visiting below! Chez is based in Europe - ordering is usually direct to customer instead of through an agency.

https://chez-pierre.com/

Boring Developer (Customs)

Just a guy who does custom shoes... but very, very well. The quality on his pairs, as well as the details will impress. He's more of a very high end seller, who does customs as well as replicates actual pairs very well.

https://developerboring.com/

ZZZTOPXX

All the types of clothing, designer, and other bags you could imagine. Decent prices, and pretty good products. Browse around and check for yourself.

https://zzztop.x.yupoo.com/albums

Shark Breeder

A new seller, stocks many products with very good prices/ discounts! He's currently trying to prove himself to the foreign market, but he's got great products and will eventually grow in reputation because of his immaculate customer service. 1cm 1cm is run by a very important person in the replica scene - he's a crucial agent for a very important factory in China. This is his store with great offerings, good prices, and fantastic quality! Check him out today.

668

668 is an up and coming ambitious seller, with a lot of knowledge, and shoes! They've got great prices for great batches, and great sales as well. Hit them up!

001sports

A great new seller on the block, they’ve got great prices for all your essentials… and more. Definitely a to-go to seller if you’re looking to snag a bargain!

Cappuccino

A staple of rep buyers for a very long time, Cappuccino is well renowned in the foreign rep community and in China as well. We have probably all bought from Cappuccino and can agree that he's very solid. Very nice guy as well.

KB

A new seller within Kobe reps! They've got their own factory line, and produce batches. They specialize in production, take a look for the best looking Kobe shoes.

PAI

A new up and coming seller, PAI provides everything you need, with great service! He's one of the subreddit's to-go-to sellers, check him out below!

Harry

Harry sells many great designer shoes, at affordable prices. He's a reliable outlet for designer shoes, and can be trusted with your orders. Check him out!

3madman

3madman are well known for their high-quality products of several brands. They focus primarily on Corteiz, Trapstar, ADWYSD, Fendi, Aime Leon Dore, Protect Ldn, Badfriend, Carpet. They have many more gems readily available, check them out now!

No. 1 in Tianjin

He's a great seller, very popular in China, and has numerous fronts from which he sells a large selection of products. He's known for his high-tier discounts, and prices on lower tier/ discounted defective pairs. Highly recommended/ vouched for by many buyers.

Sneaker King

This seller sells multiple models at great prices, and sells great pairs of sneakers. Definitely a new go-to seller if you're wanting good service, sneakers, and even some fun! Check them out below.

A1Top

The most popular seller in mainland China, and one of the most popular Weidian sellers on larger forums + with beginners. Good seller, however does not have a massive reputation built up in budget forums. Still, a very good seller and definetely one who has almost everything.

CSJ

Essential seller. Renowned for their shoes, have a very good reputation regarding high tier sales, and shoes. Definitely a classic seller.

7UP

Massive seller as well, although has a faltering reputation due to numerous controversies a few months ago. Has taken steps to fix this, and although there have been some mistakes, he has often done very well at satisfying his clients - so if he can put this stuff behind him, he is forgiven. In my opinion, he holds the best sales in terms of discounted defective pairs, even if they are sometimes inconsistent. He is the only seller that holds GX defective products. I would highly recommend 7UP, although several people wouldn't feel the same - those are the ones who have not been consistent customers of his for numerous years.

RG

Extremely friendly, kind, and has great sales. One of the to-go to sellers in terms of sales, and if you want very good stuff at a low price! Check them out below.

Budget Shoes

A good option for some budget sneakers, they’ve got some unique choices for buyers, including Slides that go up to very large sizes. Check them out with the links provided below!

Big Player

Has some high tier bangers at pretty decent prices, as well as very good lower tier sales. Often has a lot of discounted stuff. Renowned in China, highly recommended for sales items. He's a very nice guy as well, although I sometimes refer to him as Super Player forgetting that his name is really Big Player instead of Super Player.

GTR

A seller that burst onto the scene a while ago with very good sales pieces and good discounts on higher tier batches. Very interesting person to talk to as well, and provides great products for buyers.

DargonRep

Has a wide variety of products that suit a lot of people, very versatile style/ fun items as well! Very well known in communities for his production, and rising in reputation. Check him out!

Introduction to Replica Watches

Replica watches are a weird thing. People from r/reptime love the word “replica” and get butt-hurt when their $400 Rolex is called “fake”. We can understand that, as those replica watches can truly be works of engineering themselves and can even be of the same quality as the pieces that inspired them.

At Chinatime, though, we do not put on such airs. If our watches are fake-ass watches that cost less than some of my Uber trips, and that’s OK.

We could spend a lot more money on arguably better watches that look more like the originals, but there’s something truly rewarding about tracking down a treasure on Ali Express or DH Gate that looks close enough to the genuine article for $50 that one simply can’t be found when ordering one of the master-class Reptime watches. Sure, one day I’ll have an ARF* or Noob Submariner that would fool my Rolex rep, but for now my U1 Submariner fools my Uber driver and parole officer, and for now that’s good enough for me. Oh, it keeps good time, too, which is nice.

Getting started

If you’re here to learn more about this world, then that’s great, because this interest in cheap rep watches that you have may turn into a hobby, which may then turn into an obsession. I’ve made friends on this subreddit because that’s what like-minded people do when they all become fans of the same thing, and we’re happy you’ve decided to learn more with us.

Automatic vs Quartz

To get started it helps to know a bit about watches themselves, besides how they look. Most of the watches we talk about in this subreddit are what are referred to “automatic” watches. Most watches in the world are quartz, but for the most part they don’t carry much weight here, because most of the watches we’re interested in the fake-versions-of are automatics, not quartz. This is because quartz watches can literally be found in vending machines, but automatic watches have a degree of engineering and craftsmanship to them, even the cheapest of them. Also, most of the Swiss shit we can’t afford are autos, as well.

An automatic watch is simply one that is wound by the person wearing the watch simply doing their shit. There’s no battery; instead there is a rotor that is connected to the mainspring of the watch. As the wearer does whatever the fuck it is they do all day, their movement moves the rotor, which acts as a pendulum, which winds the watch, and then it tells the user what time it is so they can get home in time to catch their wife in bed with their boss. These are the important matters we deal with.

Not all the watches we deal with here are autos, but the vast majority of them are. Quartz units are generally relegated to the chronograph copies (which means “watches that are also stopwatches that you’ll never actually use”), though there are a few non-chrono quartzes peppered here and there, but not many.

The Rotor & Movement

The rotor of an automatic watch is mounted on what’s called the movement of the watch. The movement is not the sweep of the seconds hand but rather the name for the guts of the watch itself — the gears, the springs, the cogs, and everything else that makes a watch keep time. It is arguably the most important part of a watch to consider when making buying choices, so knowing a few basics can really help you to make the right choice when it comes time to buy your first watch.

For example, a large percentage of the watches on Chinatime will be built around a fairly generic movement called the 2813. The 2813 is a Chinese clone of the Japanese Miyota 8205/8215 movement, which is to be found in a number of Citizen brand watches, as well as high-end Invicta divers and many, many more. The Miyota is a well-respected and sturdy movement, but the 2813 clones not so much. The most famous of these clones is the DG2813, though the rest are made by several factories in China. Because of this the quality varies from movement to movements and thus watch to watch, since there’s very little in the way of quality control when the Chinese factories make our watches for us. This is part of why they’re so cheap, and really part of the fun and charm.

Fun fact! There is an ETA2813 that is an actual Swiss movement, and the Chinese 2813 (often called a2813 where “a” means “Asia”) may have started life as a clone of it, but it’s a Miyota clone now, so there we go.

So now you know what a movement is and why it’s important, but that’s not what you’re here to find. You’re here to find some timepiece that will act as either a panty-moistener or pants-tightener when you wear it around your town/school/cellblock/institution, and most people don’t care about the movement.

Finding the watch you want (or ‘W2C’ aka Want To Cop/obtain)

You probably instead already have a model of watch in mind that you’d like to find a cheap rep for, and there’s a really good chance that there’s at least some Chinatime-budget version out there for you. It’s just a matter of finding it, and that is where this subreddit shines, because chances are that some other cheap fuck had the exact same idea as you, and since so many of our users share their triumphs with the rest of us there’s a good chance you’re watch is linked to in one of the posts already here. I know most subreddits have a “search it first” mantra, and that’s because that shit works, so use it.

If your watch has been found and purchased before, and the users reported back here (which they should do, more on that later), then you can usually find in their post or comment a link to the watch they bought under the label of “W2C”, which stands for “Want to cop”, which is a weird phrase brought over from Chinatime’s big dickhead brother Reptime. Cop or w2c means to “get your hands on” and “want to” is something none of Harvey Weinstein’s victims ever said.

Using DHGate

So you find the watch, find the W2C link, and then you’ll be taken to a place to buy the watch. Usually that place will be DHGate, (or The Gate,) a Chinese website that’s sort of a second home for us here. That’s because The Gate has about a thousand vendors selling about a couple hundred (at least) different rep watches at a variety of price points, meaning that you’ll probably be able to find your watch there at the price you want.

DHGate is hard to navigate for most of us because it’s a Chinese website in English and they do a very poor job of quality control when it comes to organization of products. This may be on purpose — selling fake versions of real watches violates international law, and by not making it easy to find a particular watch they get a bit of reasonable deniability when questioned by the authorities. But with some practice, patience, help from here, and luck, you’ll be able to find what you’re looking for.

Fun fact! Buying replicas of real watches for a fraction of the price is understandably illegal in most countries, so all of us here are, technically, taking part in a huge act of fraud and/or larceny, you newly-minted criminal you. The good news is that Customs in most countries are far too busy with actual problems to really care about what we do here, so don’t sweat the whole petty felony thing too much.

So you’ve got your watch in mind, you’ve searched for the W2Cs on here and found a few, and even checked out the links on The Gate, which is awesome, because that means I’m doing a good job here. The next logical step is choosing which rep watch to get, and this is where things can get a bit tricky — not to mention sketchy.

This may surprise some of our more sensitive newcomers, but it has to be said: Not all of the vendors on sites like DHGate can be trusted! In fact, it’s best to assume that most of them are out to scam you, because it’s very easy to scam someone on the Internet from a completely different hemisphere, and it happens all the fucking time. But you don’t want it to happen to you, and neither do we, so this next part is for you: Do your fucking research.

Also, use our guide of trusted sellers.

There are a few vendors that we like to go to again and again (more on them later) because they are simply good to work with. Some of them might be a couple bucks more expensive here and there but it’s made up for with customer service and not getting your credit card charged for $2500 in the middle of the night in Hunan Province.

Navigate & Communicate on the ‘Gate

It’s worth noting that in Chinese culture there is (traditionally speaking) no such thing as “customer service”. Our western notion of sales customs, where the vendor caters to the customer, is not universal, and certainly not the norm in parts of Asia. This is an important thing to keep in mind, as things don’t always go smooth, and acting like a total Karen will get your messages blocked and you’ll never get a resolution. Always be respectful (but not a sucker) and things will go a lot smoother.

When looking over the different offerings from the different vendors, the two most important things you can do are:

  • Ask us for advice, such as “has anyone else here ever dealt with ‘TittyBobbyJill20000057’?

  • Check the customer reviews on the product you’re looking at!

As noted before, there are a lot of independent vendors on The Gate and the other sites, and chances are you’re not the first person looking for your particular watch, so learn from the mistakes and successes of those who came before you. Feel free to ask anyone here, and always — always! — check the customer reviews, especially if they have photos.

Fun fact! There are a few search terms you can use to find the watch you want since you generally can’t find them via their actual brand names because that just becomes blatant counterfeiting, and we can’t have that. For Omegas, search for “co-axial”; for Rolex, search for the model number; for Tag Heuer sports watches, search for “I have no taste in anything and will die alone”. Try it out yourself!

This is because very often the photos of the watch you see on the DHGate listing is not a photo of the actual watch you’ll be receiving. Often it’s the genuine (or “gen”) article in the photos, presumably to help shoppers find what they want. They will often have pictures of the actual units they sell mixed in, so check those, but make sure to check for photos of received units in the reviews, as these are unfiltered and unmoderated feedback directly from and to customers like you. It’s a great tool that will save everyone a lot of grief and headache if used correctly.

Asking for Quality Check (QC) Photos

In addition, reputable vendors are often happy to send you photos of the actual watches themselves if there are none in the reviews. Add to that the fact that we love doing our own reviews here, and you’ll be in good shape to buy the watch you want from a trusted seller and be very happy with it.

This, though, is where things get tricky. Since sites like DHGate and AliExpress are in China, not every bank or credit card vendor will work to place your order, so make sure that you have at least two different accounts to try from. In addition, keep in mind that there are sophisticated hacker-bros in China that would love nothing more than have access to a foreign credit card that works in their country easily. For my own purchases, I use my CapitalOne credit card via their Eno system which generates a one time “burner number” for each of my transactions. See if your cards or bank offer the same kind of thing if at all possible.

If you’ve found your watch, and you’ve found your vendor, and made your purchase, then you should have your watch — sometime in the distant future.

Shipping from China

Cheap quality watches are cheap by skimping on a few things, and one of those things is fast shipping. Most watches include free shipping, (via China’s EMS or ePacket services,) but that free shipping can take a long fucking time. It’s not uncommon for watches to take a month and a half to arrive, so if you’re in a hurry to get something for a certain event, like a court date, use one of the paid services (DHL, etc.) to get it faster. But keep in mind that you still might be in for a wait, because that’s how things in China work.

Some sellers are faster than others, and your research here should tell you which are known for fast shipments, so it’s worth taking into consideration when making your choice.

Customs & Replica Watches

Sometimes, though, things happen, and it’s far too common for things to go wrong on the shipment part.

Fun fact! Chinese people are a lot like you, only way more broke and oppressed. The average person there makes about $15k a year. The few bucks they make off of selling fake watches to the rest of the world is real money to them, so if things go wacky don’t automatically assume that you’re being scammed, just be aware that they’ll also do anything they can to not have to issue a refund, so be willing to work with them.

If your watch gets seized by customs then you’ll get a letter. Ignore it, tell your vendor, and they’ll generally send you a new one. This kind of thing is factored into their prices as the cost of doing business.

If your tracking number shows your watch going somewhere far away that’s not you, there are a few reasons why this can happen. If you’re shipping with DHL you should know that they often recycle waybill numbers (I’m not kidding, it just happened to me). It’s also possible the vendor just mixed up your tracking number with someone else’s, which is also common. Or, also too common, your vendor is trying to scam you. Do not let them off the hook.

Every case is different, so we won’t attempt to tackle a “how to” on dealing with problems like this on sites like The Gate, but enough people here have been through it that they’ll be happy to help you navigate it, since we hate when those fuckers try stuff on any of us.

Receiving Your New Watch

So let’s say you’ve managed to not fuck up all of the above. That means that your watch has arrived and you’re stoked, and you should be! The process isn’t the easiest, but the reward is worth it.

Wear your watch. Get to know it. Maybe you’ll need to re-size the bracelet (we can help walk you through that) or something’s wrong with it (that, too), or maybe you need to brag to some people (that would be us). That is why we do ask that you share it with us. (Don’t forget the lume shot!)

Take photos, videos, post a review, post a W2C link, and answer any questions others may have, because you were only successful because others pass on their knowledge to you, and it would be good to show the other newcomers how it works. It’s part of what makes this subreddit more than just a place to get links and instead a place that’s genuinely fun to waste time on.

We’re glad you’ve decided to take the morally ambiguous step towards becoming a Chinatime bro or bro-ette (for there are more rep-ladies here than one might think) and welcome you to the world of like-minded cheapskates who would still like to enjoy build quality and the classical aesthetics that go along with world class timepieces.

Step by Step Guide for Ordering a Watch

Choosing a Recommended Seller or Trusted Dealer

Recommended Sellers and Trusted Dealers are listed above.

Remember, TD's do not make the watches! They are simply the middle men between you and the Factory (VSF for example). Mostly, the TD's do not have physical contact with the factories or watches, they simply order them, then a courier will drop off a bulk order to them. Then the TD will issue QC photos.

Please do not think they walk to the factory to buy your watch and collect it, it's not how it goes. This is also how delays in QC's happen, as a TD could be waiting for a batch of a certain watch to be made, thus, delaying your QC. Some TD's will have 24 hour QC stock on hand, which you can ask for a list of. Usually however this is previously RL stock or something they have bought in bulk to offer as discounted.

Trusted dealers have earned their way to that status – trusted – because they have a large customer base and are willing to go through investigations through the forums that have a tough and active moderation team (RWI, RWG, etc) if a sale goes awry.

Trusted dealers get not a ton of dough from your sale, but they almost all offer a customs guarantee - you will receive a replacement watch for free if customs seizes it. Be nice and remember that they are doing work for you and should be compensated for that time.

2. Choosing Your Watch and/or Factory

A mid to high tier watch is built by a specific factory. Examples will be: CF, VSF, ZF, BP, GMF, EWF to name a few.

There are also watches that are classed as Not Worth Buying In Gen (NWBIG).

All reps have tells. There is no perfect rep, so RESEARCH first and decide on which flaws you can live with.

3. Purchasing a Watch

Now that you have decided on the watch you want, it's time to buy. There are typically three ways to buy. I will list in the order I believe to be the easiest, and how to go about it. I will also give a mock example where applicable. Be aware it is always common practice to check the factory still exists and are still making the watch you require. This to a TD is referred to as "In Stock".

Option1. WhatsApp (or WeChat etc)

Find the correct WhatsApp number for your chosen TD. (The TD links have already been listed in section 1). Message the TD:

(You) Hi, can you source me a (VSF 116610LN) please, are they in stock at the factory still? How long for QC and how much ? Thanks.

Now, there are such things as time zones, so if you don't hear back from the TD in ten mins or so, consider they may be sound asleep. Allow anything up to 12 hours for a reply. Some Td's have massive inbox queues and it could take 24 hours to receive a reply during busy times. The Td will then reply for example:

(TD) Hi, $568 free shipping. In stock 3 day QC.

It's as easy as that, next you will need to issue payment (see section 4) and give your Name and Postal address. The TD may require an email address to send your QC link to, Some send the QC and deal solely on whatsapp.

Option 2. Purchasing via TD's website.

It is imperative you email the TD before you go this route to check the watch is still being produced. A lot of watches on websites are no longer available as they barely maintain their websites by removing old stock. It is also a great way of taking your money and getting you to switch to something else.

You'll have to make an account on the website and/or fill out your details, then, once you have checked out, the TD will contact you for payment (see Section 4). Do not upload any credit/debit card details if asked. Email is a slow process and it could take 3 days to receive payment details. Some Td's only use email, so this is one of the pitfalls of going this route, especially if you encounter a problem once you receive the watch. QC will likely take longer and in general be a slower process than whatsapp. You Have Been Warned!

Option 3. Direct Email/DM via forum.

Some TD's (Sead from supermirrors for example) are only contactable this way. They will list their current stock on their forum page. You will then have to DM or Email them your requirements the same way as mentioned in option 1. This is another reasonably slow process.

You can simply send a photo of a watch you are after to a TD and they will tell you if it can be sourced.

Option 4. Direct from DHGate

Platforms like DHGate have a payment facility which includes a dispute system and more. More details here.

4. Payment

Most TD's will help guide you through the payment process. Here are some of the ways you can pay.

Wise or Western Union

Easiest way?: install the respective apps or visit the official website, create an account and enter the details provided by the TD. Then issue your payment. Best exchange rate is via Wise and it is easy to use. You can even link the TD's confirmed payment via whatsapp with Wise. Guides on how to use both are on their respe websites.

Paypal F&F

Some, if not most will require previous transaction history before they dabble in Paypal with you. Some like Mirotime and Geektime usually accept payments this way first off.

Crypto

Obviously if you pay this way you'll be sending your crypto to a TD's wallet. You'll probably have knowledge on how to use wallets etc. Be sure to record/track the transaction via the blockchain.

4. Credit/Debit card

I would advise against paying via credit/debit card UNLESS you are using a one time use created card number. Many CC company's will provide this. Remember you are dealing in a counterfeit organization ran predominantly (in the eyes of the law) by criminals. Your TD may be Trusted but the third party they use to take payment may not be. Don't risk being cloned or charged for other fee's.

5. QC (Quality Control)

QC photos can take anything from a matter of hours to weeks. It's all dependent on the watch you bought and if the factory are producing batches. Sometime a TD will have stock in hand. Raids, public holidays and batch times can effect the waiting times. If you haven't received QC within 2 weeks ask your TD for an update. It's down to your resolve on if you want to swap to an available watch or require a refund.

Once QC photos are received you should generally get good help over at r/RepTimeQC if you follow the template used there. I would advise to look up previous posts of the watch you ordered to grasp the common QC issues that can arise. Do not be lazy and write "looks good" for everything..

6. Shipping

It can take anything from a week to 2 months to receive a package depending on where you are on the planet. 17Track is a good app to use for keeping an eye on your parcel. Most TD's have a customs seizure warranty and will replace any watch taken by customs. If this happens, do not reply to the letter you receive and contact your TD. The consensus is just wait it out, it will get there eventually.

7. Receipt of Package/Watch

  1. Remember you have bought a rep made in a low wage factory. The finish may have sharp edges and will need the bracelet adjusting. Buy a decent bracelet removal tool and screwdriver to undo the bracelet screws.
  2. Movement. Now, although replica movements have improved vastly in the past few years, you cannot expect it to be running at +/- 2 secs a day accuracy unless it has been Serviced and properly regulated! Running a non serviced replica is fine, but if its running +30secs a day fast or slow when you receive it, then it's actually acceptable. Yes, your Seiko or homage shitter may be more accurate, but it was assembled in much cleaner conditions, correctly oiled, and assembled in a gen watch factory. When setting dates, forward your hour hands first, so the date changes, then move to 6 o'clock. Now change your date. Automatic watches can be hand wound, so google "how to hand wind an automatic watch".
  3. Water Resistance. Assume your watch is not water resistant, and get it tested. It is your choice if you want to ride bareback into the waters. Do check the case back for tightness and the crown is screwed in tightly. Source

Glossary of Common Terms

AD: Authorized Dealer who sells genuine watches.

AP: Audemars Piquet.

AR: Anti-Reflective coating. It is a coating that is placed on watch crystals to deflect glare. Can be single or double sided. Double AR can scratch as one layer is on the outside of the crystal.

B&R: Bell & Ross.

BCE: Short for Breitling Chronomat Evolution.

Beginmariner: An entry level Submariner. Referred to by other names such as Noobmariner and VIPmariner.

Bling: A watch encrusted with diamonds or jewels.

Breit: Short for Breitling.

BST: Buy, Sell & Trade

Builder: A Watchsmith or Watchmaker who builds watches from the ground up.

Bump: The process of bumping a thread back to the top of the new posts section because the poster feels it contains information they want others to see.

C1: A model of Concord watch.

CC: Credit Card.

CG: Crown Guard.

CN: Short for China or Chinese.

CNY: Chinese currency or Chinese New Year.

CONUS: Continental United States (See IN CONUS).

DD: Rolex Day Date

DHL: A shipper often used by the dealers.

DJ: Rolex Datejust

DRSD: Rolex Double Red Sea-Dweller

DW: Datewheel.

EMS: Express Mail Service. They are the usual courier for packages.

ETA: A Swiss movement used in watches. Also available as a China made clone. Gen (Swiss) ETAs are now very rare in reps.

Fakebreaking: A phenomenon wherein rep buyers constantly break certain models of watches. Even if the movements in those watches are commonly used in gens with no issues. This is caused by a failure to understand the limitations of a mechanical timepiece in general. Gen owners are usually not afflicted by this. An example would be the Rolex Daytona. (See Seconds @6).

Fedex: A package delivery service. NEVER USE THEM FOR REPS!

Fiddy: Panerai 127

Fidestro: Panerai 217

FM: Abbreviation for Franck Muller

Franken: A watch that has had genuine parts added to it in order to make it closer to the genuine counterpart.

Gen: Short for genuine watch.

Group Buy: A forum-wide mass buy where items can be purchased at a discounted price.

GBP: British Pound.

HBB: Hublot Big Bang.

HVS: High Value Sale.

Black Magic: An all black Hublot Big Bang.

IMO: In my opinion.

IN CONUS: A designation when something or someone is in the Continental United States. Also a designation in sales ads when someone will only ship within that area (See CONUS).

IWC: International Watch Company.

Lume: The material applied to a watch dial that makes it glow in the dark.

LV: Abbreviation for the Rolex anniversary LV (Lunette Verde) Submariner. Also used to describe Louis Vuitton.

Modded: A watch that has been altered from it’s OEM state.

Mods: Customisations applied to a watch.

Modder: Someone who performs aftermarket modifications to timepieces.

MOP: Short for Mother of Pearl dial.

NWBIG: Stands for ‘Not Worth Buying In Genuine’. A watch with a replica so good there is no point paying the real counterpart.

OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer.

OP: Original poster.

PAM: Panerai.

PO: Short for Omega Planet Ocean.

POS: Piece of shit.

PP: PayPal. Also an abbreviation for Patek Philippe.

PVD: Physical Vapor Deposition. A particle vacuum coating process used on watches.

QC: Quality Control, Usually refers to the photos sent by a dealer to approve the watch you will be receiving.

Rehaut: The metal ring between the crystal and dial on a watch.

Rep: Short for replica.

RG/Repgeek: A replica forum.

Rollercoasting: When a watch hand has not been installed level. As it spins it moves up and down vertically like a rollercoaster and at some point touches the inside of the crystal jacking everything up.

Rollie: Rolex.

RS or Recommended Seller: Sellers that operate (potentially) outside the TD lists created by watch forums like RWI, RWG etc. These are sellers that have been used by multiple members of the community and are safe to buy from.

ROO: A model made by Audemar Piquet, the Royal Oak Offshore.

RWG.CC: A replica forum.

RWG.BZ: Our sister forum, often referred to as “The wild west of rep fora”

RWI: A forum full of autistic and rude old fucks that think elitism about fake watches is cool.

SEL: Solid End Link. A type of bracelet end link (the bit that joins the bracelet to the watch).

Slevin: Nickname for the IWC Aquatimer.

SMP: Short for Omega Seamaster Professional.

SOH: Breitling Superocen Heritage

SOSF: Short for Superocean Steelfish. It is not SFSO, SSFO, SOF or SF .

SV: Supporting Vendor. A Type of dealer.

Tag: Tag Heuer.

TNT: Another delivery service used by the dealers. Generally for air shipment.

Trustytime ’aka Andrew’: a dealer.

UN: Ulysses Nardin.

UPO: Short for Ultimate Omega Planet Ocean.

UPS: United Parcel Service.

USPS: United States Postal Service

V1/V2/V3/V20????: A term applied to each new version of the previously described ‘Ultimate/1:1/Exact copy’ that was released even though it was already perfect.

VC: Vacheron Constantin

W2B/WTB: Want To Buy aka Where can I find this watch so I can buy it.

W2C: Want To Cop aka Where can I find this watch so I can buy it.

Watch Expert: Someone who has extensive knowledge about timepieces. They are often also a Watchsmith, Watchmaker or Modder (See Builder & Modder).

WU: Western Union. Also ‘Wu’ which is short for the watch dealer WuWatch.

Yachtie: Short for Rolex Yachtmaster.

Buying Replica Watches Common Q&A

Q: I see the watches on DHGate, but they’re missing the logos. Will the watch I get have the logo?

A: Unless otherwise stated in the listing, you bet. The reason that they don’t show the logo in most of the photos is because by not showing them then they have plausible deniability when the authorities come knocking on their door, which happens from time to time. Without the logo, they’re selling “homages”, which is fine. If a logo accidentally falls off the back of a truck and ends up on your faux Patek, then, ya know, oops and shit.

Q: I want to buy something cheap to start with to get used to things. What’s the best watch I can get for $XXX?

A: As stated above, nearly every watch has multiple grades available from different vendors. The Rolex Submariner is probably the most-replicated watch in the world, being that it’s such an iconic status symbol all over the globe. On DHGate you can find them for as little as $12 for a half-plastic quartz shitter, all the way up to $700 clones that are almost completely identical in every way to the original. Not all watches have good cheap versions, but some do. Omega’s Planet Oceans and Seamaster 300s have both inspired rather cheap reps in the $26-32 range that are surprisingly good for the money and make great choices for first-time buyers. (I still wear my $28 Planet Ocean on the regular because it’s a really great watch, period.)

Q: Why r/Chinatime? Why not just merge with r/Reptime?

A: For the most part, Chinatime deals with watches in the $30-$120 area, and anything above that goes to the snobby dudes over in Reptime (JK, fellow rep-bros! Love you too!). Their focus is far more on the complete replications and 1:1 cloning of watches, and some of that shit is fascinating. Expensive, sure, but fascinating.

Since most (but by no means all) ChinaTime reps aren’t in that neighbourhood of sophistication this subreddit was spun off to be its own thing. That said, I’d be surprised if more than ten percent of the people subscribed to ChinaTime aren’t also subscribed to RepTime.

Q: Am I going to go to jail?

A: Not for this, but probably for that other stuff. You need to learn how to delete your browser history.

Q: Shut the fuck up and tell me where I can find a XXX!

A: First off, fuck you. Second off, no, I won’t, but u/SvB78 made this fantastic set of entries that should get you started because he’s a great guy like that. Or girl. It’s the Internet and I don’t want to make any assumptions here.

Q: Did Epstein kill himself?

A: Nope.

Q: How long will my cheap fake watch last?

A: That’s a great question and one that could be a whole post this long on its own. In short, it depends, which I know is not a satisfying answer. There are a couple things to consider, namely “what movement is it?” and “was it put together well?”

If you’re rocking a 2813-based model, it can be a crap shoot. I’ve had three U1 Submariners. My first one broke (my fault) so I ordered a second. It froze after a week. I ordered a third and it’s sturdy like a well-trained horse and should last awhile. These all use the 2813 movement mentioned above.

I also have an Omega Seamaster 300 Spectre clone that I got on the cheap that has a Tongji (or Chinese “unified”) movement, one of the most bare-bones and cheap mechanical movements out there, and it’s not missed a beat in nearly a year. (This watch is a good watch, but a bad, bad rep.)

So, again, there’s no easy answer for your question. Your best bet is to ask your fellow ChinaTimers here.

Q: I can’t seem to find the watch I want. What do?

A: If you have a vendor you like then feel free to message them and ask if they can find it for you. It’s not hyperbole to say that every popular luxury watch on the market right now likely has a rep available, so feel free to ask.

Q: So do I now know everything I need to know to ChinaTime right?

A: You know enough to get started, and thanks for using ChinaTime like a verb. That was cute.

There’s more than can be found from RepTime, though how much of it is applicable to ChinaTime is up for debate.

Q: Will I be a fraud if I walk around with a fake-ass Rolex or Patek on my wrist?

A: Yeah, but you’ll be a dope-looking fraud, so who cares?

As a general tip, keep your luxury within reason. It would make sense for a person with a half-way decent job to afford an Omega Seamaster or a Longines, but if you’re attending community college and sporting an Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshore then you’d best believe that you’re going to need a really fantastic explanation for how you got it, which may need to include a whole backstory that involves cocaine, hookers, a crime spree, an unfortunate night at a Thai brothel, cocaine, a stolen pickup, a Canadian gigalo that goes by “Mr. Mountie”, and cocaine.

Q: Can I get a watch from China and sell it to my local pawn shop/on craiglist/to my idiot brother/anyone else?

A: You might be able to pass it off to someone else as the real thing to make money, but that would be a total dick move. We may be breaking international law here in ChinaTime, but we’re not fucking assholes.

Q: WTF is a [insert unknown watch term]?

A: This Q&A isn’t exhaustive, and there is a lot to know in the world of watches. I recommend spending some time in r/watches as well as r/reptime, but if I were you I’d be careful about even speaking about r/chinatime in r/watches, as I got banned for a week for doing that, because those guys are fucking touchy.

Q: I just got my first XXX! It looks great! I’m going to go to r/XXX and show it off!

A: Don’t get cute. If you have even the best Submariner you can get from the ranks of ChinaTime and try to show it off on r/Rolex then you’ll be banned faster than the Astros can cheat at baseball, and you’ll also bring unwanted attention onto our own little cheap-and-shiesty corner of the internet. Don’t do that shit.

Q: Can I buy a used watch from one of you dudes who seem to know what you’re doing?

A: Sure! We offer trades and sales here often, and “I’d like to buy a used XXX” aren’t uncommon, but chances are someone will have something you want that’s maybe even been improved, so feel it out.

Q: Wait, improved? You can make these less-sucky?

A: Absolutely. Do yourself a favor and get a basic watch repair kit from Amazon for like $15. You can use the tools for basic maintenance — such as resizing the bracelet or regulating the balance wheel. You can also use it if your 2813 breaks down and you’d rather replace it than buy a new one. It’s not that hard with the help of youtube.

Q: I tried to regulate it and I broke it! Fuck you!

A: It’s not my fault you’re a butterfingers. Order another $50 watch, you cheap-but-classy bastard.

Guide to Taobao
by u/kolt54321

Taobao is a website similar to eBay, DHgate, or AliExpress – but completely in Chinese. They don’t have too many cheaper built watches, but a plethora of replica clothes and, most importantly, watch parts.

For anyone people who want to buy a submariner rep, Wu and Jason are good (overpriced, but good) choices. But what if you have just a little bit of class, and want to try your hand at building your own watch? How about swapping a dial, or upgrading a 2813/21j movement to something like a Miyota 8215/Seagull ST16? What if r/SeikoMods is your spirit animal, but don’t want to dish out $300 for your watches or $10 for an extra set of hands?

Enter Taobao

I mean, let’s get it straight. The website can be a pain to use. Google Translate only gets you so far before you had enough of “new Baby” and “more Baby”. And there is no shipping option to the US.

So how do you ship to the US?

If you’re new to Taobao… it can be counterintuitive. You need an agent – a separate company who ships your items for you from their warehouse in China, to your address. And I’m really not a good person to ask questions to about this (let’s make believe I have no idea). All I’ll say is take a look – Wegobuy is a trusted agent over at FashionReps, and the guide linked above will get you through how to use them.

So, Cons:

  • Not intuitive

  • Not Wu or Jason

  • WGB’s currency rates aren’t the best. Look on that sub for freight forwarders if you’re brave enough.

  • Shipping can be expensive – watches aren’t inherently heavy, but to the US, it can be $25 for a single KG (think maybe 3 watches, more in parts if you omit the SS bracelets).

But, as for pros… there are prices here you wouldn’t imagine. Full 2813 or NH35 stainless steel cases for $7, dials and dials for under $3, and swarms of full sets of hands for $1 each. Working 2813’s for $6, NH35’s for $20, ST16’s for $13 or less.

Ever wanted a Wave of Kanagawa or Van Gogh watch build? How about a meteorite or mother of pearl watch face? Try getting that on eBay.

“Yeah, but how do I find this stuff?”

Hey look, a list!

Which Factories Make the Best Models

In an attempt to help our community, many users have helped cultivate this guide. This is only meant as a guide and all decisions about a specific model and subtle differences aren't discussed in detail here. The intent here is to help you if you're looking for a generalized consensus of "Who makes the best submariner?". As factories frequently change and close down, this list will be updated.

On a budget? See the guide of reps $250-$400.

Rolex

Model Family Model Number Movement Best Factory 2nd Best 3rd Best
Submariner 126610LN, 126610LV, 126619LB 3235 Clone VSF Clean ZF
2836 Asian GMF BP
Gold and two tone 3235 Clone VSF Clean ZF
2836 Asian GMF BP
124060, 114060 (no date) 3135/3235 Clone VSF Clean ZF
2836 Asian GMF BP
116610LN, 116610LV, 116619LB 3135 Clone VSF Clean ZF
2836 Asian GMF BP
16610LN & LV 2824 Asian TC v6 RAF
DiW Models (of all sorts) Clone DiW Factory
Daytona All Daytona Models 4130 Clone Clean BTF Noob
All Gold Daytona Models 4130 Clone Clean BTF Noob
DiW Daytonas 4130 Clone DiW Factory/Noob
GMT Master II Pepsi 126710 BLRO, 116710 BLRO 3285/3186 Clone Clean VSF GMF
Batman 126710 BLNR, 116710 BLNR 3285/3186 Clone Clean VSF ARF
116710LN (black) 3186 Clone Clean C+ Factory
Sprite VTNR 3285 Clone Clean GF GMF
Rootbeer 3285 Clone Clean GF GMF
126713GRNR (Black/Grey bezel) 3186 clone APF EWF OWF
DiW Models 3186 Clone DiW Factory/Noob
GMT Master II (vintage) 16710, 16750, 16700 Pepsi, etc 3186 Clone BPF
GMT Master 6542 Pepsi 2836 Asian RBF (might no longer be produced)
Explorer I 36mm 124270, 124723 (two tone) 3230 Clone GMF
2836 Asian GMF BPF
40mm 224270 3230 Clone BPF JVS
Explorer II 226570 White and Black Dial 3285 Clone GMF v5
216570 White and Black Dial (date window in wrong position) 3187 Clone GMF
Air-king 116900 Black Dial 3230 Clone GMF
2836 Asian GMF
126900 Black dial 3230 Clone GMF JVSF
Milgauss 116400 Blue dial 3131 Clone ARF DJF GMF
116400 Black Dial 2836 Asian DJF GMF
Label Noir Tourbillon Tourbillon JBF BPF
Yachtmaster 226659 42mm White and Yellow Gold 3235 Clone VSF Clean
116622 40mm 3135 Clone VSF Clean
126622 40mm 3235 Clone VSF Clean
116655 40mm 3135 Clone VSF Clean
126655 40mm 3235 Clone VSF Clean EWF
268622 37mm 3135 Clone ARF
226627 Titanium 42mm 3235 Clone EWF
Datejust 36 All models, best case shape, dial 3235 Clone Clean
All models, best movement & crystal 3235 Clone VSF
3135 Clone ARF
2824/2836 Asian GMF
Datejust 41 All models, best case shape 3235 Clone Clean
All models, best movement & crystal 3235 Clone VSF
All models, less pricey 2824/2836 Asian ZF GMF
DayDate 40mm models 2836 Asian GMF BPF
36mm models 2836 Asian BPF
Skydweller All Models, low beat (21600bph) Custom Noob v2
Datejust 28 All Models 2836 Asian GMF
Oyster Perpetual 36mm, most dial variants (NB: VSF movement has two crown positions instead of one) 3235 Clone VSF
36mm, all other dial variants not by VSF 3230 Clone GMF EWF
41mm models 3230 Clone GMF BPF
Seadweller 126600 3235 Clone VSF
126603 (gold) 3235 Clone VSF
Cellini Rose Gold Moonphase 2824 Asian Moon EWF KZF GMF
Time only All models 2824 Asian KZF
Dual Time Low Beat KZF

Patek Phillipe

Model Family Model Number/notes Movement Best Factory 2nd Best 3rd Best
Nautilus 5711 All Dial variants
Small date font, but clone mvmt 324 Clone 3KF
Best dial and OOTB 9015 Miyota PPF v5
DiW Variants 9015 Miyota DiWF
Iced Out (aka Diamonds) 9015 Miyota R8F DM v2
5811 Blue 324 Clone 3KF
5712 Moonphase Date 240 Clone PPF v2
5726 Annual Calendar 9015 Miyota PPF
5980 Chrono (no good rep though) 7750 Asian PPF TWF BPF
7010 Ladies 33mm 324 Clone 3KF
7118 Ladies 35mm 324 Clone 3KF
Aquanaut 5167 40mm 324 Clone 3KF
9015 Miyota ZF
5168 42mm Blue & Green 324 Clone 3KF
9015 Miyota ZF
5165 37mm 9015 Miyota ZF
5164 Travel Time (not a good rep) 9015 Miyota GRF v2
5067 35mm Quartz PPF
5968 Chronograph 7750 Asian OMF
Calatrava 5227 (best Calatrava model) 324 Clone 3KF
9015 Miyota ZF
5296 (also best Calatrava model) 9015 Miyota ZF
5077 Notre Dame & Bhutan Dial FLF
5088 FLF
5089 Azulejos enamel dial FLF
5119 TWF
5120 TWF
5123 TWF
5196 sub seconds AIF
5153 (good execution) 9015 Miyota ZF
6007 324 Clone 3KF
9015 Miyota ZF
7112 KGF
Grand Complications 4968 Ladies Moonphase KGF
5057 Cortina 9015 Miyota YSF
5205 Triple Calendar Moonphase 9015 Miyota GRF v2 KMF
5396 9015 Miyota ZF GRF v2
5524 Travel Time GRF v2
6102 Celestial Map Custom TZF

Audemars Piguet

Model Family Model Number/notes Movement Best Factory 2nd Best 3rd Best
Royal Oak 15500 41mm All dial variants 4302 Clone ZF APSF
15510 41mm All dial variants 4302 Clone APSF
15510 41mm All dial variants 4302 Clone ZF
15400 41mm All dial variants 3120 Clone ZF APSF
15410 41mm textured bracelet 3120 Clone APSF
15550 37mm - no good clones yet 9015 Miyota TWF IPF
15450 37mm 3120 Clone APSF IPF
15202 39mm All dial variants 9015 Miyota ZF XF (gone) BF
16202 39mm All dial variants 9015 Miyota ZF
67651 33mm Quartz JJF
Royal Oak Offshore 15703 & 15710 42mm All variants 3120 Clone ZF APSF
9015 Miyota ZF
15707 42mm Ceramic 3120 Clone APSF
15720 42mm All Variants 4302 Clone ZF APSF
67540 37mm 9015 Miyota Unknown Factory
26240 44mm Chrono 7750 Asian APF
Grand Complications Royal Oak Tourbillon Tourbillon R8F
Open Work Tourbillon Tourbillon R8F
26331 Chronograph 7750 Asian BPF OMF
26579 Perpetual Calendar 9015 Miyota APSF

Vacheron Constantin

Model Family Model Number/notes Movement Best Factory 2nd Best
Overseas 4500V All dial variants 9015 Miyota ZF/PPF
2000V Ultra-Thin 9015 Miyota XF (gone)
47040 All dial variants 9015 Miyota PPF
7900V GMT 9015 Miyota PZF
Fifty-Six 4600 Date Only 9015 Miyota ZF
Complete Calendar 9015 Miyota ZF MXF
Patrimony 85150 Traditionelle 9015 Miyota PPF
4010 Perpetual Calendar 9015 Miyota MXF
Other References Chronometre Royal 1907 MKS
Historique 86300 GSF

Richard Mille

Model Family Model Number/notes Movement Best Factory 2nd Best 3rd Best
RM011 KVF - thick but best decorated
RM035 BBR factory Sonic ZF
RM055 BBR factory ZF
RM027-01 YSF EURF
RM027-02 RMF
RM027-03 RMF
RM056 EURF
RM052 Skull 3KF JBF
RM012 KVF
RM68 RRF
RM010 RRF
RM07 RMF

Omega

Model Family Model Number/notes Movement Best Factory 2nd Best 3rd Best
Seamaster All models Clone VSF
2824 Asian ORF OMF
300 black ceramic 2824 Asian OMF
Aqua Terra Clone VSF
2824 Asian OMF
Aqua Terra GMT Clone VSF
No Time to Die 007 2824 Asian VSF OMF
Diver 300M Clone VSF
2824 Asian ZF OMF
Ultra Deep 6000M Clone VSF
Planet Ocean 39mm, 42mm, 45mm Clone VSF
Speedmaster Racing 7750 Asian HRF
Speedmaster 57 (not great) 7750 Asian OMF
Snoopy Asian Lemania OMF RMF OSF
Deville 33mm UVS F
33mm Dew Drop 3S F
36mm HRF
Prestige 39mm 2824 Asian ZF
Constellation 41mm Clone VSF

Cartier

Model Family Model Number/notes Movement Best Factory 2nd Best 3rd Best
Tank Louis Quartz DRF
Solo Small Quartz AF K11F
Solo Large 9015 Miyota AF F1F TWF
Must AF F1F K11F
Francaise 8848F
Santos 35mm steel GF/GOF BVF 3KF
35mm Two-tone/gold BVF 3KF
40mm Steel GF/GOF BVF 3KF
40mm Two-tone/gold BVF 3KF
Ballon Bleu 33mm & 36mm Quartz AF 3KF V6F
36mm 9015 Miyota AF V6F
41mm 9015 Miyota/2824 AF 3KF V6F
Panthere Secrete De Quartz GF/GOF BVF
Pasha 30mm Quartz AF
35mm 9019 Miyota 3KF

Tudor

Model Family Model Number/notes Movement Best Factory 2nd Best
Pelagos Titanium Black 2824 Asian XF ZF
Titanium Blue 2824 Asian XF ZF
Left Hand Diver (LHD) 2824 Asian XF
Black Bay Heritage 36 2824 Asian KRF v3
Pepsi GMT 2836 Asian GMT ZF
Two Tone GMT 2836 Asian GMT ZF
Heritage GMT 2836 Asian GMT ZF
Heritage Chronograph 7750 Asian unknown (TWF?)
41mm Diver 2824 Asian ZF
Heritage Diver 58 9015 Miyota ZF XF
Royal Day Date 2836 Asian V7F

Jaeger-LeCoultre

Model Family Model Number/notes Movement Best Factory 2nd Best
Master Ultra Thin Moonphase (5 stars on moonphase) 925 Clone ZF v2 IMF (Miyota 9015)
Moonphase (Lots of stars on moon) 925 Clone APSF IMF (Miyota 9015)
Date (at 6 o clock) 9015 Miyota IMF
Small Seconds 9015 Miyota ZF
Power Reserve Clone ZF
Perpetual Calendar 9015 Miyota TWF
Tourbillon Tourbillon RMSF
Reverso Tribute Duoface Small Seconds MGF
Polaris 9015 Miyota BLS
Rendezvous ZF APSF

Panerai

Model Family Model Number/notes Movement Best Factory 2nd Best 3rd Best
Luminor PAM 000 - Luminor Base Logo (44mm) N-series Noob V2.5 Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph Noob (Closed)
PAM 005 - Luminar Marina Logo (44mm) N-series Noob V2 / N-series H maker V2 Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph Noob (Closed)
PAM 026 - Luminor Marina Destro PVD (44mm) K-series Noob V3 Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph Noob (Closed)
PAM 029 - Luminor GMT (44mm) M-series Noob V2-improved Noob (Closed)
PAM 057 - Luminor Power Reserve Titanium (44mm) DSN
PAM 088 - Luminor GMT (44mm) O-series Noob Noob (Closed)
PAM 104 - Luminor Marina Automatic (44mm) O-series Noob Noob (Closed)
PAM 111 - Luminor Marina (44mm) N-series Noob V3 (and later -> current best : v11) Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) depending on factory options can be 21,600 or 18,000 vph Noob (Closed) XF HWF
PAM 112 - Luminor Base (44mm) M-N series Noob Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph Noob (Closed)
PAM 127 - Luminor 1950 "Fiddy" (47mm) Latest Noob Noob (Closed)
PAM 164 - Luminor Marina Automatic (44mm) O-series Noob Noob (Closed)
PAM 176 - Luminor Base Titanium (44mm) M-N series Noob V3 Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph Noob (Closed)
PAM 177 - Luminor Marina Titanium (44mm) N-P series Noob Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph Noob (Closed)
PAM 187 - Luminor Submersible Chorno 1000m (47mm) Noob 7753 Noob (Closed)
PAM 217 - Luminor Marina Militare 1950 Destro "Fiddy" (47mm) 2012 Noob Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph Noob (Closed)
PAM 243 - Luminor 1950 Submersible (44mm) M-series Noob V2 Noob (Closed)
PAM 297 - Luminor GMT (44mm) O-series Noob Noob (Closed)
PAM 299 - Luminor Marina Automatic (K-series) (44mm) O- series Noob Noob (Closed)
PAM 318 - Luminor Marina Logo (44mm) L-series Noob Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph Noob (Closed)
PAM 356 - Luminor Chrono Daylight (44mm) O-series Noob 7753 Noob (Closed)
PAM 364 - Luminor Submersible 1950 Titanium (47mm) P-series Noob Noob (Closed)
PAM 390 - Luminor Boutique Edition (44mm) N-series Noob Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph Noob (Closed)
PAM 411 to 420 - Luminor Marina Boutiques Special Edition (44mm) KW/V6F Seagul ST3600 (ETA 6497 clone) 21,600 vph V6F/VSF
PAM 432 to 434 - Luminor Marina Boutiques Special Edition (44mm) H Maker
PAM 441 - Luminor GMT VSF V2 VSF
PAM 508 - Luminor 1950 Submerislbe Ceramica (47mm) KW-V6Fac Ceramic decorated A7750 Inverted KP9000 // P-KW-V6Fac Ceramic decorated Seagull NON-inverted KP9000-Seagull V2 V6F/VSF
PAM 569 - Luminor 1950 Submersible Dextro Titanium (47mm) KW-V6F Q-series Seagull Non-Inverted KWP9000-Seagull V2 V6F/VSF
Radiomir PAM 288 - Radiomir Chronograph (45mm) K-series H maker
PAM 292 - Radiomir Black Seal (45mm) J-series Noob Noob (Closed)
PAM 346 - Radiomir Titanio (45mm) KW/V6F V6F/VSF
Submersible PAM 187 - Luminor Submersible Chorno 1000m (47mm) Noob 7753 Noob (Closed)
PAM 243 - Luminor 1950 Submersible (44mm) M-series Noob V2 Noob (Closed)
PAM 364 - Luminor Submersible 1950 Titanium (47mm) P-series Noob Noob (Closed)
PAM 569 - Luminor 1950 Submersible Dextro Titanium (47mm) KW-V6F Q-series Seagull Non-Inverted KWP9000-Seagull V2 V6F/VSF

Breitling

Model Family Model Number/notes Movement Best Factory 2nd Best
Avenger Breitling Avenger II GMT GF/GOF (first batch with correct DW, includes the polished SS and the blacksteel / DLC) infos here GF/GOF
SuperOcean Breitling SuperOcean Abyss
Breitling SuperOcean Abyss Chrono Noob
Breitling SuperOcean Heritage Black Noob V2 (not available on TD anymore) GF/GOF OF
Breitling SuperOcean II 44mm (Noob) (black only) Noob (Closed)
Navitimer Breitling Navitimer 1 41mm - V7F (blue is best, then black/white) V7F/VSF
Transocean Breitling Transocean Day Date Blue - V7F V7F/VSF
Chronomat
Premier

IWC Schaffhausen

Model Family Model Number/notes Movement Best Factory 2nd Best 3rd Best
Big Pilot's / Pilot's IWC Big Pilot 5009-01 ZF
IWC 3878 Spitfire V6F/VSF
Most pilot dial variants 40mm Miyota 9015 ZF
Asian 2892 M+F
IWC 3777-01 Asian 7750 ZF
Big Pilot Tourbillon Tourbillon JBF
40mm Pilot Bronze Miyota 9015 MKS
Pilot Chrono Asian 7750 ZF V6SF
Da Vinci IWC Da Vinci TW
Portofino IWC Portofino AF V7F
IWC Portofino "150 years anniversary" V7F
Portugieser Chrono, all dial variants Modified 7750 ZF AZF YLF
Chrono Yacht with date, all variants Asian 7750 ZF APF
Small Seconds Custom ZF
Tourbillon Tourbillon TC F
Perpetual Calendar Custom 9015 APSF
Annual Calendar Custom ZF AZF YLF
7 Days Custom ZF
Aquatimer Chrono Asian 7750 V6SF
IW3290 Date only Asian 2892 V6SF
Automatic Asian 2892 V6SF
Ingenieur Vintage model Miyota 9015 AIF
Carbon Miyota 9015 CF

Source

The 'Not Worth Buying In Gen' (NWBIG) Guide

If you decide to buy one of these watches because it is in this list, please always take the time to understand WHY it's in the list, check reviews, make sure you understand what you're buying.

Note that if there are several super reps of the same model and unless both are awesome quality, only the best one will be listed here.

Some watches are discontinued (can only be found in p2p).

Commonly accepted as Super Reps NWBIGs

Brand Model Factory Version
Audemars Piguet ROO Diver JF 10 15703 JF
Blancpain Fifty Fathoms (black) Noob V1
Fifty Fathoms (black) ZF
Breitling Avenger II GMT GF GF
SuperOcean Abyss
SuperOcean Abyss Chrono Noob Noob
SuperOcean Heritage Black Noob V2 Noob
SuperOcean II 44mm (black only) Noob
Transocean Day Date Blue - V7F V7F
Navitimer 1 41mm - V7F V7F
Bvlgari Diagono Magnesium GF, last version GF
Cartier Santos XL V6 V6
Ballon Bleu 42mm, V6F V4 V6 V4
Ballon Bleu Pink Dial 33m, AF (CAL.076) AF
Tank Solo W5200025 RG AF AF
Franck Muller Casablanca Automatique 8880 GF
Hublot Big Bang V6(F) "V6.5" SS V6
IWC 3777-01 ZF
3878 Spitfire V6F V6
Big Pilot 5009-01 ZF ZF
Laureus Sport Ingenieur 2824 Noob Noob
Da Vinci by TW TW
Portofino AF AF
Portofino "150 years anniversary" blue dial (maybe others too) V7F
Jaeger-LeCoultre Diver Master Compressor Noob Noob
Montblanc Timewalker Chrono - Noob A7753 Noob
Panerai PAM 000 - Luminor Base Logo (44mm) N-series Noob V2.5 Noob V2.5
PAM 005 - Luminar Marina Logo (44mm) N-series Noob V2 / N-series H maker V2 Noob V2 / V2
PAM 026 - Luminor Marina Destro PVD (44mm) K-series Noob V3 Noob V3
PAM 029 - Luminor GMT (44mm) M-series Noob V2-improved Noob V2-improved
PAM 057 - Luminor Power Reserve Titanium (44mm) DSN DSN
PAM 087 - H maker F-series w/ A-7750 H maker F-series w/ A-7750
PAM 088 - Luminor GMT (44mm) O-series Noob Noob O-series
PAM 104 - Luminor Marina Automatic (44mm) O-series Noob Noob O-series
PAM 111 - Luminor Marina (44mm) N-series Noob V3 (and later -> current best : v11) Noob V3 / v11
PAM 112 - Luminor Base (44mm) M-N series Noob Noob M-N series
PAM 127 - Luminor 1950 "Fiddy" (47mm) Latest Noob Noob Latest
PAM 164 - Luminor Marina Automatic (44mm) O-series Noob Noob O-series
PAM 176 - Luminor Base Titanium (44mm) M-N series Noob V3 Noob M-N series V3
PAM 177 - Luminor Marina Titanium (44mm) N-P series Noob Noob N-P series
PAM 187 - Luminor Submersible Chorno 1000m (47mm) Noob 7753 Noob 7753
PAM 217 - Luminor Marina Militare 1950 Destro "Fiddy" (47mm) 2012 Noob Noob 2012
PAM 243 - Luminor 1950 Submersible (44mm) M-series Noob V2 Noob V2
PAM 285 - K-series KW/V6Fac with A7750 decorated like OPIII) KW/V6Fac A7750 decorated
PAM 288 - Radiomir Chronograph (45mm) K-series H maker H maker K-series
PAM 292 - Radiomir Black Seal (45mm) J-series Noob Noob J-series
PAM 297 - Luminor GMT (44mm) O-series Noob Noob O-series
PAM 299 - Luminor Marina Automatic (K-series) (44mm) O-series Noob Noob O-series
PAM 318 - Luminor Marina Logo (44mm) L-series Noob Noob L-series
PAM 346 - Radiomir Titanio (45mm) KW/V6F KW/V6F
PAM 356 - Luminor Chrono Daylight (44mm) O-series Noob 7753 Noob O-series 7753
PAM 364 - Luminor Submersible 1950 Titanium (47mm) P-series Noob Noob P-series
PAM 390 - Luminor Boutique Edition (44mm) N-series Noob Noob N-series
PAM 411 to 420 - Luminor Marina Boutiques Special Edition (44mm) KW/V6F KW/V6F Special Edition
PAM 432 to 434 - Luminor Marina Boutiques Special Edition (44mm) H Maker H Maker Special Edition
PAM 441 - Luminor GMT VSF V2 VSF V2
PAM 508 - Luminor 1950 Submerislbe Ceramica (47mm) KW-V6Fac Ceramic decorated A7750 Inverted KP9000 // P-KW-V6Fac Ceramic decorated Seagull NON-inverted KP9000-Seagull V2 KW-V6Fac / P-KW-V6Fac A7750 / Seagull V2
PAM 569 - Luminor 1950 Submersible Dextro Titanium (47mm) KW-V6F Q-series Seagull Non-Inverted KWP9000-Seagull V2 KW-V6F Seagull V2
PAM 571 - ZFac P-series P.9000 decorated A7750 NON-inverted Improved ZP9000-V2.5 // KW-V6Fac P-series P.9000 decorated A7750 Inverted KP9000-V2. KW-V6Fac P-series P.9000 decorated Seagull NON-inverted K9000-SeagullV2. ZFac / KW-V6Fac / K9000-SeagullV2 P.9000 decorated A7750 / P.9000 decorated Seagull
PAM 607 - KW-V6Fac P-series Ceramic decorated A7750 NON-inverted KP9000-V2) The most interesting version for A7750 lovers. // KW-V6Fac P-series Ceramic decorated KP9000-Seagull V2 NON-inverted The most interesting version for Seagull lovers KW-V6Fac A7750 / Seagull V2
Rolex 114300, 39mm, Grape and Grey dial JF (now ARF, service is recommended) JF / ARF
Sub 16610 TC TC
TW Best/WM9 (Sub/Bluesy/DD) TW Best / WM9 Sub / Bluesy / DD
116900 AIR-KING GMF & BP (last versions) GMF & BP Last versions
Seven Friday P series (P1-1, P3-1) V6F
V series (V2-1) V6F
M series (not the M2-2 one) V6F
Tag Heuer Aquaracer 300 (White Dial on Ronda with SS bracelet)
Aquaracer Calibre 5 SS on Rubber - SW200
Tudor Black Bay Red 2016 ZF (last shield version) ZF Last shield version
Heritage Ranger SS S Factory S Factory
Black Pelagos V6F/XF V2/3/4 V6F/XF V2/3/4
Blue Pelagos V6F/XF V2/3/4 V6F/XF V2/3/4


Commonly accepted as First Class++ NWBIGs
These are Super Reps on the wrist, minor tell only on the open caseback or a missing function so unless you take it off, show it to an expert and give him a few minutes for close inspection, these ARE CONSIDERED SUPER REPS

Brand Model Factory Version
Panerai PAM 438 - VSF V2 VSF V2
PAM 687 - Acciaio Brevettato SF SF
Longines Master Collection LGF Top Edition LGF Top Edition
Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean 600m LMPO Noob V5 Noob V5
Seamaster Diver 300M 2019 Real Ceramic Case VSF (v1 only unless you get a fixed version) VSF v1 / fixed version
Patek Philippe Calatrava 5296R RG/LE ZF with MY9015 Mod (WG could be too, need feedback) ZF / WG MY9015 Mod / WG?
Calatrava 5296G SS ZF White Sector Dial/Blue Hands ZF White Sector Dial


Under debate / No Consensus yet
Likely Super Reps but needs more feedback, definitely FIRST CLASS NWBIGs

Brand Model Factory Version
Cartier Ballon Bleu 28 and 33mm V6F
Santos 100 V6F (Black Dial, Titanium Ultimate Swiss SW) V6F Black Dial, Titanium Ultimate Swiss SW
Ronde Croisiere WSRN0002 GP GP
W5200025 ZF ZF
Chanel J12 38 mm - FR Factory FR Factory
IWC 501902 Top Gun Miramar ZF ZF
IW388002 V6F V6F
IW327010 MARK XVIII by V7 Factory V7 Factory
Big Pilot IW502001 Real Ceramic ZF V2 (waiting for new batch, short minute hand issue) ZF V2 (waiting for new batch)
Longines La Grande Classique SS 37mm JF JF
Avigation Bigeye ZX ZX
Omega Aqua Terra 8500 Clone - VSF VSF
AT Master Co-Axial 8900 - VSF VSF
De Ville SS RXW A2892 RXW A2892
De Ville SS GPF V2 GPF V2
Tudor Heritage Ranger V6F V6F
TAG Heuer Aquaracer Special Edition Premier League GS
Zenith Pilot Extra Special 20 - Black dial (V6F > ZF) V6F / ZF Black dial (V6F > ZF)

FIRST CLASS NWBIGs

Brand Model Factory Version
Audemars Piguet 15703 ZF ZF
15500 Black and Blue - ZF & APS ZF / APS Black and Blue
Bell & Ross 03-92 ZF (not the Golden Heritage one that has a very bad Dial) ZF Not the Golden Heritage
03-92 Horolum Watch Archive Custom
03-93 GMT Watch Archive Custom
Blancpain Fifty Fathoms (Noob V2) Noob V2
Breitling Navitimer World 46mm GMT (black only) BP BP
Avenger Blackbird (GF/ GF V2 - GOF/GOF V2) GF / GF V2 (GOF/GOF V2)
Cartier W6701011 ZF (really subtle difference on DW and window) ZF Really subtle difference
Franck Muller Master Square GF GF
Hublot Classic Fusion 42mm JJF black dial (V2) - Back is wrong and screws are randomly falling JJF V2
IWC Portofino White Dial V5 MKF MKF
Portofino "150 years anniversary" white dial MKF MKF
Mark XVII Le Petit Prince MKF MKF Le Petit Prince
Mark XVII MKF MKF
Portuguese 7 days ZF (last version) ZF Last version
Black 3714 - ZF V3 (slim movement) ZF V3 Slim movement
Jaeger-LeCoultre Master-Ultrathin Moonphase ZF (black dial, possibly the others too, moon & back / clasp are little off) ZF Black dial, moon & back issues
Montblanc Heritage Spirit M Factory M Factory
Omega Seamaster 300 Spectre VSF VSF
Seamaster Diver 300M 2018 VSF V2 VSF V2
Seamaster Planet Ocean 600m 42 and 45mm (CrPO) Noob Noob 42mm and 45mm
Seamaster Planet Ocean (45.5 / 42mm) CrPO (8500 Super Clone) VSF VSF 45.5mm / 42mm
Panerai PAM 382 - VSF V2 (small issue with the font on the crown guard) VSF V2 Small font issue
Patek Philippe Calatrava 6007A ZF ZF
Rolex DateJust 41 by VSF / ARF VSF / ARF
Explorer (214270) SH3135 V2 (JF) JF
Day Date 18239 TW Best/WM9 TW Best / WM9
Daytona 116500 (Asia 4130 Mod) White/Stk - Noob Noob White/Stk
Daytona 116520 (Asia 4130 Mod) - Noob Noob
Submariner 116610LN ZZF v2 ZZF v2
Submariner No Date ZZF v3 ZZF v3
Submariner 116610 Date VSF (GET THIS ONE, might even be Super Rep once Rehaut is fixed) VSF Rehaut issue
Sea Dweller 4000 (116660) ARF 904L Steel SH3135 ARF 904L Steel SH3135
Sea Dweller 4000 (116600) Noob V2 Noob V2
Sea Dweller 2017 Baselworld 126600 904L ARF & Noob (latest versions) ARF / Noob
Yacht-Master Rhodium Noob 904L Steel SA3135/VR3135 Noob Rhodium
Tag Heuer Carrera calibre 1887 V6F - Ceramic Bezel Black Dial on SS V6F Ceramic Bezel
Tudor LHD Pelagos - XF XF LHD Pelagos
Black Pelagos - ZF V2/V3 ZF V2 / V3


Under review (likely to be FIRST CLASS, some could be Super Reps but need more feedback)

Brand Model Factory Version
Audemars Piguet XF V2 FC Diver 15706 XF V2 FC Diver
Breitling SuperOcean SeaWolf H-factory v2 H-factory V2
Superocean Heritage II 42mm - GF/GOF V2 (wrong pearl, font too bold, date font) GF/GOF V2
Concord C1 - H Factory H Factory
Cartier Panthère Secrete DJ
Tank Solo W5200025 RG AF 1:1 RG AF 1:1
IWC Big Pilot 5009-12 ZF ZF
Big Pilot 5009-16 ZF ZF
5009-08 LPP ZF V2 ZF V2
Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean GMT 600m
De Ville SS MKS MKS
Planet Ocean 600m GMT (Black/Orange) VSF 8605 VSF 8605
Panerai PAM 616 - CarboTech Submersible VSF A7750 VSF A7750
PAM 424 V2 California Dial Super Clone P.3000 ZF ZF V2
Rolex Sea Dweller Deepsea (DBlue) Noob V7 Noob V7 DBlue
Date-Just 116234 ARF ARF
Explorer II 42mm 216570 Noob (Correct Hand Stack) Noob Correct Hand Stack
SevenFriday P2B/03-W ‘Woody’ NFC V6F V6F
Tudor Heritage Black Bay Bronze Blue XF XF
Blue Heritage Black Bay (Bucherer) XF XF
Vacheron Constantin Overseas White JJF MY9015 Mod (need feedback on movement noise and cross engraving thickness on the back) JJF MY9015 Mod, feedback needed
Zenith Extra Special Bronze Edition V6F/KW V6F/KW

NOT ACCEPTED as NWBIGs/Super Reps (naked eye instant tell(s)/waiting for update)

Brand Model Factory Version
Tudor BB Red Rose Edition ZF ZF V4/V5
Blancpain Villeret 6654 SS (with complication) OMF OMF With complication
Glashutte Senator Sixties - GF GF
Rolex Celini MKF MKF
Tudor Black Bay GMT Baselworld 2018 ZF ZF
Patek Philippe Nautilus 5711 PPF White PPF White

Source

What to look for in a Replica Watch Quality Check (QC)

You've made an order and the dealer has sent you an album of your watch and asked if you accept.

This guide covers what you should pay attention to when RL (Red Lighting/Rejection) or GL (Green Light/Approving) a watch.

Index alignment

Refers to the alignment of the hour markers or numerals on the watch dial. The index alignment is essential for the overall aesthetics and functionality of the watch.

You can check the index alignment of your watch during the PSP by having your seller send you a clear, straight on shot of the face of the watch. You'll then take that image and upload it to this site: https://watchqc.com There you can use the tools to look at the alignment and make sure it doesnt have a lazy eye.

Now, don't get your fing panties in a bunch if you find shit is misaligned. First make sure you're using the tool correctly. You also want to ensure that your PSP isn't taken at any kind of weird angle. This is one of the many reasons why the TD list is so crucial, they are accustomed to providing the right photos, and so all you have to do is stick it in that link.

Index alignment for a Rolex Lady's Datejust 31 with diamond markers, the watchQC tool should hit THE SAME POINT on the watch in the middle of the diamond. You will see in the photo's I provided in accuracy below. Note that there is a difference between consistency and accuracy:

  • Accuracy: Accuracy refers to how close a measured value or information is to the true or correct value. Accuracy would be each spoke on the assessment tool hitting the middle of the diamond.
  • Consistency: Consistency refers to the degree of uniformity, stability, or repeatability of results or measurements when performed under the same conditions. In this case, each spoke of the assessment tool touching the same points on the watch.

You'll see in the photos of my rep, that it is consistent, but not accurate. That's cus im fucking lazy and can't hold the watch straight. You want to make note of the CONSISTENCY when using the tool if you have a photo like mine, not the accuracy. Ideally both however.

Dial Printing

Refers to the various markings, text, numerals, and decorative elements to the watch dial. The dial is the flat or slightly curved surface of the watch face where the time is displayed. Common elements you may find on a watch dial:

  • Hour Markers/Minute Markers/Brand Name/Logo
  • Luminous Material: make the watch readable in low-light conditions. (something that shit watches can fuck up if the chemical isn't applied properly, so your watch might look like shit even in the dark)
  • Subdials: In watches with additional complications like chronographs (stopwatch function) or other features, small subdials may be included on the main dial.
  • Tachymeter/Telemeter/Other Scales: Some watches have specialized scales printed on the outer edge or inner bezel of the dial for specific purposes, such as measuring speed (tachymeter) or distance (telemeter).

Dial Printing for a Rolex Lady's Datejust 31with diamond markers. This is somewhat straight forward and also really annoying and complex. Simply put just compare a close up of your Rep with the Authentic online, ideally a photo of the authentic from a watch forum. You'll want to look at the following:

  • Diamond Hour Markers: The dial will feature diamond hour markers at each hour position
  • Date Window: Datejust models include a date window at the 3 o'clock position, allowing you to see the current date. More on this in the Date Wheel alignment section.
  • Rolex Crown Logo: The Rolex crown logo is present in place of the 12 o'clock position.
  • "ROLEX" Brand Name: The brand name "ROLEX" is printed below the 12 o'clock position, and below that "oyster perpetual datejust"
  • Above the 6 o'clock position will be "superlative chronometer officially certified"
  • Below the 6 o'clock position will be "Swiss made" with a Rolex image between the words
  • Model/Collection Name: Most Rollies will have an engraving that is seen on the rim underneath the crystal face. It will say ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX until the 6 o'clock position and then it will be the serial number. you can see what I'm talking about HERE
  • Finally any Rolex made after 2002 will have a very very faint etching on the crystal. It is a small crown emblem etched at the 6 o'clock position on the inside surface of the crystal. It's really hard to see and I saw it first on my rep before I could find it on my auth. Note that an auth isn't going to be all flashy about it, its def super hard to find, the rep on the other hand, may or may not have it but if it does the fainter, more difficult to spot the better. read more about it HERE

This gets complicated because I cannot find the EXACT measurements of the above anywhere, so if you want to get freakishly technical about it- call your psychiatrist. Other than that just compare the two faces of the watch side by side as images. Try and look for the size and spacing of the letters, if it's printed cleanly, if it's spelled "Bolex".

Fun fact, "kerning" is a typographic term used in graphic design and typesetting to refer to the adjustment of the space between individual characters or letters in a piece of text. It is specifically focused on adjusting the space between two adjacent characters to achieve better visual harmony and improve the overall appearance of the text.

~cHeCk YoR kErrnnINGg~

Date Wheel alignment/printing

Also known as Date Disc alignment or Date Printing, this is a rotating disc inside the watch movement that displays the current date through a small window (date window) on the watch dial. Date Wheel alignment or printing refers to the proper positioning and centering of the numerical or numeral indicators on the Date Wheel to ensure that the date is correctly displayed in the date window. Watch manufacturers use different techniques and technologies to achieve accurate Date Wheel alignment during the manufacturing process.

Misaligned Date Wheels can lead to various issues, such as:

  • Partially hidden date: If the Date Wheel is misaligned, the date numerals may not fully appear through the date window, making it difficult to read the complete date.
  • Overlapping or misshapen numerals: Improper alignment can cause date numerals to overlap or appear distorted, affecting readability.
  • Incorrect date display: In some cases, a misaligned Date Wheel may cause the date to jump or change slightly before or after midnight, leading to an inaccurate display.

Date Wheel alignment/printing for a Rolex Lady's Datejust 31: In the case of Rolex's the cyclops lens is the specific name for it's date window (small, circular piece of magnifying material, typically made of sapphire crystal, which is placed directly above the date aperture at the 3 o'clock position on the watch dial.) The primary function of the cyclops is to enhance date legibility, so you know if you're late and carrying your idiot boyfriends child. It enlarges the date numeral by around 2.5 times, making it more prominent and clearer for the wearer. This is usually what is a dead give away, as it's hard to reproduce. Further information HERE

Also pretty straight forward and annoyingly technical. Off the bat I can tell that the number within the date wheel sits a little too low, it's also slightly less visible and thus smaller than my Auth. This is due to the typeface being slightly smaller and something is a little off with the cyclops lens. To assess this detail on your watch, you're going to need someone who is trained to QC the watch to look at it or look at examples.

It is difficult because in photographs it's hard to determine if it's the right size. There are things that someone can tell you to look for, but fuck if I know the lettering has been 2.5X.

However in person and especially next to an authentic- mine is obviously more difficult to read.

Hand Alignment

Refers to the correct positioning and alignment of the watch hands (hour, minute, and second hands) on the watch dial.

  1. Hour Hand Alignment: The hour hand should be precisely aligned with the hour markers on the dial. It should point directly at the respective hour markers without any misalignment or deviation. If the hour hand is misaligned, it can lead to difficulties in reading the time accurately.
  2. Minute Hand Alignment: The minute hand should be aligned with the minute markers on the dial. It should point directly at the minute markers and move smoothly without any catching or rubbing against other elements on the watch dial.
  3. Second Hand Alignment: The second hand, if present in the watch, should move smoothly and align accurately with the second markers or indices on the dial. It should sweep around the dial in a manner that resembles the "movement" of your watch.
  4. Centering: Hand alignment also involves ensuring that all three hands are properly centered on their respective axes or pivots. They should be balanced and evenly spaced around the central axis of the watch.

Hand Alignment for a Rolex Lady's Datejust 31: Basically the same as any watch and whats written above. You are looking to see if your shit ticks right. With the diamond index's this becomes a little irrelevant since there aren't any markers to check the alignment, but you can still assess the hands to make sure nothing is wonky.

Bezel

A bezel is a functional and decorative component that surrounds the watch crystal (glass face) and holds it securely in place. The bezel is typically located on the top of the watch case, surrounding the face. Bezels can be made from various materials, such as stainless steel, gold, ceramic, precious stones. Depending on the watch type, there are different types of bezels, each serving unique purposes:

  • Protective Bezel: Many watches have a protective bezel that covers and secures the watch crystal. This bezel prevents the crystal from being scratched or damaged due to everyday wear and tear.
  • Rotating Bezel: Some sports and diving watches feature a rotating bezel, usually with minute markings or a dive scale. This bezel can be rotated unidirectionally to measure elapsed time or to keep track of remaining time during an activity.
  • Tachymeter Bezel: Certain chronograph watches have a tachymeter bezel. This bezel is marked with a scale that allows the wearer to measure speed based on the time it takes to travel a known distance.
  • Countdown Bezel: Some watches designed for specific sports or activities have a countdown bezel. It allows the wearer to set a specific time duration and count down to zero.
  • GMT Bezel: Watches with GMT (Greenwich Mean Time) or multiple time zone functions might have a bezel with 24-hour markings. This bezel assists in tracking the time in different time zones.
  • ✨Decorative Bezel✨: In luxury and fashion watches, the bezel may serve a purely decorative purpose. It can be adorned with precious stones, diamonds, or intricate designs to enhance the watch's aesthetics.

Bezel for a Rolex Lady's Datejust 31: A bezel for the Datejust can be either fluted or smooth. I personally think the smooth bezel is the ugliest thing I've ever seen, but who I am to inform you that you're making a terrible choice. There's also the iced out bezel- I'm indifferent.

However, worth noting- the fluted bezel only comes in solid gold. The smooth bezel has various options for the metal type. Even if you get an authentic steel Datejust 31 the fluted bezel will be in white gold.

I haven't been able to find much information on determining the quality of your bezel. you might have a bad bezel. I asked r/RepTime about bad bezels, no one has responded... Let me know if y'all have any more information on assessing bezels in general.

Solid End Links (SELs)

Refer to the solid metal links that connect the watch case to the watch bracelet or strap. They are a feature commonly found in high-quality and luxury watches. The end links are located at the lugs of the watch case, which are the protruding extensions on both sides of the case where the bracelet or strap attaches.

In watches with solid end links, the metal links are precisely fitted to the specific shape and curvature of the watch case lugs. This results in a seamless and precise connection between the case and the bracelet, providing a comfortable and secure fit on the wrist. Solid is referring to the fit of the first link being tightly secured without gaps or movement- not *solid*- like good- the way I initially interpreted it...

Solid End Links (SELs) for a Rolex Lady's Datejust 31: Honestly go to the accuracy assessment portion down below it will be a lot easier to see what I'm trying to explain than writing it out.

Timegrapher numbers

Also known as Timegrapher readings or measurements, are specific values obtained from a timegrapher, which is a specialized watch testing instrument used by watchmakers and technicians to assess the accuracy and performance of the time on the watch.

The timegrapher measures various aspects of a watch's movement and provides valuable information about its health and timekeeping capabilities. Some of the common timegrapher numbers include:

  • Rate (in seconds per day): The rate is the most crucial measurement and represents the watch's accuracy. It indicates how many seconds the watch gains or loses over a 24-hour period. A rate of 0 seconds per day means the watch is keeping perfect time, while positive values indicate it is running fast, and negative values mean it is running slow.
  • Amplitude (in degrees): Amplitude measures the arc through which the balance wheel swings. It reflects the health of the watch's movement and its ability to maintain accurate timekeeping. Proper amplitude ensures that the balance wheel has enough energy to perform its oscillations effectively.
  • Beat Error (in milliseconds): Beat error measures the consistency of the balance wheel's back-and-forth motion. A low beat error value indicates good stability, while higher values might suggest issues with the escapement.
  • Beat Rate (in beats per hour): Beat rate represents the frequency at which the balance wheel oscillates. For most mechanical watches, the standard beat rate is 28,800 or 21,600 beats per hour.
  • Lift Angle (in degrees): Lift angle is specific to watches with certain escapements (e.g., lever escapement). It measures the angle through which the escape wheel moves when releasing energy to the balance wheel.
  • Beat Number (in beats per hour): Beat number indicates the number of vibrations (beats) the watch's balance wheel makes in one hour.
  • Power Reserve (in hours): In some advanced timegraphers, the power reserve can be measured to determine how long the watch movement will run before needing to be wound again.

Timegrapher readings provide insights into the condition of a watch movement, helping watchmakers diagnose issues and regulate the watch for optimal accuracy. If you go to a legit TD they will take a picture of the timegrapher data so you know its gucci. Usually a rep can run -/+10 seconds off. Don't sweat it, even auths need to be serviced to be maintained, a Rolex typically has a precision about -/+ 2 seconds.

Values for the AUTHENTIC Rolex Datejust 31 are below. Some of the values listed above will be relative to the watch's health.

Amplitude 275 and 315 degrees
Beat Rate (BPH) 28.800 BPH
Lift Angle 52 degrees
Precision -2/+2 sec/day

Timegrapher numbers for a Rolex Lady's Datejust 31: In addition to the above, the movement of the watch is 3135. This is the most common Rolex movement fitted into multiple sports watches. It is a three hand with date function displaying hours, minutes, seconds and the date. It is widely regarded as one of the wonders of horology boosting 31 jewels, and a 50 hour power reserve. The 3135 movement began in 1988 and has been fitted into the following watches: Oyster Perpetual Date, Datejust, Submariner, Sea-Dweller, Yacht-Master and the Deep Sea Sea Dweller.

You're not going to get that. You can find something really close to that, but it's literally like wanting your flap to be identical to auth. go buy the real thing if you want the thing that makes the company renown.

Source

Guide to Quality Checking (QC) a Replica Watch

QC TOOL: https://watchqc.com/

Junk & Entry Tier QC guide

It needs to be pointed out that ChinaTime level sellers will do a number of things if asked for QC shots of a watch you’re interested in buying. None of which are done consistently by any of them, nor is there a regulated process.

This includes:

1. A quick view video of a watch you have requested, usually flipped around while being held to show different angles. This is usually one they happen to have on hand (sellers don’t hold on to stock as it’s too dangerous – they source per order)

2. A video they send to multiple buyers (often exactly the same video) of the same watch from the same batch.

3. Photos you’ve probably already seen before used of the watch on multiple different dhgate stores and can easily recognise. These are used by many sellers as they simply don’t have any other photos of that particular watch.

4. Some low quality phone photos of a couple angles. Usually taken when they have one around or have taken before to send QC pics to another buyer.

4. Photos or videos showing you the actual watch you are being sent just before it gets packaged up with your postage label. These are often done after you’ve ordered and paid and it’s about to be sent out.

The ChinaTime QC process is different to the QC process on r/RepTime where sellers show you the exact watch you have bought, allowing for feedback, RL (Red Lighting aka Not happy with quality so sending it back) or GL (Green Lighting aka I am happy with this watch so let’s fucking gooo).

ChinaTime level sellers shift a high volume of product in short timeframes.

Don’t expect a RepTime level QC process for your $80 shitter.

Higher Tier QC Guide

Before we jump into QC, I want to clarify some of my vernacular when discussing replica watches:

Flaw: A difference between a replica in its attempt to imitate the genuine watch (e.g. incorrect hand stack on a GMF BLRO Pepsi)

Defect: An error during manufacturing or assembly that deviates from the specified requirements (e.g. crooked indices on an ARF 114300)

Okay, now that we’ve got that out of the way, in order to understand what QC is, let’s start with what the QC process isn’t.

The QC process is not:

  • To compare how close the replica is to genuine
  • Window shopping
  • An opportunity to correct specific flaws or defects on a replica

QC is not an opportunity to compare how close the replica is to genuine

This should take place before QC during the research about which model to buy. All replicas have flaws. “Super reps” have flaws from genuine. Even genuine watches have flaws! It’s your responsibility as the purchaser to do your due diligence and find watch models from factories that have flaws that are tolerable to you. You should become intimately aware of the flaws of the models you are considering. The forums and this subreddit contain many images of actual watches people receive.

Use the search bar and get well acquainted with the model you plan on purchasing. This way when your QC pictures arrive you aren’t startled when the date font is too bold – looking at you ARF 126334, or some other well-known flaw compared to genuine. If you’re looking for near perfect, buy genuine. Buying a replica watch is a fun experience. Let it be.

QC is not window shopping

Trusted Dealers are running a business. Side note: I’m not exactly sure how the logistics of their business functions, but if a TD or other more knowledgeable person wants to chime in below it would be a happy learning experience for me and everyone else. The remainder of this entry will go on my assumptions as to how the business functions.

TD’s buy replica watches from the factories. They pay for the replicas out of the money you paid them for your order. This is why payment precedes QC pictures. Now they have invested in inventory that needs to be sold. Some inventory moves quicker than others due to popularity (SS 116610LN, AP ROO, etc.) so they probably have a continuous flow of demand for some of these watches, but they don’t really “stock” watches in a traditional sense and definitely not for less popular models.

They source each watch you order individually. When you decide to RL a watch you’re preventing them from selling stock that they’ve already used capital to purchase. Essentially, you’re frustrating their cash flow. They’re now stuck with a watch they need to wait for someone else to order before they can make their money back. This makes it difficult on the TD, harms their business, and may result in the TD refusing to sell you a different watch.

They also have to go and source another watch for you (consuming more capital and eating into their margin). It is my understanding that sometimes they can return a watch to the factories if it is defective, but this is where my knowledge of the business isn’t clear. Regardless, the best-case scenario for TD’s is returning a watch and spending a lot of time and effort sourcing another watch instead of fulfilling a new order (opportunity cost), and the worst case is being stuck with a watch that has nothing wrong with it and having to wait for a new order before getting paid for it. That’s a lose-lose scenario for the TD.

What is important to remember here is that the factories and TD’s aren’t in the best conditions, nor are they participating in legal activities and are under constant scrutiny from their respective governments and law enforcement agencies. Replica watch "factories" aren’t large buildings with assembly lines.

Typically they are small operations that can be easily moved or hidden from police/governments hunting for them. Factories and TD’s have a lot at stake doing business with us and we should ensure we properly acknowledge that and use their conditions as the context for how a replica watch gets in QC pictures. It’s quite a marvel all things considered. Caveat: I am well aware that TD’s sometimes try to hide very obvious manufacturing defects to move undesirable inventory, we’ll cover that more below. Be patient.

I’m not saying to never RL a watch. There are good reasons to do so that we’ll discuss below. I am saying that you should carefully consider the defect on the watch you are presented and decide for yourself if you can live with them. Remember that the images you’re seeing are close up of an object whose size is measured in millimeters. Many defects can’t be seen at wrist level or without close inspection. There is a good reason to carefully consider the decision to RL. QC is not a carousel of watches, rather it’s like a slot machine or a game of Russian roulette because the next one the TD can procure could have worse defects than the watch you RL’d.

I’ve never tried this, but If you RL the watch in your QC pictures I don’t think the TD will sell it to you if the RL’d watch ends up being better than the following watch. So there’s a risk with RL’ing. Keep in mind that manufacturing happens in batches and there is a chance that most of a batch has similar defects. You never know what you’re going to get. Think slot machine, not carousel. That’s part of the fun! Sometimes you hit it big and your rep doesn’t have any serious defects and looks flawless. Other times you’ve gotta swing the RL hammer, but only if absolutely necessary.

This segues well into our next topic.

QC is not an opportunity to correct specific flaws or defects on a replica

I see a lot of new people have a misunderstanding when reviewing their QC pictures that if they ask the TD to correct a specific flaw that it will be corrected. This is not the case. You either accept the watch presented or you RL and are presented with an entirely new watch. They can’t realign indices or center dates in a date window. Nor should they. Their business is simple: source the “genuine” replica watch you request and ensure it is shipped and delivered to you.

That’s it.

They make money sourcing and shipping watches. TD’s exist to protect us from a veritable ocean of scam sites that sell us DHgate watches for thousands of dollars. Buying through a TD means the watch you receive will be made by Noob, ARF, V6F, etc. and that you will receive it despite customs seizures.

They are not watch smiths.

They are not watchmakers.

They are not jewelers.

They are dealers.

Dealers that are trusted because they have a multitude of historical transactions and a reputation that they will deliver “authentic” replica watches from the factories they advertise.

Okay. Now that we’ve cleared up some common misconceptions with QC pictures, where did the concept come from? After doing some digging on RWI, the concept of QC photos was first introduced around 2009 by a previous TD that, from what I can tell, has since ceased operations. QC photos are an inconvenience for the dealer and replicas used to be sent without QC photos; however, in the years following their introduction we have become accustomed to them and now expect them. It benefits TD’s by giving customers a unique experience, for example, PureTime does waterproof testing in addition to photos.

That’s a bit of competitive differentiation in customer experience if waterproofing is of interest to you. It can also help the TD’s to avert negative interactions with their customers by allowing us to see what we will be receiving before actually receiving it. This practice is unlike any other eCommerce practice and I can’t think of another online transaction where I get a preview of the literal unit I will receive before buying except maybe automobiles. And even then, sometimes not. Hopefully, this helps you to understand that we should be grateful we receive QC pictures at all and to give credit where credit is due with the TD’s. There aren’t other eCommerce businesses that operate this way.

What is the purpose of QC? QC Photos are:

  • To ensure you will be receiving the correct factory and model of watch ordered
  • To find clear defects that do not meet your subjective standard

QC is to ensure you will be receiving the correct factory and model of watch ordered

This is important! If you ordered a ZZF 116610LN V2 it is important that you receive that model from that factory and not a Noob or ARF 116610LN because it will be difficult to make an exchange or other remediations due to the logistical nightmare that is the international business of counterfeit goods. You want the right watch delivered the first time. Sometimes there are mix-ups or errors and I suppose there could be a more nefarious motive, but that has never been my experience and would certainly be a huge outlier. TD’s are trusted for a reason.

That doesn’t make them perfect or free from making clerical errors given their working conditions and language barriers. If you aren’t sure you are receiving the correct model or factory, post it and ask! We love to help. If you ordered an ARF 116500 Panda, but are shown an ARF 116520 white dial, you’ll know to ask the TD to please present you with the correct model you requested. Please be courteous and respectful. I’m sure they’ll be happy to do so. Remember they still must go and return the incorrect watch if they can and go source the correct watch. Be patient.

QC is to find clear defects that do not meet your subjective standard

This is a tricky topic to address. You are looking to identify defects with the replica that aren’t up to your standard. You should be looking for things like crooked indices, alignment of bezel or dial elements like coronets or logos, missing lume, offset chrono hands, and other defects. Also check to see if there are any visible signs of cosmetic damage like scratches, scuffs, etc. on the case, bracelet, clasp, and other watch components.

Be aware that TD’s are dealers or salesmen. They want to sell watches, even ones with severe defects. I’ve seen TD’s move the watch hands to cover a crooked logo or hold the watch at strange angles to make alignment defects look less severe. You can request additional pictures with watch hands in different positions. You can ask for a straight-on photo. This is acceptable and should be done if you have suspicions. Be prepared to wait for additional pictures though. There shouldn’t be obstacles to you being able to see defects, but once you’ve identified defects what do you do then?

Now, here is the difficult part. What should you RL and what should you live with? For me, I air on the side of GL all the time. This means I look at QC pictures with the intent of GL'ing and then have to find something outlandish to shift my opinion. Excessive RL’ing can harm the livelihood of the TD’s and ultimately affect the price of replicas in general. I also have a realistic idea of the standard of quality I should expect from a replica before I place my order.

For a first time or inexperienced buyer, this may not be the case, especially if they haven’t done enough due diligence on the model they’re purchasing.

What do I RL? Indices that are egregiously crooked, date wheels that are excessively off-center making them difficult to read, etc. Essentially anything that will bother me to the point of not wearing the watch. This is very subjective and hopefully, your expectations will improve with experience. I highly recommend that before you make a purchase, find QC pictures of the watch you will be ordering and see what others have GL’d and RL’d. Focus primarily on the GL’s. You’ll see many slight defects that get approved. If your watch ends up having them, please GL.

You’ve seen the defects. You know they are present in other watches. Keep the replica economy going. Learn to love and accept these discrepancies. These small defects make the watch unique and many of them can be modded away if they wind up seriously bothering you (crooked indices replaced by genuine or modded dials, etc.) Look and see what experienced users RL. This will help you to establish good expectations and what justifies RL'ing a watch.

Conclusion

Ultimately, it is up to you. Remember, that our small high-quality replica economy depends on the integrity of both TD’s and buyers. Hopefully, this post has helped you understand the consequences of RL’ing and that you’ll put more effort into properly establishing your expectations through due diligence and research. I hope that you’ll give a higher level of consideration to RL’ing.

It isn’t a trivial matter for our TD’s even if it seems as trivial as a set of new pictures in our email inbox for us. Again, I’ll restate that I’m not against RL’ing. I just want people to RL responsibly with proper expectations and education behind their decision. I’m not encouraging you to buy defective products, just make sure you know the difference between defective products and acceptable ones; sometimes the line between the two is exceptionally thin. It’s up to us to preserve the integrity of our niche community because we could just as quickly destroy it.

Good hunting.

Most factories won’t take a watch back for a majority of the RL issues, so the dealer has only some choices.

  1. Order a replacement at dealer cost. Try to sell the RL watch to another.
  2. Try to fix the issue
  3. Refund the customer
  4. Swap for a different watch
  5. Argue with the factory for a replacement (requires lots of previous examples proving the problem is unique to that one watch. If this happens too many times factory may refuse to sell to that dealer

Source

How to Read a Timegrapher

So you’ve got the QC images or your brand new best replica but what about your timegrapher results?
Timegrapher reading

Presets

Beat Number

Frequency, the vibration of a movement. The number of balance wheel swings per hour or how many times the watch ticks per hour. This is a preset, depends on the watch you order.

14,400 bph = 4 beats per second

18,000 bph = 5 beats per second

21,600 bph = 6 beats per second

28,800 bph = 8 beats per second

etc

Lift Angle

The angle the balance passes through while interacting with the pallet fork. Important to be set correctly in order to calculate the Amplitude. This preset is per caliber specs.

Most modern watches have a lift angle of 50 – 52 degrees. Generally lift angles range from 44 to 58 degrees. Some other settings are present, for instance Gen co-axials angle is 30 degrees.

Results

Rate

How fast / slow the movement runs (in seconds per day)

great : +/- 5 s/d

acceptable : +/- 12 s/d

If higher / lower?

It is possible to adjust this yourself or ask your dealer to nudge it a bit.

Amplitude

The measure of the amount of rotation in the swing of the balance wheel, in either direction.

Amplitude is higher when a watch is lying flat and usually falls when the watch is in a vertical position, due to increased friction. Amplitude can also fall as the watch winds down and the mainspring delivers less power.

Amplitude is a good indicator of the movements health and if is too high or too low, or that changes too much in different positions, can indicate a problem with the movement.

great : 270-310

acceptable : 250-270

If higher / lower?

Ask for a different watch or have your watch serviced

Beat Error

The amount of time by which the duration of swing differs from one side to the other in the oscillation of a balance wheel. Generally speaking to get a beat error of zero, the roller jewel in the pallet fork must be perfectly centered.

great : 0.0-0.5 ms

acceptable : 0.6-1 ms

If higher?

Ask for a different watch or have your watch serviced.

* Please note that if you are reading your QC from the dealer, you will generally receive only the results of the watch lying flat. All the above recommended measurements are from that position. The measurements in other positions may vary.

Source

Watch-timegrapher-big-zero.jpg

Rate is the first number you see on the top left side of the display. This number describes how much time the watch is either gaining or losing per day. The great watches that has been tested and certified has a rate within +/-2s per day in 4-6 different orientations. For these rep movements and low-end Asian movements you can be pleased with +/-10s per day in the "dial up" orientation.

The second number is the amplitude. This number is how far the balance swings from its resting position, i.e the total swing angle of the spring. This number can vary quite greatly without to much impact on the time keeping and the number varies based on how far the mainspring is wound, the best way to test the amplitude is to wind the mainspring fully wait 1 hour and then test it. Most movements stay within 260-300º, with a lot of rep movements hitting higher than that.

A common misconception is that you want a super high amplitude.

While it's true that a high amplitude is an indication of a healthy watch, to high of an amplitude can cause damage to the escapement parts and wear it out faster or cause an issue known as "knocking" where the impulse pin swings to far and hits the pallet "in the back". (Graph showing knocking)

The third common number is the beat error. The beat error is the difference in time between the "tic" and the "toc" of the watch. This number in a genuine watch, even lower grade is most often 0.0ms. In a rep movement I believe you can be pleased with everything under 0.7-1.0ms. Bigger differences in the beat error can be a early indication of damage to the balance spring.

The last number is this lift angle. This number is a predetermined number which is based on the angle between when the impulse pin hits the pallet and when the pallet catches the next cog on the escape wheel.

Lift-angle.png

Another number that can be seen often in the QC pictures are 21,600 or 28,800. This number is the number of beats per hour or BPH. This equate to 6 or 8 beats per second, most common in alot of high end reps is 28,800.

The lines on the graph can help you get a visual representation of how the watch movement is behaving. The rate of the watch determines the angle of the lines, lines going "up" means the watch is gaining time and lines going "down" means the watch is losing time.

The beat error determines how far apart the two lines are, if the beat error is 0.00 you should only see one line on the graph.

How to set up your Manual Watch

File:How to Wind a Watch.mp4

WATCH WITHOUT DATE or WATCH WITH DATE, WITHOUT QUICKSET

The crown has 2 positions:

1. Normal position - wearing position

In this position the watch can be wound using the crown. Turn the crown forwards until you feel resistance - DO NOT OVERWIND THE MECHANISM. Winding the watch once a day should be enough to ensure the correct functioning of the watch. When the crown is positioned against the case this ensures that the watch is water resistant. Please note that must of Factories and TD do not guarantee the watch being waterproof or water resistant.

Make sure that when you handle the crown in any way the watch is in your hand, not on your wrist. This is because there is a possibility you bend or damage the crown tube and / or case of the watch, should you handle the crown when the watch is on your wrist.

2. Pulled out position - time (and date) setting

When the crown is pulled out, it can be used to set the time. The crown can be turned forwards and backwards. To set the date please keep moving the the crown forwards (clockwise) to the desired date.

WATCH WITH DATE QUICKSET

1. Normal position - wearing position

In this position the watch can be wound using the crown. Turn the crown forwards until you feel resistance - DO NOT OVERWIND THE MECHANISM. Winding the watch once a day should be enough to ensure the correct functioning of the watch. When the crown is positioned against the case this ensures that the watch is water resistant. Please note that must of Factories and TD do not guarantee the watch being waterproof or water resistant.

2. Pulled out once position - date setting

When the crown is in this position the crown can be turned upwards to change the date. When using the quickset function to change the date please make sure the time is first set to 6 o’clock. This is because around 12 o’clock the watch itself is mechanically changing the date. Should you try to change the date manually when the watch is using this function there is a chance you damage the mechanism. When the time is set at or around 6 o’clock this mechanism can not be damaged.

3. Pulled out twice position

Time setting When the crown is pulled out twice, it can be used to set the time. The crown can be turned forwards and backwards.

Chronograph Manual

Using a chronograph:

1. Your watch has 2 pushers. The top one, pusher A is usually used to start and stop the chronograph. The bottom pusher, pusher B, is used to reset the chronograph. The chronograph can be used as a stopwatch, for example to measure lap times. Note: never push both pushers simultaneously.

2. The second-hand of the chronograph is the long central hand on your watch. A watch with a chronograph usually has a small seconds hand in a separate sub- dial, for the time function of your watch. Please do not keep the chronograph running all the time, as this takes a lot of power reserve from the mechanism.

3. Usually a chronograph has 2 or 3 sub-dials / counters. One is used to show the seconds, this hand is always moving as it shows the seconds of the time, not the seconds elapsed when using the chronograph. The other two sub-dials are used to show the elapsed minutes and hours when using the chronograph. When the chronograph is not being used the hand of these sub-dials should be centered pointing towards 12 o’clock.

ROLEX OYSTER DAY-DATE, QUICKSET

To change the time or date, or to wind the watch by hand, you must fist unscrew the crown from the case, ‘hen pull it until the required position is reached. Always perform these operations with the watch in your hand and not on your wrist. When you are done, make sure the crown is Screwed down to the case again before you wear it.

Ucla8jha70n51.png
42nzdjha70n51.png

ROLEX OYSTER WITH DATE FUNCTION

To change the time or date, or to wind the watch by hand, you must first unscrew the crown from the case, then pull it until the required position is reached. Always perform these operations with the watch in your hand and not on your wrist. When you are done, make sure the crown is screwed down to the case again before you wear it.

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Od0xbjha70n51.png


List of Known Watch Factories

ZF: High quality factory for most non-Rolex watches. Overall a good factory with solid releases. Just starting to branch into AP and RM, and they are pretty good.

Noob / N Factory: NOW CLOSED :( Noob factory is probably the most famous factory among others, they started a very long time ago and really developing their piece of replica. Noob makes a decent submariner, but have a great Daytona with clone movement, and a good pepsi insert. Besides Rolex, Noob also developing some brands like some Planet Ocean Omega, Blancpain, some Audemars Piguet models, and some Panerai model. Recently (5/12/21) Noob was hit very hard in a raid so their models are on hold for ~6 months (rumor on timeline).

VSF/V6F/XF/HBB/KW: All fall under a common parent company, but VSF specializes in Omega and Rolex super-reps and Panerai, V6F does quite a bit of projects (though the name isn't used much nowadays) and XF focuses on Audemars Piguet but recently ventured into Vacheron Constantin. HBB does Roger Dubuis.

ARF/JF: JF is the brand name of AP reps. High quality, great detail, though ZF is showing them a run for their money these days. JF also makes middle-high tier Rolex watches among others. ARF is a division that focuses on high quality Rolex releases that focus on finishing. Rumor that JF is closing.

JVS: Newer factory as of 2021, takes inspiration from VSF and aims to release high quality Rolex releases.

ZZF/Clean: Quality releases recently for Rolex. Rebranded to Clean factory. Be aware of fake

PPF: Supposedly family of ZF, but focused on Patek. Has the best current Nautilus

BP/GMF: BP is one of the OG rep factories. Has reps of most brands and models, and are at an affordable price. GMF seems to be a higher end brand focusing on finish, but sourcing from similar places.

MK/MKS: Focuses on IWC, Patek and Omega releases, though they have branched into other brands too.

TF: Specializes in tourbillons (hence "T" F), but most are 42mm and kind of thick.

GF: Originally started focusing on German watches ("G"F), but have branched into many other Swiss brands like JLC and Cartier. Creates 'copy cat' models for a bit cheaper, and sometimes surprises with improved details

FK: Makes quite a few reps, most are not very good or just barely miss the mark for one specific reason. However, their Breguet 5177 v3 watch is superb!!! So do not underestimate any release of theirs.

JKF: Joker Factory

R Factory: Rolex

YLF: Connected to ZF, focuses on IWC

VRF: Specialized in the Rolex arena with an excellent sub, excellent new VR3135 movement, and gold wrapped subs too.

OMF: Focuses on middle tier quality and prices, but recently have high quality Omega releases

PF: Revolutionized the Nautilus market with the first thin Nautilus. However, they were recently outdone by PPF and 3K. Focused on Patek, but have other releases.

3K/BTF: clone Patek movement releases and excellent Daytona reps.

JJF: Focused on Vacheron and Patek releases, came out with the great Overseas rep. Rumor is they shut down though.

TTF: Higher end Entry tier quality watches.

GDF: Higher end Entry tier quality watches.

TWF: Taiwan Factory. Specialising in Cartier but with a number of other watches for low prices but decent quality.

Gold Factory: Mainly make Rolex reps

APS: Rolex & Audemars Piguet

8848F: Make a lot of Cartier watches

How to Identify Scammers & Avoid Scams

What can we do to prevent being scammed? And, whom exactly is responsible for preventing or at least reducing the potential of being scammed here?

Simply stated: It is up to each and everyone of us to conduct our own best due diligence to prevent being scammed prior to participating in any m2m sale.

Of course we know to research an item before making a purchase. The more we know, the better the experience.

Always commit yourself to finding out as much about the member posting the item for sale as possible.

The forum makes it rather simple to check out the selling members join date, along with his/her posting and sales history. Take time to read the type of comments the selling member makes in his/her post history. Look for any potential red flags, negative or derogatory comments. See if you can follow a previous sales post involving the seller whereas he/she was the actual buyer.

If you find any comments that appear to be misleading in any way, dig deeper:

  • What kind of buyer or seller have they been?
  • Is there a previous history of nuked sales, withdrawn sales?
  • Have they been repeatedly asked to clarify or provide documentation?
  • Did they fail to respond to specific questions?
  • Any history of hesitation or refusal to respond to a sales mod?
  • Is the seller using the correct sales form and have they completed it accurately and clearly?
  • Are they claiming to be selling the item for a friend ?
  • Is the seller keeping the sales post open after claiming it is sold?
  • Has the seller suddenly sent you a PM offering a special lower price , if you buy now or send payment via PayPal family and friends?
  • Does the seller appear to be posting several items for sale all at once?
  • Are they listing items for sell at considerably lower than average pricing?
  • Is the seller posting several sales in various m2m sales areas for gen items, replicas etc?
  • Does the seller react adversely to questions or comments concerning authenticity of the item for sale?
  • Do you get a feeling that something is off about the seller or the item for sale?

We all have an inner sense of intuition. If you have a gut feeling something is not quite right, dig deeper, ask more questions. If you are not satisfied with his/her answer – walk away. There will always be another great watch that you just have to have.

Remember, patience is a prime factor in this hobby.

Before you spend your first dollar in this hobby, ask yourself this question: Can I afford to lose my hard earned money?

If you feel in any way that you can’t afford a loss, then just don’t do it.

You are responsible for you. You are the only one responsible for your actions. The forum is not responsible for your decisions or the choices you make here, nor are the admin/mods, the TD’s, or anyone else, Just you. If you can’t take full responsibility for your own actions, decisions, you certainly can’t expect anyone else to.

The absolute most important thing after accepting responsible is to be prepared. Prepare yourself to avoid being scammed by educating yourself. Use the forum resources to educate yourself on every aspect of this hobby. Educate yourself to know the best factory, the pros and cons of each replica. Educate yourself on the genuine watch you like.

Familiarize yourself with the brand. Know what the gen looks like, feels like, it’s specifications, how it functions, the type of movement it has. How can you expect to find the most accurate replica if you don’t know all there is to know about the gen.

​​​​​​​Finally, make your own decisions based on your own research to spend your own money.

Each of us must be prepared to take the full responsibility of our actions.

Source

Wrist Watch Size Guide

Find the best watch size for your wrist. Use this guide to size up the watch to best suit your wrist width.

Here is a complete watch size table, including lug to lug distance, that will help you find the perfect watch for your wrist size.

Always remember: in any case, you don’t want the lugs to overhang the width of your wrist.

Factors That Affect the Subjective Watch Case SizeRemember: the case size is only a small portion of the watch size equation. Many other factors will change your perception of a watch size.

The Lug to Lug DistanceA really important aspect of a watch size is the lug to lug distance. This is almost as important (if not more) as the watch case size in itself.

The lug to lug distance is the distance between the lug (or tip) of the watch at the top of the watch head and the lug at the bottom of the watch head.>

The lug to lug distance should be as small as possible to work with your small wrist. Try to keep the watch head within the limits of your wrist width as much as possible.

The reason is simple: we want the watch head to fit within your wrist width.We don’t want it to stick out or overhang. It just doesn’t look good.

If you have small wrists, you might have a hard time finding watches that fit within your wrist width.

My wrists are so thin that most watches visually touch both ends of my wrist. There is just no way around this for me, given my tastes and budget. But I try to keep that lug to lug distance as short as possible.>

So, what’s a good lug to lug distance for your wrist?

The lug to lug distance of a watch will suit your wrist when it is 75 to 95% of your wrist width. The variation accounts for the different wrists shapes and personal preferences.

You see, some of us are blessed, some not so much.

The weird thing is that your wrist size (or circumference) does not relate directly to your wrist width.

If you have a flat wrist, you’re lucky. Most of the circumference of your wrist will serve as the flat area where your watch will sit, allowing for a larger lug to lug distance.

But if you have thicker or rounder wrists (or if your wrists are very small like mine) well, you’ll have to settle for smaller timepieces. Don’t fear, there are still plenty of great mens watches for small wrists.

(Again, to have an estimate of your wrist width (its flat surface), you can easily measure your wrist size in millimiters and divide its size by 3. And remember to check in the watch size guide table above what lug to lug distance will work on your wrist.)

Now, an interesting thing is that the lug to lug distance is not in direct proportion to a watch size. Some 41mm watches have ridiculously long lugs, with a 50mm lug to lug distance (I’m looking at you, Tudor Black Bay!).

Some are the exact opposite. A notable example is my beloved Citizen Promaster Nighthawk: 42mm in diameter for 46.5mm lug to lug distance only!>

So always try to know (or measure by yourself) the lug to lug distance before committing to buying a watch. And remember: a small watch doesn’t always have a short lug to lug distance.

The good thing is: the other way around is true too!

The Shape of the Lugs: Flat vs Curved

Something else to know about the lugs (even if it seems pretty obvious): some are almost flat, and some are more curved.

If you have smaller wrists, you want to get a watch with curved lugs as they will hug your wrist better, and not stick out like marshmallow roasting sticks.

And if you really like a watch with flat lugs, just make sure that the lug to lug distance is still within your wrist width for the best results.>

Trust me: I’ve bought 3 watches with a 50mm lug to lug distance and flat lugs. The watch would not sit flush against my wrist at the lug tip, leaving a big and gap between the tip of the lug and my wrist.

Not to mention that they overhung… Not only was it painful to look at, but it was really uncomfortable. Don’t make the same mistake.

The Hour Markers Circle

Okay, now we’re getting serious. Remember when I said that the watch case size is not everything? Well, here is a not so obvious reason why.

The hour markers circle size is another important factor that makes a watch look bigger or smaller. Maybe you read or heard some people telling that a “42 mm watch wears like a 40 mm”.

This is because the hour markers circle size is small for the watch case.

This is not really a physical dimension, but it’s one that is most definitely visible when you look at the dial of a watch.

The hour markers circle size is measured from one tip of an hour marker on the dial to the tip of the opposite hour marker.

Again, you can get more information about this in my How To Measure A Watch Case Size article.>

As you can see on my Citizen Promaster Nighthawk (on the left), the crystal is huge. It fills most of the 42 mm case, yet the hour markers circle only measures 26 mm.

On the other end of the spectrum, that 42 mm Hamilton Pilot Day Date Automatic (Amazon link) has a whopping 35 mm hour markers circle size. Yet it has the exact same case size than the Citizen!

I love the Hamilton, but it looks huge on me – even with its 48 mm lug to lug distance.

The Hamilton has thick lines at the edge of the dial that really stand out in real life (more than the numbers). That’s why I measured the hour markers circle there.

As soon as I began to get this measurement on watches – either in real life or on pictures – I could know if a watch would suit my wrist (granted the case size and lug to lug distance was good too).

On my 6 inch wrist, I find that 30mm is as big as the hour markers circle can get. I only get a watch with a greater hour markers circle size if all the other boxes are ticked and I really, really, really like it.

So, watch out for this hour markers circle.

The Bezel

Watches with a bezel have a smaller hour makers circle, and so will look smaller. A 40mm watch with a bezel will always look smaller than a 40mm watch with no bezel.

For example, my Orient Ray 2 has a case size of 41.5mm. Yet it looks smaller than my Seiko SRPB41, measuring only 40.5mm.

Why?

The Orient has a 25mm hour markers circle, while the one on the Seiko is 32mm! (I know I said 30mm is the maximum for me, but I don’t care, I really, really like it :P)>

If sports watches are more your thing, finding a watch that will suit your small wrist should be fairly easy. Sports watches often feature a bezel.

The two most common bezel types are the ones you find on dive watches and chronographs.

  • The first one features a rotating bezel counting the elapsed time underwater by 5 minutes increments.
  • The second one is a tachymeter, giving you a speed by timing the time you take to drive one mile.

There are other bezels out there, but they will all reduce the hour markers circle size, so pick your favorite one.

Some dress watches feature a bezel too, but not as thick and prominent as the one you might find on sports watches.

If you’re really into the more dressier side of watches, pay attention and get a watch with a bezel (that is part of the case, most of the time), if possible.>

For example, the Rolex Explorer above (which looks stunning, by the way) has a fixed polished bezel that will reduce the size of the dial. And consequently, the hour markers circle as well.

The Chapter Ring

Sometimes, the rotating bezel is not on the outside of the watch, but rather under the crystal. Inside the case, it’s not called a bezel, but a chapter ring.

And guess what: a chapter ring also changes the perception you have of a watch size. It will give you the same benefit as a bezel, but with a different look: you’ll get a much bigger crystal.

Just be aware that a watch with a bigger crystal will still always look bigger than a watch with a smaller crystal.

But once you know that, it all depends on the look you’re after. Bezel or chapter ring? It’s up to you.

Many watches have chapter rings, including watches with bezels. Some are thin, some are large. Some are fixed, some are rotating.

It doesn’t matter, they have the same effect: they keep the hour markers away from the edge of the case. So that the subjective size of a watch with a chapter ring will be smaller.

One of the most pleasing chapter rings you get (in my opinion) is the one you find on some pilot watches: the slide rule.

It looks good and it’s super useful (to convert currencies while abroad, for example). Another popular chapter ring is the compass you find on hiking watches. Again, pick your favorite style.

The Color of the Dial: Dark vs Light

If you take two exact same watches – one with a light dial and one with a dark dial – the one with a dark dial will always look smaller. This is because of the way our brain perceives the light reflected by objects.>

Of course, you don’t have to get a black watch just because it looks smaller.

But if you have smaller wrists and you like light dials, you should get a watch with a smaller case size and hour markers circle size than you would normally get to compensate that perception.

The Case Thickness

Thin watches for the win!

One last thing about the watch case itself. A watch will always look a bit smaller if it’s thinner. The effect is not as visible as having a small case size, lug to lug distance, hour markers circle, or dark dial, but it certainly helps.

You’ll have an easier time getting a thin watch by getting a dress watch (quartz or mechanical). Most quartz watches are super thin too.

You’ll get the added benefits of having a watch that fits easily under the cuff, and that is lightweight and comfortable to wear.

Thick watches (of more than 12mm) tend to be really top heavy, especially if you wear them on a band or strap.They might turn around your wrist and will always look a bit bigger.

Watch and Strap Sizing FAQs

Here are the answers to some common questions about watch sizing.

How Do I Choose a Watch Size?

The easiest way to choose a watch size is by using your wrist size and comparing it to the watch case size and lug to lug distance using the chart above.

We recommend a case size that’s 60% to 75% of your flat wrist width and a lug to lug distance that’s 75% to 95% of your wrist width.

Are Watches One Size Fits All?

It depends. If you have a fairly average wrist size, then you probably don’t need to worry too much about watch or strap size.

But there’s also a lot of misinformation out there in the form of people wearing watches that are too big (more common) or too small (less common). That’s why it’s important to know your wrist size.

Can You Adjust the Size of a Watch?

No. You can adjust the size of the strap, but there’s no way to reduce the size of the watch case.

How Do You Tell if a Watch Is Too Big for Your Wrist?

The easiest way to tell is by simply looking at it. If it looks too big, it probably is.

What Size Watch Band Do I Need?

The size of watch band you need for a watch depends on two factors: the lug width of the watch case, which correlates to strap width, and the circumference of your wrist, which correlates to strap length. See our sizing chart above for more information.

Is a 40mm Watch Too Big for a 6-Inch Wrist?

Yep—we recommend not going above 38mm for a 6” wrist. (That said, if the 40mm watch has a short lug to lug distance, you may be able to get away with it, but it’s unlikely.)

Guide to the Best Budget Mid-Tier Watches ($250-$400)

Mid-Tier Replicas ($250-400)

On a budget? That's okay! This list is for you. These are not the $500+ versions with super clone movements or hyper fine details. These are the better than bottom barrel, 'good enough' versions.

All models with an * are considered High tier (aka the best you can get and are quite good).

Rolex

  • Submariner 116610LN, LV and others: BP Factory ($350) (ZF 116610LN is $400), VRF ($320-$350)

  • Submariner 126610LN, LV and others: BP Factory ($350)

  • Submariner 116040 and 126040 (no date): BPF ($300)

  • *Explorer I: BP Factory ($300)

  • Explorer II 216570: BP factory ($350)

  • *Seadweller 16600: BP Factory ($300)

  • Daytona: VRF V2 (Panda / Black) modified 7750 at an affordable price of $378

  • GMT Master II (Batman, Batgirl, Pepsi, LN): BP Factory with incorrect hand stack movement A2836 ($300)

  • GMT Master II 5 digit 16710/16750: BP factory $330

  • Datejust 36 (all variants): BP Factory with 2824 movement ($300-$320), ARF ($400)

  • Datejust 41 (all variants): BP Factory with 2824 movement ($310-$320)

  • DayDate 36/40: BP Factory ($300+)

  • Oyster Perpetual 41 and 36: BP Factory ($320)

  • Yachtmaster 40mm: VRF with 2836 movement ($350-$370)

Audemars Piguet

  • *15450 Royal Oak 37mm: JF for $380

  • 15400 Royal Oak 41mm: APSF v1 (might not be widely available) for $300

  • 15500 Royal Oak 41mm: MPF ($300)

  • 15703 RO Offshore: ROF ($400)

  • No other 'good enough' reps for AP. Recommend higher price bracket. See AP section for who makes the best.

Patek Philippe

  • Nautilus: BP Factory for $350.

  • Aquanaut: BP Factory for $350 (unsure if still made)

  • *Calatrava 5296: ZF for $400

  • Still recommend higher price bracket for Nautilus and Aquanaut

Vacheron Constantin:

  • *Patrimony Date: PPF for $318

  • No other good recommendations - for Overseas go for ZF (higher price bracket)

Tudor

  • *BB58: ZF ($300)

  • *BB36: KRF ($340)

  • Pelagos: ZF ($360)

Omega

  • *Planet Ocean 600m 39.5mm: VSF ($390)

  • *Seamaster Diver 300m: VSF/SBF with clone ($390), ZF with modified 2824 ($360)

  • *Seamaster Spectre: VSF v2 ($390)

  • *Speedmaster Racing Chrono 40mm: HRF ($380)

  • *Seamaster Aqua Terra 150m: VSF ($400)

Cartier

  • *Tank Louis: DRF for $248

  • *Tank Solo: K11 for $280

  • *Ballon Bleu 42mm: AF for $250

  • *Santos: F1

  • *Ballon Bleu 42: AF ($200-250)

IWC

  • *Portofino: V7F ($310)

  • *Mark XVIII Pilot: V7F ($350)

  • There are more <$400 IWC model available, check TD websites.

Jaeger LeCoultre

  • Master Ultra Thin Moonphase: AZF ($380)

  • Reserve de Marche: ZF ($390)

Panerai

There are reps that are <$400, but look for anything by VSF from a TD website

Richard Mille

Nothing noteworthy in this price range.

Source

Guide to Watch Movements

Common movements used in rep watches

Non-chrono

1. 21J/DG2813 (note that despite the “21J” description these movements usually run 23 jewels). This is a generic term used to cover a wide variety of cheap Chinese movements – some are better than others, but as a general rule they are low-beat (21,600vph / 6 ‘ticks’ per second) movements, very cheaply built (from as little as $7 for the whole movement) but generally reliable and easy to live with. Usually automatic, but occasionally hand wind, dependent on the watch. A lot of really nice budget watches come with these fitted and whilst the sweep isn’t as smooth as, say, a gen Rolex, they’re damned good value for money and can just be thrown away and replaced if they break or need a service.

There’s also the DG4813 variant, which is high-beat but this has become very difficult to obtain of late, so is not commonly seen. It has largely been replaced by the Z2 (see below)

2. Z2 aka ‘high beat 2813’ aka various other names. Some have suggested that this is one to avoid, but it’s not quite that clear cut. Basically a cheap 28,800vph alternative to the “Asian ETA” movements, these are occasionally swapped into existing models by the factories without informing the dealers. Reliability can be okay – provided you get a good one. The real issue is that there are no parts available, so servicing can be a problem. The Asian ETAs are a much better choice, but these are maybe worth considering if the price is right – just don’t be conned into buying high-priced reps with ’em, it ain’t worth it.

3. Asian ‘clone’ ETA (A2824/A2836 & variants): These are literally copies/clones of the equivalent Swiss (ETA) automatic movements. Generally high quality – although not as well built as the Swiss equivalents – but reliable and with parts generally available (which makes servicing an easier proposition than some other movements). High beat (28,800) and great value. Probably the best choice of movement for higher-quality reps as they give the smooth sweep found in most gen watches

4. Swiss ETA (2836/2824 as above): Supposedly the genuine ETA (owned by swatch group) swiss automatic movements. This is a complete lottery. ETA have not been supplying ebauches outside Swatch group for several years now. There are NO new ETA movements in reps any more – only refurbished (usually with Asian parts). On top of that, as anyone who’s been in the game for a while should know, factories tell the dealer the spec of the watch they’re producing – and the dealers then use that for their sales pitch. That spec often then changes dependent on what parts the factories have available on a particular day – about which they DO NOT inform the dealers. Given that dealers DO NOT take the back off the watch during QC (nor should they), they’re as much in the dark about it as you. At best you get a refurbished (i.e. used) movement with asian parts in it. I wouldn’t recommend spending extra for ETA in a rep these days – more often than not, you’ll be getting an asian clone.

5. Sellita: As mentioned above, supply of ETA movements is getting very difficult as Swatch group are no longer selling ebauches outside their own group of companies. Sellita are another Swiss company who make a very similar range of high-quality movements. We’ve seen a few reps with “Swiss ETA” being supplied with Sellitas, but they’re fairly rare.

6. Rolex 3135 copy (and other Rolex clone movements). This is an Asian clone ETA automatic movement with modified rotor and bridges to make it look more like the real thing. It’s not going to convince anybody who knows their Rolex movements and tends to be less reliable than the alternatives (as well as being more expensive!). There are newer versions beginning to appear which are a little more reliable and look closer to the gen, but they are still near impossible to service and generally inferior to the clone ETAs. Rolex have closed casebacks anyhow, so I really don’t see the point in paying the extra for what is, effectively, just a higher-priced and less reliable Asian clone movement.

There is one notable exception to the above – the Yuki-sourced movement used by JF in their new (as of 2017) high-end subs. This is a proper copy of the Rolex movements (to the extent of being compatible with a lot of gen parts) and is much better quality than the modified Asian ETA-based clones otherwise supplied in reps. A good movement and well worth consideration.

7. Miyota 9015. With the disappearance of gen ETA movements, some reps are now coming with Japanese Miyota-sourced movements. The 9015 is a case in point – a high-beat 28,800vph 25 jewel movement that is an excellent alternative to ETA or clone ETA models mentioned above. Highly reliable and very good quality. Don’t hesitate.

8. Miyota 8215. As above, a solid workhorse movement. The only gotcha is that the second hand on these movements tends to stutter a little and is therefore a lot less smooth than the 9015 or, say, an Asian 2836 clone. The amount of stutter is dependent on the weight of the second hand – the heavier/longer the hand, the worse it’s going to be. I’d certainly avoid this movement on watches such as Tudors which tend to have “snowflake” hands. Although the 8215 is reliable, for this reason I would tend to think carefully before buying a watch with this movement.

9. Sea-Gull. Sea-Gull are a chinese maker of both movements and watches. Quality is very close to that of the Swiss and Japanese manufacturers and they’re generally a very safe buy – they make clones of several well-known movements (such as the 6497) as well as their own designs. The ST2555 has lately been turning up in quite a few reps. As with Miyota, they’re a good choice. Don’t hesitate.

10. A6497/A6498: An Asian copy of the Unitas 6497 or 6498 movement. Common in Panerai and various others – it’s an ultra-reliable yet inexpensive hand wind movement available with or without swan-neck regulator. Note, however, that there are several different grades and some are better built than others. However, they’re easy to service and generally bombproof. Either 18,000vph (5 ‘ticks’ per second) or 21600 vph (6 ‘ticks’ per second) but it is hard to tell the difference visually due to the short seconds hand (where fitted). It can come with or without a seconds hand, but usually with. If it has a seconds hand, the 6497 has the seconds hand opposite the crown (i.e. at 9 if the crown is at 3) whereas the 6498 has the seconds 90 degrees to the left of the crown (i.e. at 6 if the crown is at 3).

11. Swiss Unitas 6497/6498: Again, a hand wind movement. They used to be found in some higher-end Panerai reps but that has now ended since ETA quit supplying ebauches outside Swatch Group some years back.

12. Molnija: Not common these days, but DSN and others have used them on occasion – mainly for vintage Panerai models. This is actually a Russian-built descendant of the Cortebert (latterly Rolex) hand-wind pocketwatch movements used by Panerai and others in the 40s-50s. Very high quality but parts can be tricky to obtain. Functionally similar to the 6497 above and generally reliable, but less robust than the 6497.

13. Asian 52010 aka Liaoning SL6601. This movement has started to appear in the IWC 5007 and could, of course, turn up in other reps with similar functions in due course. It supports secs@9, PR @3 plus date. Liaoning are another well-established Chinese maker of movements – quality is generally good, although parts can be difficult to obtain. Should be relatively easy to service and reliability appears to be decent.

Then there are a few that don’t fit any of the above groups. Movements advertised as “Asian 23J with power reserve” being probably the most common. These can vary from being basic 21J’s with an added module for the PR complication to something like Sea Gull’s 23J PR movement – the latter being of rather better quality than most other low-beat autos and likely to be long-term reliable. You’ll also see ‘Asian 35J” movements advertised fairly frequently – which can also be from a range of sources but are often higher-quality generic Chinese movements similar to the Sea-Gull mentioned above – not as good as a normal Asian clone or other mainstream movement and generally low-beat, but can be good value for money in the right rep. One last oddity worth mentioning is the A7750 as described below. This is sometimes used as a regular automatic movement with the chrono complications removed (most often in Panerai autos). In this form it is much less fragile and many of the caveats mentioned elsewhere no longer apply. Likewise you will – even more rarely – find the same non-chrono A7750 with the auto-wind mechanism removed. This essentially removes the fragile parts that can be damaged by hand-winding on the normal version and is, likewise, not subject to most of the caveats noted elsewhere.

Chrono

Japan OS chrono (aka Japan Quartz aka a variety of other names): Basically cheap quartz chrono movements (i.e. battery powered). Reliable, great timekeepers, cheap. There’s a couple of varieties with different features, but quality is the same. If you can live with a ticking chrono hand (and seconds subdial) rather than the smooth sweep provided by autos, then there’s no reason not to buy one of these. Note that there are ‘smooth sweep’ quartz movements available and they very occasionally show up in reps. They’re a bit more expensive than regular quartz, but good quality. The smooth sweep applies to center seconds (i.e. the chrono hand) only, however – not running seconds in a subdial.

A7750 (occasionally called Asian Valjoux 7750): The standard automatic chrono movement used in a vast range of replica watches. Usually high-beat (28,800vph), but there is an older low-beat (21,600 vph) variant which still pops up now and again. Occasionally converted to hand-wind and also used in some non-chrono reps. Can be fragile and is difficult to service due to the lack of available spares. When serviced and running properly, however, it’s solid and works well. See the separate sticky about caveats as there are problems with some adaptations to this movement: http://www.replica-watches-guide.com/forum…?showtopic=6101

A7753: This is a variant on the A7750 and not a true clone of the Swiss 7753. Its primary difference from the A7750 is that its native position for subdials is 3, 6, 9 as opposed to 6, 9,12 for the 7750. The resulting lack of transfer gearing needed to move the subdials into the more common 3, 6, 9 position reduces the distance between datewheel and dial eliminating the ‘sunken datewheel’ seen on many reps. These movement also frequently feature a pusher (usually flush) at the 10 position which operates quick-set date. So far it has only made it into a handful of fairly recent models (notably Panerai). In other respects it shares the same strengths and weaknesses with its A7750 sibling, but the lack of transfer gearing does make it a little more robust in some cases.

A7751: This is a goodie as it replicates all the functions of the genuine Swiss movement including working moonphase complication. Found in a limited number of reps (notably a couple of Longines and Patek models). Should be treated gently but generally appears to be reliable.

Swiss Valjoux 7750: Used to appear in high-priced reps occasionally, but no longer available to the rep makers since ETA quit supplying ebauches to makers outside Swatch Group.

Copy Venus (or sometimes inaccurately described as Lemania). Actually a Sea Gull ST19 – fundamentally the same as the original Swiss Venus movement as Sea-Gull bought the original tooling. This is an excellent handwind chrono movement. Very reliable and feels like quality. The most robust chrono movement in reps outside of quartz options. Don’t hesitate.

Source

  • 3Hz is also called 21600bph or 6bps, 4Hz is 28800bph or 8bps.
    The reason for this disparity (3Hz vs 6bps or 4Hz vs 8bps) is that the balance wheel advances the second hand both on the clockwise turn and counterclockwise turn, so a full turn cycle is 2 beats.

  • Chinese 21J, Chinese 23J – no-name movements, based on DG2813 (if you’re lucky) or the Chinese Standard Movement and company, that the Chinese have perfected… mostly when it comes to cost of production – they can make a shitty versions for under 10 dollars, but you cannot expect any kind of reliability from it. The worst versions can be found in Chinese street reps and tend to break after a few months of use. If you ever see something like a Daytona with days of the week and month indicator on the subdials, you can bet it sports one of those bad boys.
    Some of the more reputable factories sometimes use movement called that and you can expect them to be of a passable to good quality then, but it’s still hit or miss.
    Most of them are 3Hz, some are 4Hz.

  • DG2813 or other DG-something – firstly, it still might be the shitty movements described above (especially if called A2813), them being clones of DG movements, which are in turn clones of old movements from Citizen. If you get an actual DG2813, you should not expect amazing quality, but it is very reasonable for it to work for years (accuracy is another thing though).
    Most of them are 3Hz, some are 4Hz (e.g. DG4813).

  • A2824, A2836 – the best of the best – ETA used to have factories in China, so the Chinese know how to produce the movements. The materials are somewhat worse than ETA required and the quality control is nowhere near what you would find in a gen Breitling or such, but they are reliable, any watchsmith can service or repair them, and replacements are freely available anywhere.
    They beat at 4Hz.

  • A2892 – Chinese copy of a newer, thinner “version” of ETA 2824 – good movement, but way more rare and as such possibly slightly lower quality than the above two. Most of them will probably come from Sea-Gull, which would be good, but they might be QC rejects.
    They beat at 4Hz.

  • A6497/A6498 – clone of ETA Unitas 6497/6498, great movement, simple, handwound, you are most likely to find one in a Panerai rep and you can’t really go wrong with this one.
    They beat at 3Hz.

  • Swiss ETA 2824/2836/others – hit or miss – it depends on how the repmakers sourced it and how they stored it. I have a rep with a swiss movement and it performs beautifully, other people report the opposite – problems and having to replace. Could also get a Sellita instead of ETA (which is in no way a bad thing, Sellita is an excellent Swiss movement manufacturer and a former contractor for ETA).
    They beat at 4Hz unless vintage (check specific model) or Unitas 6497 – 3Hz.

  • A775X (X is placeholder for other digits) – ETA Valjoux 775X clone, used in most rep chronographs. More costly to service and harder to source than other Asian ETAs, also more likely to break – all of this because it’s more complex. Check if the positions of the subdials were modified compared to the original – if yes, that’s a major yellow flag when it comes to relability and servicability. There are exceptions – ZF IWC chronos for example started using a sensible mod that you can safely go for.
    They beat at 4Hz.

  • SA3135 – a modded A2836, may accept a genuine Rolex datewheel. Possibly the worst option you can get in a Submariner.
    They beat at 4Hz.

  • SH3135, SH3131, VR3135 – Chinese “superclone” rolex movements, harder to service than A2836, but a lot of people prefer them because they can fit a genuine datedisc on them (not SH3131 because it has no date). Not actual superclones (as in there are differences between those and actual Rolex movements), but can be swapped for a genuine movement if you can get your hands on one.
    They beat at 4Hz.

  • (S)A3186/(S)A3187 – modified asian ETA with contraptions that make it impossible to service and faulty. Best avoided, but currently the only way to get correct hand stack (as in order of hands seconds -> minutes -> 24hr -> 12hr) and setting method in Rolex GMT.
    They beat at 4Hz.

  • A4130 – a weird mod of A7750 with subdials moved and possibly decorated, which is pointless in a closed-caseback watch. Comments about modified A7750s apply.
    They beat at 4Hz.

  • SA4130 – either a complete superclone of Rolex 4130, or an ARF mod of A7750 – check if it’s from Noob Factory and expensive – if yes, its the former, otherwise the latter. ARF SA4130 simply doesn’t use the minutes and hours subdials (they are frozen) so there is little to no problem with added torque. If it’s not a new expensive Noob or ARF, it’s probably A4130 (described above) with an S tacked in front of the name.
    They beat at 4Hz.

  • A8900/A8500 (in Omega reps) – movements modified to look like Omega calibers. Used to be modified ETA clones or even modified Chinese 21J/23J, but lately VSF started boasting a “superclone” version that gives the same functionality as gen. Some people seem to overhype those “superclones” as actual complete cloned movements – this is not actually the case, but they are reportedly more reliable than SA3186/SA3187s which strive to provide a similar functionality. Also, no rep Omega movements have the correct beatrate currently (3.5Hz), none have actual co-axial escapement (to my knowledge), and they use overlays with fake jewels, so take VSF’s “almost the same as genuine movement” with a grain of salt.
    They beat at 3Hz or 4Hz depending on the movement used as a base. VSF “superclones” beat at 4Hz.

  • Sea-Gull movements – mostly good movements, but the versions used in reps are not exactly high end (more likely factory QC rejects or lower-tier versions).
    Check specific model to know beatrate.

  • Miyota movements – mostly good movements, but the versions used in reps are not exactly high end (more likely factory QC rejects or lower-tier versions). People were high on Miyota 9015 at first (it’s thin like ETA 2892) because it made some thin reps possible, going as far as putting it in Tudor Pelagos for example, but in the end a lot of Miyota9015 reps have noisy rotors (unidirectional rotors can rotate in one direction freely so it’s harder to silence), so their expansion into the rep industry has been halted somewhat. Miyota 8125 is mostly an entry-level movement and often found in Submariner homages for example.
    Another thing worth mentioning is that SevenFriday reps use Miyota movements for a different reason entirely – the gens also do.
    9015 beats at 4Hz, 8125 beats at 3Hz, movements in SevenFridays beat at 3Hz (at least all of those I know about).

    Written by u/eposseeker

Omega Buying Guide

What models this guide will cover: 2018 Seamaster Professional Diver 300m, 2019 Seamaster Diver Titanium model, Seamaster 300 "Spectre", Aqua Terra 8500/8900 series, De Ville Hour Vision, De Ville Prestige (Including Orbis), Constellation. I will update it time after time, probably the soonest update will be dedicated to Planet Ocean model and then im planning to add info about all 007 limited models.

If, after reading that guide, you would have any Omega related questions/thoghts, feel free to PM me or comment here.

1. 2018 Seamaster Professional Diver

Gen Specs:

· Width 42 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 13,7 mm

· Movement: In-house Caliber 8800, METAS-certified

· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)

· Retail price: around 5200 USD

VSF Seamaster Diver 300m V2 Specs:

· Width 42 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 14 mm

· Movement: Asian ETA 2824 decorated to Omega 8800 Caliber

· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)

· Price: around 350 USD (bracelet version)

Known issues:

· Short crown guard in comparison to the gen (minor)

· End links have their 2 mid lines not flat like gen or like bracelet, they are still rounded (like a half pipe), should be flat like on the bracelet.

· Lume color (some people claim the lume color to be yellowish/greenish instead of being pure white. In my personal opinion its not a flaw, cause it really depends on the lightning very much, not to mention that charged lume changes color. Ive seen some gen watches with the same lume.

· Blue model color is a little off

· In my opinion grey dial needs a little more visible brushing

Summary:

All case dimensions are correct (or if 0,3 mm is a flaw for you – almost correct). All the issues with the V1 were corrected with the V2 - pearl, bracelet, black balance wheel. The bezel is great, the crystal AR is great. Movement is reliable and easy to fix if something goes wrong. The engravings on the dial are correct (but sometimes it happens that they have sharp edges, putting attention to this point is needed during the QC, especially blue and grey dials)

Overall It’s a great replica out of the box!

BEST current option is to get ZF watch (due to the correct crown guards shape + correct balance regulator pin on the movement) and an ORF bracelet (due to correct end links shape)

2. 2019 Seamaster Ceramic bezel Titanium case

Gen Specs:

· Width 43,5 mm

· Lug width 21 mm

· Thickness 15 mm (I actually had to call my AD and ask him to source this info for me, cause they do not have that watch at stock)

· Movement: In-house Caliber 8806, METAS-certified

· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)

· Retail price: around 8100 USD

2019 VSF Seamaster Diver Titanium V2 Specs:

· Width 43,5 mm

· Lug width 21 mm

· Thickness 14,5 mm

· Movement: Asian ETA 2824 decorated to Omega 8806 Caliber

· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)

· Price: around 410 USD

General info:

Main differences from a regular model are case dimensions, material, no DW, dial is made in a opposite way (its matte black with glossy waves)

Flaws I can see:

· Bezel dots look flat on VSF (Gen seems to have some depth)

· Pearl seems to be too deep on VSF

· Same issue with the crown guard being a little shorter (minor in my opinion)

Summary:

I think its still a great rep, all the flows are really minor.

3. Seamaster 300 "Spectre" Limited Edition

Gen Specs:

· Limited series - 7007 pieces

· Width 41 mm,

· Lug width 21 mm

· Thickness 14,8 mm

· Movement: In-house Caliber 8400

· Retail price: around 7500 USD

Seamaster 300 "Spectre" Limited Edition VSF V2 Specs:

· Width 41 mm

· Lug width 21 mm

· Thickness 14 mm

· Movement: VSF 8400 Clone movement

· Price: around 370 USD (bracelet version)

Known issues:

· Dial on the version 2 was improved with better matte finish, now it looks similar to gen.

· Bezel teeth are still not improved. They are supposed to be rectangular shape, but VSF's are circular shape.

· The font on the back cap is a little wrong. "Spectre" should have been written in bold font (kind of more dark), same as 007, but it’s written in a regular as all the other words.

· Seconds hand (lollipop one) has a nob on the top of it, instead of being round

· Some people claim bracelet has wrong spacing (I cant judge based on photos) and recommend getting MKF bracelet.

4. Aqua Terra 8500 / 8900 series

Gen 8900 Specs:

· Width 41 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 13,6 mm

· Movement: In-house Caliber 8900, Co-axial

· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)

· Retail price: around 5700 USD

VSF Aqua Terra 8900 Specs:

· Width 41 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 13 mm

· Movement: VSF 8900 clone movement

· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)

· Price: around 380 USD (bracelet version)

Short comparison (based on owning both gen and rep):

· The dial looks absolutely perfect (even considering that my gen is another color, ive tried gen with the same white/orange) at my AD and I consider it "1:1"), it reflects light and changes color same as gen.

· All size dimensions and finishing are right. That 0,6mm thickness difference does not feel on the wrist at all.

· The weight is right. At least they do feel the same in hands. The bracelet is same light as on gen.

· You can actually see the difference in vph when you know its there and your seconds hands are aligned on both watches (it looks like 40 fps with 60 - smth like that, hard to describe)

· The main difference I found is the bracelet feel, it needs an oil bath for sure (mine got it, now its better)

· Clasp is a little loose, it does not feel on the wrist unless you actually tap on it.

· Also the closest colors are black and white, blue seems to have some purple shade in it (gen does not have it).

· Some people claim that the grey dial DW color is wrong (i went to my AD specifically to check that aspect, IMO it is fine)

Gen 8500 specs:

· Width 41,5 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 12,8 (13) mm

· Movement: In-house Caliber 8500, Co-axial

· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)

· Retail price: around 6000 USD

VSF Aqua Terra 8500 Specs:

· Width 41 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 12 mm

· Movement: VSF 8500 clone movement

· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)

· Price: around 340 USD (bracelet version)

General info:

Main differences with AT 8900

· Size is a little different

· DW is at 3 marker on 8500 and at 6 at 8900

· Bracelet links are turned upside down on the newer 8900 (links are trapezoids, AT 8900 braclet has its links wide side up and 8500 wide side down)

· Different clasp design

Known issues:

· Blue dial is wrong color (VSF did not nail the blue color at all their reps) Black and white are really good.

· Thickness (just a little)

· Same situation with frequency

· Some people claim the bracelet a little thinner (controversial, did not find any confirmation)

Summary:

Both 8500 and 8900 models are really well repped by VSF. I did not find any info stating that VSF clone movements failed (both movements are available more than for a year), my watch smth also confirmed that the movement is pretty solid. So it will more depend on what design you prefer. Especially if you will choose black or white color.

Bonus

Updated VSF AT Spectre Gauss 15007 V2:

· New updated dial has its texture really well done (blue color is also correct), may be the ovals need to be a little more smooth - minor

· Rotor is well decorated (same 3D shape as gen)

Summury:

It absolutely is a winner in comparison with KW (with flat dial and flat rotor) version and a good rep to get.

5. De Ville Hour Vision

Gen Specs:

· Width 41 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 13 mm

· Movement: In-house Caliber 8500, co-axial

· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)

· Retail price: around 7700 USD

VSF De Ville Hour Vision 41 8500 Specs:

· Width 41 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 13,8 mm

· Movement: VSF 8500 clone movement

· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)

· Price: around 438 USD (leather strap version)

The actual comparison found here

Issues found:

· The dial circles surrounding the dial are wrong shape (they have to be engraved a little under the angle to the center of the dial).

· Those circles should have smooth angles (like a pipe) and VSF has them like rectangles.

· The DW window metal surrounding should go down flat till the actual DW (VSF one is not that deep and flat)

· The metal markers on the gen have a big angle on the top of them (while VSF ones are almost flat)

Summary:

Overall they nailed colors really good. Even the blue one. Case shape looks pretty good also. Dial and DW need improvements

6. De Ville Prestige (including Orbis)

Gen Specs:

· Width 39,5 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 10 mm

· Movement: In-house Caliber 2500, co-axial (its an ETA 2892-2 based movement with added co-axial escapement)

· The watch actually comes in A, B, C and D. AFAIK, C and D are 25,200 VPH while the A and B are 28,800 VPH.

· Retail price: around 3900 USD

MKF De Ville Prestige Specs:

· Width 39,5 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 10 mm

· Movement: Asian Clone ETA 2824-2

· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)

· Price: around 270 USD

MKF De Ville Prestige issues:

· Overall the dial is pretty good (however the white color seems a little off under some lightning)

· DW font is a little off (smaller than gen)

· Logo on the clasp looks bigger on MKF than on the gen

· Caseback engravings are deeper and wider on gen.

Summary:

Cant say why it is listed in the NWBIG list, but to my eye it should not be there (at least for now), I mean it’s a good rep, but some work still have to be done (pretty easy work).

RXW De Ville Prestige Orbis Specs:

· Width 39,5 mm

· Lug width 20 mm

· Thickness 10 mm

· Movement: Asian clone ETA 2892

· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)

· Price: around 290 USD

RXW De Ville Prestige Orbis issues:

· Leather strap color is too light blue comparing to gen

· Date font misalignments

Summary:

Overall it’s a very decent rep. But changing strap to gen is recommended. Also I recommend asking your TD to send you some more photos of DW with different numbers during QC process.

7. Constellation

Gen Specs:

· Width 38 mm

· Lug width 25 mm

· Thickness 13 mm

· Movement: In-house Caliber 8500, co-axial

· Frequency: 3.5 Hz (25,200 vph)

· Retail price: around 5900 USD

VSF Constellation 38 8500 Specs:

· Width 38 mm

· Lug width 25 mm

· Thickness 13 mm

· Movement: VSF 8500 clone movement

· Frequency: 4 Hz (28,800 Vibrations per hour)

· Price: around 390 USD

Issues found:

· Textured dial models have their texture pretty close, but still lacking the wave texture on the rhombus top right side (except that, they are pretty decent)

· Some colors of dials on VSF are lacking all the brushing, they just have a matte finished dial, when gen has brushed finish centered at the star on the dial. For example black dial lacks it, and brown has it right. I find this strange, but at least it looks like that now. And it’s a major flaw

· Also they have the same flow as the De Ville Hour Vision - The DW window metal surrounding should go down flat till the actual DW (VSF one is not that deep and flat), it’s a ladder shape, but needs to be flat and deep sitting

Summary:

Since those models are not that popular as some others, I do not really think we will ever get some improvements. And considering that even gens are not so popular in a wild, it will be hard to spot those imperfections. If you like it, you can go for it. I also contacted one TD for providing me some more info about some flat dials, cause its really hard to spot some things on the photos.

Source

Guide to Known Clasp Codes for Rolex

93150 – Submariner – Non SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with fliplock clasp:

D12 – Raffles – stamped 62523H 18 – Bracelet stamped 70216 – Endlinks stamped 455b
MA11 – Yuki – stamped 93250 – Bracelet stamped 93250 – Endlinks stamped 448b.
Z10? – JKF/Cartel – stamped 76753? – Bracelet stamped 93150 – Endlinks stamped 580.

93250 – Submariner – SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with fliplock clasp:

EO6 – JF – stamped 93250 – SEL engraved EO 93250.
EO6 – TC V1 – stamped 93250 – SEL engraved EO 93250.
DE6 – TC V2/WM9 – stamped 93250 – SEL engraved EO 93250.
PJ4 – TC V5 – stamped 93250 – No engraving to SEL.
PJ4 – TC V6 – stamped 93250 – ??
PJ4 – TC V7 – stamped 93250 – No
DE6 – BP – stamped 93250.
CL1 – Sean – stamped 93250 – ??
CL1 – TW Best – stamped 93250 – SEL engraved AD 93288. (Being sold by Detroit Watch Works as genuine. Although their SEL engravings show AD 93250. See here: 

https://forum.replica-watch.info/thr…-works.405198/

)
CL10 – ARF – stamped 93253 – SEL engraved EO 93250 – *904L

93160 – Sea-Dweller – SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with fliplock clasp:

OP10 – BP – stamped 93160A – SEL engraved EO 93160A
EO10 – TC – stamped 93160A – SEL engraved EO 93160A

93253 – Submariner – SEL Bi-Metal Oyster bracelet with fliplock clasp:

CL1 – MBW – stamped 93250 – Bracelet stamped 93250.
OP3 – WM9 – stamped 93253 – Bracelet not stamped – SEL engraved 93253 (Wrapped)
OP10 – BP – stamped 93160A – Bracelet not stamped.
?? – Sean – stamped 93150 – Bracelet stamped 93250 – SEL engraved CL 93250 & 16613. (Wrapped)
1LD – CF bluesy – SEL engraved ??
1RD – VSF bluesy- SEL engraved ??
SI9 – VSF YG – SEL engraved ??

97200 – Submariner – SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Glidelock Clasp:

PJ3 – NOOB V1 2014/BP/REGMARINER – SEL engraved ??
2VU – NOOB V2 to V5 – SEL engraved RS 97200
1FY – NOOB V6S – SEL engraved G3Z 97200
ST9 – NOOB V7 – SEL engraved 80K 97200
ST9 – NOOB V7 – SEL engraved RS 97200
ST9 – NOOB V8 – SEL engraved RS 97200
ST9 – NOOB V9 – SEL engraved 80K 97200 – *904L
ST9 – NOOB V10 – SEL engraved G3Z 97200 – *904L
T1G – NOOB V10 – SEL engraved G3Z 97200 – *904L
ST9 – NAIL – SEL engraved 6YZ 97203 – *904L
ST9 – VRF – SEL engraved RS 97200 –
J9K – VRF MAX – SEL engraved ?? 97200 – *904L
ST9 – BP – SEL engraved RS 97200
PJ3 – BP – SEL engraved ??
6YZ – BP V2/GM Factory – SEL engraved ??
Y8C – ARF V1 – SEL engraved 590 97200
E5N – ARF V1 & V2 – SEL engraved 5VM 97200 – *904L
X7F – LF – SEL engraved 5WD 97200
PJ3 – JF V1 – SEL engraved ??
PJ3 – REGMARINER – SEL engraved ??
X0P – JF V2 – SEL engraved 590
ST9 – DJF – SEL engraved ?? – *904L
0HA – DJF – SEL engraved T4J 97200- *904L
6YZ – GMF – SEL engraved 6YZ 97203 – *904L
M7J – EXF – SEL engraved ??
7KY – ORF – SEL engraved ?? – *904L
C4R – ZZF V2 – SEL engraved P5M 97200 – *904L
C4R – ZZF V2S – SEL engraved RS 97200 – *904L
7QJ – RXF/XF – SEL engraved T2A 97200 – *904L
1NQ – EWF 41 mm – SEL engraved ?? 316L
UTN – EWF 40 mm – SEL engraved ?? 316L
1LD – CF Date / No Date – SEL engraved ?? 904L
H7Z – VSF Starbucks & Cookiemonster – SEL engraved ?? 904L
7GJ – VSF Date / No Date 40 mm – SEL engraved ?? 904L
H7Z – VSF 41 mm – SEL engraved ?? 904L
1LQ – VSF Date 41 mm Rehaut: 2R… – SEL engraved ?? 904L

6SH / 7GJ – VSF No Date 40 mm – SEL engraved ?? 904L

T1G – VRF Andrea Pirlo No Date 40 mm – SEL engraved “??” 904L

1NQ – GD Factory (low-tier) selled as VSF be aware!

97220 – SD43 – SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Fliplock Clasp:

453 – VRF – SEL engraved H4Y 97220
4RL – ARF – SEL engraved C4R 97220
4RL – ARF V3 – SEL engraved C4R 97220 – *904
C4R – Noob – SEL engraved ??
C4R – NOOB V2 – SEL engraved 0NW 97220 – *904
453 – GMF – SEL engraved H4Y 97220 – *904

98210 – DSSD – SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Fliplock Clasp:

T4J – BP V2 – SEL engraved ??
Z6Y – ARF V2 – SEL engraved D2Y 98210 – *904

98220 – DSSD – SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Fliplock Clasp:

T1U – ARF – SEL engraved 8UF 98220 – *904

78200 – GMT – SEL Stainless Steel Oyster polished centre links with Fliplock Clasp:

OP8 – Noob V2 – engraved 15/423 – SEL engraved OP 78200
5NF – Noob V7 – SEL engraved ??
5NF – Noob V8 – SEL engraved ??
71H – Noob CHS – SEL engraved ??
Y8C – JF v2 – SEL engraved ??
PJ1 – BP – SEL engraved ??
0HA – DJF – SEL engraved 6GF78200 – *904
T1G – Noob V9 – SEL engraved 6GF 78200 – *904
T1G – Noob V10 – SEL engraved ?? 78200 – *904
6MW – VRF 3186 Clone – SEL engraved 89K 97200 – *904
P3L – ARF 3186 clone – SEL engraved P3L 78200 – *904
5XZ – GMF – SEL engraved ?? 78200 – *904
CF Oyster & Jubilee – SEL engraved “??” 904L

69200 – GMT – SEL Stainless Steel Jubilee Fliplock Clasp:

6LX – DJF – SEL engraved A3W 62611 – *904
6MW – GMF – SEL engraved K8P 69200 – *904
6MW- BP – SEL engraved K8P 69200
6MW- Noob – SEL engraved K8P 69200 – *904
6MW- Noob – SEL engraved 1LD 69200 – *904
6MW – VRF – SEL engraved 1LD 69200 – *904

97203 – Submariner – SEL Bi-Metal Oyster with Glidelock Clasp:

Y8C – JF – SEL engraved 469 97203
6YZ – VRF – SEL engraved ??
2VU – Noob – SEL engraved PJ 97203 (Wrapped)
6YZ – BP- SEL engraved ?? (Wrapped)

78590 – Daytona – SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Fliplock Clasp:

7CD – ARF – SEL engraved 9US 78590 – *904
5NF – Noob – SEL engraved ??
X0P – JF 7750 – SEL engraved ??
Y8C – JF v1- SEL engraved ??
X0P – JF – SEL engraved ??
7GT – BP v2 – SEL engraved ??
Y8C – JF v2 – SEL engraved E0 78493
OP8 – Phong – Clasp engraved 15/423 – SEL engraved AS 78490
Z1H – Noob 4130 clone – SEL engraved ??
T1G – Noob 4130 V2 – SEL engraved Z6S 78590 – *904
5NF – JH – SEL engraved C1Z 78590
7CD – GMF – SEL engraved ?? – *904

63600 – Datejust – SEL Stainless Steel Super Jubilee bracelet:

COC – ARF – SEL engraved 931 63600
CL5 – BP – Clasp engraved 72200 – SEL engraved ??
K6G – VSF 41 mm SS – SEL engraved ??

72600 – Datejust – SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with Oysterclasp:

7UM – ARF – SEL engraved UOP 72600A
3NY – BP – SEL engraved ??
M8N – EWF 36 mm – SEL engraved ??
7UL – VSF 41 mm SS – SEL engraved ??

70400 – Oyster Perpetual – SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with Oysterclasp:

7UM – JF – SEL engraved 7GT 70400

Below are some models which I added:

Day-Date 36/40 – Clasp-Codes Stainless Steel plated / non-plated with presidential Bracelet:

7GT – BP 36 & 40mm 316L – SEL engraved “??”
7GT – GMF 904L – SEL engraved “??”
2EM – EWF – SEL engraved “??”
7GT – Noob – SEL engraved “??”

Yacht-Master I 37-/ 40-/ 42 mm -Stainless Steel plated / non-plated with Oysterclasp:

W5T – 226659 VSF 42 mm Rubber/SS – SEL engraved “??”
5XZ – 226659 GMF 42 mm Rubber/SS – SEL engraved “??”
9AX – 268622 ARF 37 mm SS – SEL engraved “??”
7CD – 116622 ARF 40 mm SS – SEL engraved “??”
3DD – 116622 Noob 40 mm SS – SEL engraved “??”
5XZ – 116622 BP 40 mm SS – SEL engraved “??”
7CD – 116621 ARF 40 mm RG – SEL engraved “??”
6OD – 116655 ARF 40 mm Rubber/RG – SEL engraved “??”
138 – 116655 Noob 40 mm Rubber/RG – SEL engraved “??”

BECAUSE THERE ARE ACTUALLY FAKES OF FAKES I WILL MENTION THEM ABOVE:

1LD – 11661X FAKE CLEAN SUBMARINERS – rehaut engraved “U9N5” (here is important, that the fake CF has 1LD smaller than “Steelinox”)t
he stickers are not that clean than the real ones. 

FAKE CLEAN CAT

 and 

FAKE CLEAN MONKEY

 and 

THIS


2R2 – 126619LB FAKE VSF COOKIEMONSTER – 

/u/pmtu´s mentioned thread

 and 

Guide to distinguish a real CF by /u/LinxujiaSource

List of Trusted Watchsmiths

The Rules as follows for the process of becoming a watchsmith, and what we hold as an agreement with each and every watchsmith that becomes trusted.

  • 1 – ID verification

  • 2 – Sticked post on your own profile stating services that watchsmith provides.

  • 3 – Information about the movements watchsmith has experience servicing.

  • 4 – Rough public estimate of the cost of service (price range).

  • 5 – After becoming a TWS (Trusted Watchsmith) At least 2 monthly contributions to the subreddit that are educational in nature.

  • 6 – Warranty on all the services provided by the watchsmith (water damage is not included)

  • 7 – Provide proof (photos) to the client about the services performed

  • 8 – Open a sticky for customers feedback

  • 9 – Before becoming a trusted watchsmith you will be vetted by mod’s and Watchsmiths alike.

Source

TRUSTED WATCHSMITHS *This will be updated as more become available.

CONUS:

u/TButtery
u/Navichief
u/P4GTR
u/Oascom
u/MajorWilliams
u/WingTrim

EU:

u/Nikz19_WatchService
u/Noleex_The_Modder

UK:

u/UnderTheDial


Source

Beginner’s Guide to Clone Movements in Rolex Replica Watches

When buying a high end replica watch, it’s important to consider both what’s on the outside and what’s on the inside. The factories in China have invested millions of dollars in re-producing exact copies of various Swiss watch movements from ETA, and in-house movements from Rolex, AP, Patek Philippe, and Richard Mille. The accuracy of the replication varies, as does their reliability of these movements. In this guide I hope to be able to give you a basic understanding of which mechanical movements are good, which ones are ok, and which ones to avoid, and importantly, how to tell the various movements apart, since the information listed on Trusted Dealer (TD) websites in the descriptions isn’t terribly accurate.

Rolex has by far the largest market share of all replica watches. As such, it’s not surprising that there are a plethora of clone movements available for the popular Rolex models.

Naming Conventions

Watch movements are often labeled with one or two letters followed by the Rolex movement number that they're a clone of. For example, the VS3235 is a clone of the Rolex 3235 movement. The prefix letters are important, but aren't assigned based on any consistent principals. Sometimes the letters are applied based on which watch factory exclusively uses the movement (e.g. VSF is the exclusive user of VS3235 movements, so that's where the "VS" part of the movement name comes from). But this pattern isn't universal, currently Clean Factory is the exclusive user of the new DD3285 movement, but that movement gets its DD prefix from "Dandong movement factory", the maker of the movement. In theory it would be best to use the movement factory names as the prefixes since movements like the VR3235 get the "VR" from the fact that they were initially used by the watch factory VRF, but are now used by many factories, so the VR3235 would be better named the SH3235 since it is made by the Shanghai movement factory. However, there are in fact two movement factories in Shanghai. Further complicating naming conventions is the fact that sometimes the letters "A" or "SA" are used as prefixes to simply mean "Asian" or "Super Asian".

In conclusion:

  • Rep movement naming conventions are a mess.
  • Don't trust what is written on TD websites.
  • Learn to identify movements based on the descriptions and labeled images below.

40mm Submariner (1166XX and 114060)

For 40mm submariners (i.e. those with reference number 1166XX), there are six options in order of quality:

  1. VS3135 (date version), VS3130 (no-date version)
  2. VR3135 (date version), VR3130 (no-date version)
  3. SH3135 (date version), SH3130 / AR3130 (no-date version)
  4. SA3135 (date version), SA3130 (non-date version)
  5. A2824
  6. A2836

Genuine Rolex Caliber 3135

For reference here’s the genuine Rolex caliber 3135. Note how there is only one arm (the beat adjustor -- red arrow) on the balance bridge of the genuine movement. This is because the genuine movement has a “free sprung” balance. That means on the genuine movement the speed of the movement is regulated (i.e. adjusting how fast or slow the movement runs) by adjusting the moment of inertia of the balance wheel via tiny weighted screws on the rim of the wheel (green arrows). On all replica movements, regulation is done via a regulation arm that can be adjusted to lengthen or shorten the effective length of the hairspring. That’s why you see only one arm on the genuine movement, but two arms on the replica movements. Also note that the 3135 movement's rotor does NOT run on ball bearings (blue arrow).

3osSAJ.png


VS3135 & VS3130

This is an excellent movement. The part finishing quality and engraving is good. The hairspring mounted clockwise. This is the best clone of the Rolex 3135 movement. Note, there is a VS3130 version of this movement which is used on the no-date 40mm VSF subs (ref number 114060). The VS3130 is of equal quality to the VS3135, it is the best option for a no-date 40mm sub.

For identification against the genuine and other clone 3135 movements, note the position of the beat adjustor arm (red arrow) and the regulator arm (green arrow). Note the type and quality of the balance shock absorber setting (blue arrow). Note that there's a difference between the VS3135 used in VSF watches and the VS3135 used in CF watches: the version used in CF watches doesn't have a serial number engraved into the main plate.

This movement used to be exclusive to VS Factory (VSF), but is now widely available and replacements are available on eBay and AliExpress for around $130 USD.

3os08P.png

VR3135 & VR3130

This is another good option for 40mm submariners. The part finishing and engraving is good. This is the second best clone of the 3135 movement. Note, there is a no-date version of the VR3135 called the VR3130. The VR3130 is a good quality no-date movement, second only to the VS3130. It's worth knowing that unlike the VS3135 (and gen) movement, the VR3135 doesn't have a shock setting for the escape wheel; this will reduce the shock resistance of the movement and is one of the reasons that the VS3135 is considered a better choice over the vr3135.

For identification of the VR3135 movement there is an easy way to tell it apart from the VS3135, on the VR3135 the hairspring is mounted counter-clockwise (purple arrow). The beat adjustor (red arrow) also has a black dot on it. But the regulator arm (green arrow) and the shock setting (blue arrow) look very similar to the vs3135.

3IuXo3.png

Please note that there is a second version of the vr3135 which has a fake beat adjustor (blue arrow), and has the real beat adjustor (red arrow) and regulator arm (green arrow) pointing inwards. This is a style that is also seen in the VR3235 movement.

3IudPs.png

This movement is used in 40mm submariners from many replica watch factories. It is also available for purchase on eBay and AliExpress as a replacement for a broken movement for around $80 USD.

SH3135 & SH3130 (AR3130)

This movement has very low quality finishing. The hairpspring is mounted counter clockwise. Avoid this movement if possible. There is also a no-date version of this movement called the SH3130 (or sometimes the AR3130) which is of similarly poor quality. Avoid both the SH3135 and SH3130 (AR3130).

For identification purposes, not the style of the beat adjustor arm with the screw on the side (red arrow), the regulator arm (green arrow), and the style steel (not brass) cup for the shock setting (blue arrow).

3osJzS.png

SA3135 & SA3130

This movement has reasonable quality of part finishing, but poor quality engraving. The hairspring mounted clockwise. Go with the VR or VS movement if you have the choice or budget. There is a no-date version of this movement called the SA3130, which is of similar quality to the SA3135; as such a better choice for a no-date 40mm submariner is the VS3130 or VR3130.

For identification purposes note the round head on the beat adjustor arm (red arrow), the style of the regulator arm (green arrow), and the style and metal (steel) of the shock setting (blue arrow).

3I7HOW.jpg

A2824

This isn’t a clone of a Rolex movement, rather it is an Asian clone of an ETA 2824 movement. There are quite a few variations on this movement since it has been around for decades and every movement factory in China has a clone version of it. This movement is reliable and easy to service and get replacement parts for. However, it doesn’t even remotely resemble what you’d find inside a Rolex. If you don’t care about what movement powers your rep, this isn’t a bad option. Complete Clone 2824 movements can be purchased on eBay and AliExpress for $20 to $50 USD. A genuine Swiss ETA 2824 will cost over $200 USD and will be a simple drop-in replacement for an Asian 2824.

For identification purposes, note the position of the beat adjustor (red arrow), the regulator arm (dark green arrow), the fine tuning rate adjustor (light green arrow), the shock absorber (blue arrow, NB: there are many different styles of shock absorbers on different clones of the eta 2824, the one in the picture is a lower end one), and finally note that the rotor runs on ball bearings (orange arrow).

3oscwL.pnga

A2836

This is another clone of an ETA movement that is never found inside a real Rolex. This movement is also reliable and easy to service. Some people prefer these movements since they are easy to fix or replace and “nobody can see inside my rep submariner”... the functions at the crown i.e. the direction you have to twist to set the date / time, will not necessarily be the same as on a cloned movement. Also this is a strange choice for a movement in a submariner since it has the functionality for both a day and date function, so it is more often seen in reps of the Rolex DayDate.

For identification purposes, this movement looks the same as the 2824 from the balance side, so there really aren't any easy ways to differentiate the two without looking at the keyless works or dial side of the movement. The pic below is here more for reference and the coloured arrows point to the same features noted in the description of the 2824 above.

3ouY3E.pnga

41mm Submariners (1266XX) and 36mm and 41mm Datejust

There are several clones of the Rolex 3235 movement which appear in 41mm Subs, and 36mm & 41mm Datejusts. Please note: There are two version of the genuine Rolex 3235 movement which have slightly different sized date wheels. This is because the date window on the dial of the 41mm DJ is further out than the date window on the 41mm Submariner. If you are buying a replacement 3235 movement, be sure you get the correct version for your watch.

It’s worth noting that there are some 36mm Datejusts that use the VR3235 movement (e.g. the ones from Clean Factory), and the ones from VS Factory (VSF) use the excellent VS3235 movement. However, the majority of non CF or VSF 36mm DJs use an ETA clone. Unfortunately, the 3235 movement is too big for the 31mm Datejust case, so all replica 31mm Datejusts use lower end Asian clones of ETA movements. This is just a function of market pressure: there’s not a lot of demand for replica watches in lady sizes.

Genuine Rolex Caliber 3235

The genuine Rolex caliber 3235 is a relatively new movement with an astonishing 72 hour power reserve. Just like the genuine 3135 the genuine 3235 doesn’t have a regulation arm on the balance bridge (there is only a beat adjustor arm -- red arrow) since the movement is regulated by adjusting micro screw weights on the rim of the balance wheel (green arrows). All the replica 3235 movements have a regulation arm, so you’ll always see two arms on the rep movement balance bridges. Also note that the automatic rotor runs on ball bearings (blue arrow). Furthermore, the escape wheel on the gen movement is skeletonized (orange arrow), whereas it is solid on all the replicas of this movement.

3ou9cs.png

VS3235

This is an incredible movement that is currently only available in VS Factory (VSF) subs and DJs. The movement has an amazing 70+ hour power reserve and is part compatible with the genuine Rolex movement. This means that it’s possible to swap gen parts into this movement to improve it. A common part swap on this movement is to replace the balance complete, pallet fork, and escape wheel with gen parts. With those parts swapped, the movement is virtually indistinguishable from the genuine caliber.

For identifications of this movement, look at the position of the two arms coming off the balance bridge (beat adjustor -- red arrow, and regulator arm -- green arrow): on the VS movement they face outwards. Also note the paraflex shock setting spring (blue arrow). The paraflex shock setting on the VS3235 movement is the actual functional shock setting, unlike on the VR3235 where the paraflex shock setting is simply a decoration plate.

Note: there is currently no non-date version of the VS3235, that is a "VS3230" movement doesn't exist (as of March 2023). The best option for a no-date 41mm submariner is the VR3230 movement (see below).

Also note that is is not possible to buy this movement on eBay or AliExpress. However, if you have a VSF sub or dj with a broken movement, there are many rep-friendly watch smiths who will be happy to swap in a VR3235 movement for you and take the broken VS3235 off your hands for spare parts.

3ou6mY.png

VR3235

This is a very common movement that is used in Subs and DJs from many different factories. This movement is technically not a clone but more of a hybrid between a 3135 and 3235 movement. This movement is reliable, although it doesn’t have the same power reserve of the VS3235, at only around 40 hours. While spare parts for this movement can be hard to find, a replacement movement is only around $100 USD on AliExpress, so it’s often more economical to replace the movement with a new one rather than service an old one.

This movement is easy to identify because it has a “fake” beat adjuster arm pointing outwards from the balance bridge (blue arrow), but the two functional arms (beat adjustor -- red arrow, and regulator arm -- green arrow) are hidden underneath the balance bridge and face inwards. Also of note, the end-shake adjustment screw on the balance bridge (purple arrow) isn’t functional, so adjusting the end-shake of the balance needs to be done with foil shims. The end shake adjustment screw simply secures a decoration plate that houses the fake paraflex shock setting (orange arrow), there is a real shock setting under this decoration plate.

Note: there is a no-date version of this movement called the VR3230 which is used on Clean Factory (CF) no-date 41mm submariners (as of August 2022). The VR3230 is the best option for a clone movement in a no-date 41mm submariner.

3ourSk.pnga

SA3235

This movement appears in some DJ41s and DJ36s. This is not a great movement, and should be avoided. The movement is decorated with poor quality plates. In the images it’s possible to see paint flaking off of the “reversing wheels” of the automatic model.

This movement can easily be identified by the decoration at the center of the rotor that is trying to make it look like the rotor runs on ball bearings like the gen 3235 (red arrow). Furthermore, the shock setting spring (blue arrow) on the balance bridge is a three sided closed spring vs. the paraflex springs that are present on the gen, VS and VR (although on the VR the paraflex spring is part of a decoration plate, and the real shock setting can be found underneath). This is a movement to avoid.

3ouQrJ.pnga

GMT Movements

For GMT movements, there are movements that have the correct hand stack (CHS) and incorrect hand stack (ICHS) on modern (6-digit) GMT models (1167XX, and 1267XX). Correct hand stack means that the hour hand is on the bottom, the GMT hand is next, then the minute hand, and the seconds hand is on top. Incorrect Hand Stack means that the GMT hand is on the bottom, the hour hand is on top of the GMT hand, then the minute hand, and the seconds hand on top.

Details on each movement are provided below, but this graphic (by @KJ2020) is a shortcut to helping ID each of the 318X series movements movements. Note: There are two "true" 3285 clone movements which are (as of summer 2023) starting to see widespread adoption by rep factories. With these two new 3285 movements (see bottom of the GMT movement section) hopefully the days of trying to figure out exactly which GMT movement is the watch you're buying (to avoid the time-bomb movements) will be a thing of the past.

Hat tip to RWI's Gandalf the Grey of GMT movements: @KJ2020 who helped me correctly identify each of the myriad clone GMT movements -- Thank you for helping me get this right.

3Iuk0Y.jpga

VR3186 (Correct Hand Stack)

This is a good movement. The VR3186 is reliable and has an hour hand jumping mechanism is strong. The VR3186 is sometimes engraved with the number 3285 (black arrow), but it’s the same movement. Below are two pictures showing the same movement with different engraving. Note that this movement is easily identifiable by the position of the arms on the balance bridge: both the beat adjuster (red arrow) and regulator arm (green arrow) point inwards and there’s a fake beat adjuster arm (blue arrow) facing outwards. Also note that a true 3285 clone movement (see below) has a rotor that runs on ball bearings not a jewel pivot (purple arrow) and has a paraflex shock setting (orange arrow) not a kif shock setting.

3oukmR.pnga

Note that there are VR3186 movements which have been engraved with the numbers "3285" (black arrow) but they are VR3186 in every other way.

3ouut1.pnga

Also note that there is an older version of the VR3186 (sometimes called the VR3185 or VR3186 v1) which has the beat adjustor arm and regulator arm facing outwards. This version of the movement can be identified by inspecting the balance bridge: the beat adjustor which has the hairspring screw pointing out the end of the arm (red arrow) and regulator arm (green arrow) point outwards (unlike the newer VR3186). Also, the shock setting has a brass cup (blue arrow).

3ouN1I.pnga


SH3186 (Correct Hand Stack)

This is a time-bomb movement that should be avoided. The hour hand jumping mechanism is weak on this movement and is prone to breaking. Furthermore, the hour hand jumping mechanism isn’t gen-spec, so it can’t be repaired with gen parts. This movement can be identified again by the position of the beat adjustor arm (red arrow, note the position of the hairspring screw on the side of the beat adjustor arm unlike on the old version of the VR3186 where this screw is on the end of the arm), and the regulator arm (green arrow) on the balance bridge. Also, unlike the old version of the VR3186, the SH3186 has a steel cup for the balance bridge shock setting (blue arrow).

3ouvNj.pnga

SA3186 (Correct Hand Stack)

This is another time-bomb movement. Like the SH3186 this movement has a weak hour hand jumping mechanism and should be avoided. This movement is easy to identify because unlike all the other CHS GMT movement it has its hairspring mounted clockwise -- this means that the beat adjustor (red arrow), and regulator (green arrow) are reversed compared to the VR3186 and the SH3186. Also, the shock setting of this movement has a steel cup (blue arrow).

3oEIE1.jpga

SA3285 (Correct Hand Stack)

In 2020, GMF released a movement called the SA3285 which was basically a slightly different version of the SA3186. This movement can be identified by the beat adjustor arm (red arrow), regulator arm (green arrow), and shock setting (orange arrow) that are the same as the SA3186. However, the SA3285 had holes drilled around the rotor mounting (blew arrow) to make it look like the rotor was running on ball bearings like a true 3285 movement (see below). This movement is of similar inferior quality as the SA3186, so it should be avoided.

3qzirj.jpga

A3186 (Incorrect Hand Stack)

This isn’t a clone of a rolex movement, but rather a clone of an ETA movement that is decorated to look like a rolex movement. ETA GMT movements are reliable and inexpensive to service and repair, however, the functionality does not match the Rolex GMT calibers. A better option is the VR3186. The movement is easy to identify by the shock setting (red arrow), the ETA style winding works (green arrow), and the ETA style reversing wheels (blue arrow).

3ouSPb.pnga

A2836 (Incorrect Hand Stack)

It’s unclear why this movement is labeled as an Asian clone of the ETA 2836, since the ETA 2836 is not a GMT movement. It’s more likely that this is a clone of the ETA 2893 movement. Nonetheless, this movement is not going to function like a genuine Rolex GMT movement, and has the wrong hand stack on the dial. A far better option is to go with the VR3186. This movement is easy to identify from the ETA style balance cock assembly (red arrow).

3ouVNt.pnga

SH3285 aka VR3285 (Correct Hand Stack)

This is a new movement (as of March 2023) which has started to appear in C+ Factory GMTs and Explorer IIs. There is little long term reliability information about this movement, although @CTime posted an excellent photo comparison of the SH3285 with the DD3285 and the Gen 3285. This movement appears to be based on the VR3235 movement (discussed above), as such it is not a true clone but rather a hybrid that has both 31XX style parts and 32XX style parts.

There have been some reliability issues reported with the SH3285 movement. Furthermore, the SH3285 appears to have subtly different sized / position parts compared to both the VR3235 movement (with which it shares its train wheel and escapement design), and the gen/DD3285.

The SH3285 can be easily identified by the position of the beat adjustor (red arrow) and regulator arm (green arrow) which face inwards and the fake beat adjustor arm (blue arrow) which faces outwards. Additionally, the end-shake adjustor screw (purple arrow) is not functional, but simply secures a decoration plate which contains a fake paraflex shock setting (orange arrow). Also, unlike the 3186 movement, the SH3285 movement's rotor runs on ball bearings (pink arrow).

3oEN1P.jpg

DD3285 aka CF3285 (Correct Hand Stack)

This is a new movement from Dandong movement factory (one of the best rep movement factories in China). This movement will apparently be exclusive to Clean Factory (CF). Based on the photo comparison posted above by @CTime, the DD3285 appears to be based on the excellent VS3235 movement, so it is likely that it will have the long 70 hour power reserve.

This movement can be easily distinguished from the SH3285 above by the position of the beat adjustor arm (red arrow), and regulator arm (green arrow) which both point outwards and are very similar to the VS3235 movement from which the DD3285 is based. Also note the functional paraflex shock setting (purple arrow) and that the rotor runs on ball bearings (blue arrow) unlike clones of the 3186 movement.

3oEVNv.png

DayDate Movements

Prior to September 2023, the only movement available for DayDate movements was the asian clone of the ETA 2836 movement (see above for images of the clone ETA 2824 movement since the 2836 looks the same from the balance side). The ETA clone is reliable and easy to service, however it doesn't operate in the same way as the gen 3255 movement from the crown. As such, for those looking for a closer to gen rep, there has always been a desire for a clone 3255 movement. This wish appears to have been granted in the form of a 3255 clone movement that looks like it is based on the reliable (albeit not a true clone) VR3235 movement from Shanghai movement factory.

VR3255

This movement is new as of September 2023 and has only (so far) appeared in DayDates from EWF. The movement looks like it comes from Shanghai movement factory and appears very similar to the SH3285 (GMT) movement and the VR3235 movement. All of these movements share the same inward facing beat adjustor arm (green arrow) and regulator arm (red arrow), with a fake hairspring stud pointing outwards (blue arrow). This movement also appears to have the same non-functional balance end-shake adjustor (magenta arrow) which doesn't adjust end-shake, but rather simply secures the decoration plate on top of the balance bridge. The movement is identifiable by the 3255 engraving (black arrow). As of this update, there is no information about the reliability of this movement, but we should expect that like most new movements (e.g. the SH3285) it will take a few iterations to work out the bugs.

H1mUCJ.png

Daytona Movements

There are two clone 4130 movements: the original Dandong 4130 movement used by Noob (until Noob was shut down in a raid in 2021), and now used by CF, BTF, QF, and "new Noob". But in June 2023 Shanghai Movement factory released a version of the 4130 movement (called the SH4130). These two movements (and the ETA 7750 which is used in lower end Daytona clones) are discussed below.

Dandong 4130 (aka DD4130 or "Noob 4130")

This movement is also known as the Noob4130 / N4130 / Dandong 4130. They are all the same. This movement is one of the highest quality replica movements available. For a long time it was exclusively available to Noob Factory. When Noob was raided and shut down in 2021, this movement disappeared from the rep scene. However, in early 2022 Clean Factory (CF), and then Better Factory (BTF), and Q Factory (QF) started making Daytonas with this movement. Daytonas with this movement are more expensive than Daytonas with a 7750 movement. However, if you care about the reliability and longevity of your rep, go for the DD4130. It’s worth the extra cost.

The DD4130 movement is also compatible with genuine Rolex parts. It’s common to replace the balance-complete, and the chronograph seconds wheel to build a movement that is nearly indistinguishable from the genuine Rolex caliber 4130. For anyone interested in a part by part macro photo comparison between the gen and Dandong 4130 movement, @CTime did the heavy lifting for you.

The DD4130 looks completely different from the 7750, learn to tell the two apart so that you can validate any claims made by a seller. Easy parts to look for when identifying a DD4130 vs. a 7750 are that the DD4130 has three screws securing the rotor (green arrow), a column wheel (red arrow), and a balance bridge (blue arrow) rather than a balance cock.

3ovzD3.pnga

Shanghai 4130

In June 2023 Shanghai Movement factory released a 4130 clone movement. As of June 2023 we have only seen this movement in Daytona reps from APSF (a factory known for their high end AP reps). There is no reliability information available as of this update (I will update this post when information becomes available). However, for now, there is an easy way to differentiate the SH4130 from the DD4130: The position and style of the beat and regulator arms on the balance bridge. Unlike the DD4130 where the beat and regulator arms point outwards, on the SH4130 the beat adjustor (red arrow) and regulator (green arrow) point inwards. Furthermore, on the SH4130 there is a fake hairspring stud (blue arrow). This style of balance bridge is common on other Shanghai clone movements such as the VR3135, VR3186, and SH/VR3285.

Hzv4Tj.jpga

7750

This is an Asian clone of an ETA 7750 movement. The reason that this movement isn’t great for the Daytona is because it is thicker than the 4130 movement, so the movement is often slimmed down (and thus made less reliable) to fit inside a 12.4mm thick Daytona case. Furthermore, the Daytona has its small seconds at 6 o’clock, but this is not the default position for the small seconds complication on the 7750 movement; various additional wheels need to be added to the top of the 7750 movement to get everything into the correct position. This complication adds stress to the movement and reduces reliability. With the clone 4130 widely available, it's a good idea to avoid Daytonas with the 7750 movement.

The 7750 can be identified by the single screw securing the rotor (red arrow), and the balance cock (green arrow) vs. the balance bridge see on the 4130.

3ovKbD.pnga

Source

Guide to Movements in Audemars Piguet, Patek Philippe & Richard Mille

This guide will be an introduction to the clone movements found in Audemars Piguet (AP), Patek Philippe (PP), and Richard Mille (RM) replicas. Just like with the clone Rolex movements, the clone movements for AP, PP, and RM are of varying quality in terms of how well they replicate the genuine movement in form & function, but also quality. However, unlike Rolex clone movements where there can be multiple different clones of a single movement (e.g. the plethora of Rolex caliber 3135 and 3235 clones), with AP, PP, and RM, there's usually just one clone movement, so I'll try to compare and contrast the clone against the alternative which is often a decorated Japanese Miyota 9015 movement.

Audemars Piguet

The most popular AP replica (by far) is the Royal Oak (RO). There are two replica AP movements, one for the RO 15400: the clone 3120 movement by Z Factory (ZF). And one for the RO 15500: the clone 4302 movement by APS Factory (APSF). The alternative to these cloned movements is the Japanese Miyota 9015 movement.

AP Royal Oak 15400
3120

The clone 3120 movement is found in both the Z Factory (ZF) and APS Factory (APSF) AP RO 15400 replicas watches at present (summer 2022). However, both factories used a decorated Miyota movement several years ago before the clone movement became available. So be careful when buying an AP 15400, just because it’s from ZF or APSF doesn’t necessarily mean that it has a clone movement.

The clone movement can be distinguished from the Miyota by the position of the balance wheel at 8 o’clock vs. 5 o’clock on the Miyota. Furthermore, the Miyota has a non-function shock setting without a spring on the balance bridge, whereas the clone has a functional shock setting on the balance bridge.

Unfortunately, both the clone movement and the Miyota 9015 have a slow date change at midnight, whereas the genuine AP 3120 movement has an instant date change at midnight.

[1]

Clone AP 3120

Miyota 9015

The Miyota 9015 is a reliable workhorse movement, and older / lower end AP 15400 replicas used a decorated version of this movement. However, the clone 3120 movement is reliable and is a more authentic option over the Miyota if you’re looking for a genuine appearance through the transparent caseback.

[2]

Miyota 9015 decorated to look like an AP 3120

AP RO 15500
4302

The clone 4302 movement is new (as of summer 2022), but appears to be an excellent movement. The initial review by a watchsmith at RWI said that the movement is on par with the Noob Daytona 4130 movement (the 4130 Daytona movement is widely considered to be the best clone movement ever made, so this is VERY high praise). Like the genuine AP 4302 movement, the clone features an instant date change at midnight. The quality of this movement makes it the no-brainer choice for an AP 15500.

This movement is used in both the ZF and APSF version of the AP 15500, however, the ZF version has a spelling error in the engraving / printing on the back side of the movement (the word JEWELS is spelled JEWEES on the ZF version as of August 2022). This may be something that gets corrected soon, however, it’s worth checking during QC to ensure this error is not present.

[3]

Clone AP 4302

Miyota 9015

The Miyota is no longer a good choice for the AP 15500 due to the fact that it has a slow date change, and while it is reliable, it is now competing with an extremely high quality replica movement.

[4]

Miyota 9015 decorated to look like an AP 4302

Patek Philippe

There are only two clone movements available for Patek reps, the caliber 324 for the Nautilus 5711 and Aquanaut, and the 240 for the Nautilus 5712. All other Patek reps use a Miyota or another Asian movement.

Nautilus 5711 and Aquanaut 5167

Both the 5711 Nautilus and the 5167 Aquanaut share the same Patek Philippe caliber 324 movement. This movement has been cloned and is available in reps from 3K Factory (3KF). However, older Aquanauts use the Miyota. For the 5711 Nautilus there is a version of the Miyota that has been well decorated and rotated so that the balance wheel appears to be in the correct location compared to the gen 324 movement. However, all of these movements have a slow date change at midnight, whereas the genuine movement has an instant midnight date change.

324

The Clone 324 movement can be found in 3K Factory reps of the Nautilus and Aquanaut. This is a good movement, but doesn’t have a very large power reserve and requires a large amount of winding or rotor spinning (possibly due to non gen-spec gearing in the automatic module). The movement can be identified and differentiated against the rotated Miyota by the functional main train wheels visible above the balance wheel which are not present in the rotated Miyota.

[5]

3KF Clone 324 movement in an Aquanaut

[6]

3KF Clone 324 in a 5711 Nautilus

Miyota 9015

The Miyota 9015 is a common movement that has been discussed above, it is often found in lower end or older Patek reps. It is reliable, easy & cheap to service. It doesn’t have an instant date change at midnight. And it suffers from a loud rotor. This movement is easy to distinguish from the clone 324 because the balance bridge (cock) is anchored on the crown side which is reversed in the clone and gen movement. There are also noticeable differences in the screw and ball bearing assembly of the rotor at the center of the movement. This isn’t a bad movement if you don’t really care about an authentic look, However, given the open caseback on Patek watches, the clone or rotated Miyota are better options.

[7]

Miyota 9015 decorated to look like a PP 324

Rotated Miyota

PP Factory (PPF) has developed a rotated and well decorated Miyota variant that looks more similar to the gen movement than an undecorated Miyota, but is still noticeably a worse imitation than the 3KF clone 324 movement discussed above. This movement is easy to differentiate from the clone 324 movement due to the lack of main train wheels above the balance wheel. Also, the fake “jewels” where the main train wheels should be, are red and the rest of the functional jewels in the movement are purple. The rotated Miyota also doesn’t have its rotor running on ball bearings, whereas the clone and gen both do. The 3KF clone movement is a better option if you want a more gen-like rep.

[8]

Rotated Miyota 9015 decorated to look like a PP 324

Nautilus 5712

The 5712 is a Nautilus with a lot of complications. The gen model features a power reserve indicator, small seconds, date, and moon phase indicator. Furthermore, the genuine Patek 240 caliber features a micro-rotor to keep the movement incredibly thin. With all of this complication it is truly impressive that PP Factory (PPF) has managed to build a fully functional clone movement which has only minor cosmetic differences from the genuine Patek 240 caliber. The clone movement doesn’t appear to be available exclusively from PPF, as it has appeared in 5712 reps from GR Factory (GRF) as of summer 2022.

240

The clone 240 movement is an impressive feat of engineering. This is a thin movement with many complications. This movement is still very new (as of summer 2022), and as such, there is not yet a consensus as to its reliability, although an initial review by a watchsmith on RWI confirmed that the build quality was good, and there were no surprises.

[9]

Clone PP 240 movement

A23J Movement

There is an old version of the 5712 that comes with a decorated generic Asian 23 Jewel movement. This version is much thicker than the gen which makes rep 5712s with this movement 10.5mm thick vs. 8.4mm thick for reps using the clone. Also, this movement doesn't have a functional power reserve indicator. With the availability of the clone 240 movement, this is not a recommended option.

[10]

Miyota 9015 decorated to look like a PP 240

Richard Mille

Richard Mille watches are extremely complicated and use many exotic materials. So far there has only been one attempt at a clone movement for a Richard Mille: a clone movement for the RM 055 by BBR Factory of the RMUL2 movement. Previously all RM055’s used a decorated version of the Seiko NH05A movement.

RM055
RMUL2 Clone

The clone movement is impressive, but flawed and unreliable. This is a movement that should probably be avoided until there is an improvement to its reliability. The movement looks considerably closer to the gen RM movement than the NH05A movement which is used in other RM055 replicas. However, there are obvious flaws, for example the balance wheel shock setting jewel of the clone movement is purple, whereas the gen jewel is clear / white.

More worryingly, there have been many reports of this movement arriving dead after a watch was shipped from a TD to a customer. Additionally, the movement has significant stuttering of the second hand due to backlash between gears.

While this movement is an impressive feat of engineering, this movement is not currently recommended.

[11]

RM 55 clone RMUL2 movement

SEIKO NH05A

The NH05A movement is well decorated and dressed up to look like the gen RM055 movement, but it is obviously not genuine, and that fact is on display due to the open worked design of the RM055 case. This is a reliable movement. However, a gen RM055 is a roughly half million dollar watch, unless you own a Ferrari, nobody will need to look at the movement to know that your RM055 is a rep. If you like RM reps, buy them, wear them, enjoy them, and don't worry about how real or fake the movement looks.

[12]

Seiko NH05A movement decorated to look like an RM movement

Source

Guide to who Makes the Best Ladies Replica Watches

This guide was created to help guide those who are interested in Ladies watches. The factories listed are in order of best to not best, but for many of these there is only one factory making the particular model here.

Note: where it says “unknown factory”, it means a replica exists, but you’ll need to ask your TD with a picture of the watch you’re looking for. Some of these are from smaller factories, with smaller batches, and could be out of stock.

Rolex

  • Datejust 36mm: GMF, ARF, BPF

  • Datejust 31mm: GMF, GSF, WF, APS has the new 2022 dials, EWF

  • Datejust 28mm: GMF, BP, WF, CSF

  • Daydate 36mm: GMF, BP, EWF

  • Explorer 36mm: BP, EWF

  • Oyster Perpetual 36mm: EWF

  • Oyster Perpetual 34mm: ANF

  • Yachtmaster 34mm: BP Factory

  • Pearlmaster 34mm: K6 Factory

Patek Philippe

  • Nautilus 7118 35mm: 3KF (super rep), PF, MSF

  • Nautilus 7010 32mm: unknown factory

  • Aquanaut 37mm: ZF

  • Aquanaut 35mm: PPF

  • Twenty~4 25mm: AW Factory

Audemars Piguet

  • Royal Oak 67540 37mm: RXW (super-rep)

  • Royal Oak 15450 37mm: JF

  • Royal Oak 77350 34mm: BF (SS, YG, RG, Two Tone)

  • Royal Oak 67650: JF (potentially out of stock)

  • Royal Oak Frosted 33mm: OMF

  • Royal Oak 67601 33mm: RF

  • Royal Oak Offshore 26231 37mm Chronograph: RXW

Cartier

  • Ballon Bleu 33mm: AF (if available, comes in white, pink and diamond bezel), otherwise 3KF

  • Ballon Bleu 28mm: AF, 3KF

  • Cle De Cartier 31mm: DR Factory

  • Cheetah series (27 x 37mm): GF, K11 factory, BVF

  • Must de Cartier (round): unknown factory

  • Panthere de Cartier (small 22mm): BVF

  • Pasha: 3KF, BVF

  • Santos 36mm: 3KF, GF

  • Santos-Dumont (medium 38 x 27.5): F1 factory

  • Tank Americaine: GSF

  • Tank MUST de Cartier (medium 33.7 x 25mm): F1 factory (red, green, white and blue dials), White dial also with bracelet, K11F

  • Tank Must de Cartier (small 29.5 x 22mm): F1 factory with bracelet (with and without diamonds), K11 Factory, DR

  • Tank Solo (small & medium): AF

Van Cleef & Arpels

  • Sweet Alhambra 4-leaf clover: VCA Factory

  • Charms Collection (25mm, 32mm, & 38mm): BVF

  • Pont de Amoureux 38mm: 5GF

  • Poetic Complication: VCA Factory

  • Lady Feerie: 5GF

  • Lady Arpels Ballerine Enchantee: 5GF

Hermes

  • Heure H watch 26 & 30mm: BVF

  • Kelly 2: unknown factory

Vacheron Constantin

  • Ladies Overseas 33mm: RXW. Good date font, comes in polished or diamond bezel.

  • Heritage 31mm: TWF

Jaeger LeCoultre

  • Rendezvous Night & Day: ZF super rep, all variations. GF/GOF is another good factory

  • Rendezvous Moon: CCF

  • Rendezvous Tourbillon: RMS

  • Reverso One 20mm: IMF (could also be TWF?)

Chanel

  • J12 Electro Dream: TWF

  • J12 33mm: KOR, East Factory

  • J12 38mm: KOR, East Factory

  • Code Coco: unknown factory

  • Camelia watch, with moving cover (multiple variants): VAV Factory

  • Mademoiselle Prive: TTF

  • BOY FRIEND: BVF

  • Premiere Rock Pop 16mm: BVF

  • Ruban Bow Tie: VCA Factory

  • Ruban Bow Bracelet: VCA Factory

  • Premiere: BVF

Omega

  • Constellation 24mm : 8848F, GF

  • Constellation 27mm: 8848F

  • Constellation 29mm: TWS Factory

  • Deville 27mm: BVF

  • Aqua Terra Seamaster ladies 34mm: VSF, RWF

  • Ladymatic: V6F

Chopard

  • Happy Sport all sizes (30mm, 33mm, 36mm): BVF, YF, LT Factory

  • Happy Diamonds: TF

  • Imperiale: unknown factory

  • L’Heure Du Diamant Round: unknown

Breguet

  • Reine de Naples: ZF (super rep)

Bvlgari

  • Serpenti: BVF

  • Divas Dream: unknown

  • LVCEA: BVF

  • B.ZERO1: BVF

Dior

  • La D De Dior 25mm: unknown factory

  • LA D DE DIOR ROSE CÉLESTE: “original Single” Factory (原单厂)

  • Gem Dior 27mm: TWF multiple dials

Piaget

  • Limelight Stella: CCF

  • Limelight High Jewellery 31mm: unknown factory

  • Limelight Gala: unknown

Gucci

  • Bee watch with two tone bracelet: unknown factory

  • GRIP watch 38mm: unknown factory

  • G-Timeless Cat Head: “original Single” Factory (原单厂)

  • Vintage Quartz flip cover: “original Single” Factory (原单厂)

  • Diamantissima 22 & 27mm: “original Single” Factory (原单厂)

Louis Vuitton

  • Tambour Monogram 34mm: AF

  • Tambour Horizon Smart watch: unknown factory

Source. 

Guide to buying watches directly through Chinese sellers

Here is a long winded Q&A of what I've learned after purchasing about 20 watches on the cheap directly from Chinese sellers, bypassing DH and Ali. Don't be alarmed at the length of the tutorial, once you do it once it is pretty easy.

I'm just going to assume since you are reading this your native language is English. And as always do your own research, this is not financial advise.

  • How do I buy from China, I only speak English? Me too! Google translate is amazing. First thing you need is a buyer's website, I am using www.sugargoo.com. Super easy to register, and I use paypal for payment.
  • WTF is a sugargoo? I have no idea, but www.sugargoo.com is a website that will act as your personal shopper on China based websites. It looks like these websites sell to the people you are already buying from on DHgate and Aliexpress. Sugargoo is cutting out the middle man by buying for you direct.
  • I've registered on sugargoo, now what? You need to find that sweet automatic "roleplay" watch all the kids are wearing now a days. First try searching on a Chinese based website like www.1688.com. Don't even think about buying quartz either, people on this reddit will hunt you down and cut off a finger!
  • How do I search www.1688.com, I only speak English? This is probably the hardest part of the whole process. If using Chrome, it usually just translates to English and you can just type in what you want. YOU WILL GET WILD PRODUCTS IN THE RESULTS! Some NSFW, so be careful.
    • I found the best way to search is by downloading an image of the watch. Could be an image of the gen watch or just one you found on DH gate that is out of your price range. Just use the camera icon in the search bar and select the image.
    • Another trick is to use the Google box. Go to https://translate.google.com/ and type in what you want to translate to Chinese simplified. Try 'seamaster automatic watch' and it comes out 海马自动腕表
      • Take 海马自动腕表 and plug it into the 1688.com search bar, but make sure to switch back over to simplified Chinese translation first in Chrome. And Bam! You have a nice list of sweet Omega Seamasters to buy, but also some other weird watches pop in there too.
  • I found my dream Omega Seamaster but it's $160, I thought this was supposed to be cheaper??!! No silly goose, it's in Yuan. That's actually $25 (exchange rate is about 0.15)
  • Oh, cool that is cheaper. Now I can look like James Bond! No you cannot. James Bond wears a real Omega and is a rich athletic, super spy, that's slick with the ladies. YOU are buying "roleplay" watches, driving a 2009 Toyota, and can't do a single pullup.
  • All true, but I want to buy that sweet watch anyway. How? That is simple, just copy the first part of the web address of that watch from 1688.com and paste it into the sugargoo.com search engine. This is one I actually purchased, https://detail.1688.com/offer/687033449495.html.
  • Sugargoo says I have to add at least two watches to my cart, why? True, you are buying wholesale so most sellers require at least two watches. I typically find a seller that has various colors of a style I like and buy two. But I have been told on this Reddit, you can message the seller through Sugargoo first and ask to buy just one to check the quality. You can also add two to the cart and remove one before the final purchase. Then message the seller through Sugargoo after purchase. Only issue is, if the seller says no, the refund goes back as a credit on Sugargoo. Buyer beware. The message system is pretty quick and you can ask via the message button for any extras from the seller like watch boxes. Sugargoo is negotiating on your behalf.
  • Wow, shipping only takes 4 days. Sweet! Stop being obtuse, it only takes a few days for the seller to ship to Sugargoo. Not to you, who lives in a different hemisphere. Once Sugargoo gets your watches, they take purty pictures and post them for your enjoyment. You can then return those watches if you don't like the quality.
  • I love my Seamaster's from the pictures, how about shipping? There are a bunch of shipping options and time frames. Just click on the watches you want shipped and hit submit parcel. You can also research shipping cost under the 'estimate shipping' button. I typically wait until I have several watches to ship (Sugargoo holds your items for up to 100 days) and package them together. I just received package of 8 watches for $33 in shipping to the US. Beware, if you buy boxes to go with your watches the package will be too large for the cheaper shipping options. The cheap options have been very slow due to COVID (about 4 weeks). Here is a link to a discount code for redditers: https://www.reddit.com/r/Superbuy/comments/xd30hs/superbuy_long_term_discount_code_renew_again_add/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Pros: Very cheap alternative to DH and Ali.

Cons: Wacky search engine, required to buy more than one watch, no reviews or actual pictures from buyers attached to those reviews. Source

Guide to Watch Glass

There are various materials used for watches that are labelled as “glass”. For example, plastics, mineral glass, sapphire coated mineral glass and pure sapphire crystal.

Mineral glass

We have to distinguish between untreated and tempered mineral glass. The chemical name is silicon dioxide (SiO2). Rock crystal and smoky quartz are closely related to mineral glass. By adding different oxides, such as aluminium oxide or boric oxide, mineral glass can be refined. This leads to better scratch resistance and hardness. In general, mineral glass is harder than plastic, it is neither osmotic nor does yellowing occur.

Though scratches cannot be as easily removed through polishing and the material can break. In the worst case, it splinters and can damage the movement and injure the person wearing it.

Mineral glass coated with a thin layer of sapphire

To compensate for the disadvantage of mineral glass, many manufacturers use mineral glass with a thin laye of sapphire, as this is only marginally more expensive. Erroneous, they often claim to have a ´sapphire glass´, which leads to significant misinformation of customers. The quality differences are huge compared to a pure sapphire glass. Therefore, when you are looking for a watch, you should always keep an eye on the type of sapphire glass that is used.

Plastics

As indicated by the name, the material consists of a plastic named polymethyl methacrylate (short: PMMA). This plastic is better known by the names Perspex, acryl glass, or hesalite glass. The main advantages of these materials are: They are very lightweight, relatively impact-resistant, easy to polish and quite cheap. The major disadvantage, given by the low density, is the significant vulnerability for scratches. UV rays and time may lead to yellowing of the material. Moreover, due to its osmotic characteristics, it can also be slightly water-permeable.

Pure sapphire glass

Although sapphire glass is transparent, the name “glass” is misleading. Sapphire glass contains a crystalline structure which makes it highly scratch-resistant. After the moissanite and the diamond, it is the third-hardest transparent material on the planet. Sapphire glass is made out of a pure synthetic sapphire (monocrystalline) which is produced from melted aluminium oxide (Al2O3). The production creates huge crystals which are cultivated by the means of electrolysis. Subsequently, the crystals are divided into slices and the shape of the watch glass is later time-consumingly cut out of these slices.

Consequently, domed sapphire glass is the best watch glass in the world. It might only break if extreme forces are encountered and can only be scratched with a diamond or moissanite. If you encounter any scratches on your sapphire glass, they are probably caused by aluminium and can be easily removed with a rubber.

Guide to Watch Clasps and Buckles

A watch clasp is essentially the security system that binds the ends of a timepiece’s bracelet or strap together. Just like all the parts of a timepiece, the watch clasp is a significant element. It plays a huge role in terms of making sure the watch fits and is kept safely on our wrists. Without it, we would not be able to keep any watch secured around our wrists, and having one would be quite pointless.

Pin Buckle

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Pin Buckle of Hamilton Khaki Aviation Ref. H76645540

One of the most popular types of watch clasps is the pin buckle. We are sure you have encountered this type of traditional watch clasp in many timepieces. This watch clasp goes by several names, so you might be a little confused about what to properly call it. It is also sometimes known as the “tang buckle or the Ardillon buckle.” Regardless, these terms are interchangeable and essentially mean the same thing.

The pin buckle functions similarly to how waist belts are used. A buckle, made mostly from metals like stainless steel, titanium, or in some rare cases, platinum, rests on the shorter end of the strap. A pin, also known as the buckle tongue, is placed right in the centre of this buckle. While wearing the watch, the longer side of the strap, with various adjustment holes, passes through the pin buckle. The pin is then inserted into one of the adjustment holes, allowing it to accommodate wrists of any size. The strap is then secured by the free loops placed just below the pin buckle.

Folding Clasp

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Folding Clasp of Rado Captain Cook Ref. R32105313

Just like the pin buckle, the folding clasp is one of the most frequently employed types of watch clasps. This watch clasp variant is most often seen on metal bracelets. Depending on what type of material the bracelet is made from, the folding clasp usually follows its construction as well. As such, it can be made using stainless steel, titanium, platinum, or ceramic.

The folding clasp is typically composed of three components that simply lay over one another when being fastened onto the wrist. The clasp is then sealed shut in place by one or two protruding bolts, which are fitted into a designated lock. For instance, the image of the Rado Captain Cook Ref. R32105313 above shows off an unlocked folding clasp with its laid-out sections. You can also see the two push buttons that are used to release them.

The folding clasp is one of the most convenient types of watch clasps and it renders the watch very easy to both wear and remove at the same time. However, this can be a drawback at times because of how easy it is to unlock the folding clasp. You might find that the folding clasp is prone to unintentionally snapping open while the watch is being worn, especially if you are engaging in vigorous activities that jostle the clasp.

Deployant Clasp

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Deployant Clasp of Omega Seamaster Ref. 233.92.41.21.03.001

Compared to the previous entries, the deployant clasp is a slightly more complicated type of watch clasp that combines both the pin buckle and the folding clasp. This clasp is made up of a metal pin buckle on one end, one or two folding sections in the middle, and a spring bar on the other end. The spring bar is attached to the shorter side of the watch strap, while the metal pin buckle is inserted into the longer side of the strap, which has multiple adjustment holes.

Once you have selected the right adjustment hold that ensures a snug fit on your wrist, clip the metal pin buckle down. Like the folding clasp, the folding sections of the deployant clasp can be laid over one another and clicked into place. The longer side of the strap is then tucked into the free loops of the strap.

The deployant clasp is usually made from stainless steel and sold separately from the watch. It is quite rare to find a timepiece that comes with the deployant clasp. In fact, many watch wearers tend to dismantle the traditional pin buckles on their leather straps before installing deployant clasps as replacements. This is because deployant clasps are easier to wear and provide more security than the traditional pin buckle.

Safety Deployment Clasp

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Safety Deployment Clasp of Breitling Superocean Ref. A17367D71B1A1

For those seeking a watch that will not easily slip off of your wrist, the safety deployment clasp is probably one of the most secure types of watch clasps you can find. It operates just how a traditional folding clasp does, but with an added layer of protection. The safety deployment clasp has an additional flap that is sealed on top of the folding clasp, functioning as a reliable double lock mechanism.

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Cartier deployment clasp for leather strap.

For a dive watch like the Breitling Superocean Ref A17367D71B1A1, which has to withstand strong underwater currents, the extra flap of its safety deployment clasp serves as an improved safekeeping system. With this type of clasp, you will not have to worry about accidentally opening the lock of your watch’s folding clasp, even as you explore the cavernous ocean depths. In the unfortunate circumstance that you do accidentally jolt your folding clasp open, the flap provides an additional level of security that ensures your watch will not just fly off your wrist. 

Butterfly Clasp

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Butterfly Clasp of Cartier Santos de Cartier Ref. WSSA0009

The butterfly clasp, also known as the hidden folding clasp, is a wonderfully seamless and subtle design. This type of watch clasp consists of two folding metal hinges. When the butterfly clasp is locked, both of its components are hidden on the inside of the bracelet, so that its exterior is presented as a consistent, immaculate display.  

As demonstrated by the image of the Cartier Santos de Cartier Ref. WSSA0009 above, upon closing the butterfly clasp, its two foldable sections are kept hidden underneath the bracelet. Since the lock of the butterfly clasp is kept on the inside of the bracelet, pressed against your wrist, it is harder to jostle or accidentally open it. As a result, the butterfly clasp tends to be safer and more secure than a regular folding clasp.

One downside, however, is that this design might feel a little uncomfortable on your wrist, especially if you are wearing the watch for long periods of time.

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Butterfly Clasp of Cartier Santos de Cartier Ref. WSSA0037

By simultaneously pressing the two push buttons of the clasp in the middle, you can unlock the clasp. This results in the butterfly clasp spreading its two uniform, foldable sections out in a symmetrical manner, resembling the wings of a butterfly, hence the catchy name of the clasp.

Sliding Buckle Clasp

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Sliding Buckle Clasp of Seiko 5 Sports Ref. SRPD69K1

The sliding buckle clasp gives its wearers an especially hassle-free way of putting on a watch. The buckle of this clasp usually lies in the middle of the longer side of the strap. You can adjust the buckle at any time by simply sliding it along the bracelet. Attached to the other end of the bracelet is the metal clasp, which clamps down onto the sliding buckle and securely locks it in place.

When wearing a watch with the sliding buckle clasp, all you have to do is press the clasp down onto the buckle until it clicks shut. If you find that it does not fit quite right, simply slide the buckle either up or down the bracelet, until you have found the proper length that best suits your wrist size. This type of watch clasp can be seen on watches with stainless steel mesh bracelets, such as the Seiko 5 Sports Ref. SRPD69K1.

Diver Clasp

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Diver Clasp of Citizen Promaster Ref. NY0125-83E

The diver clasp, more commonly known as the diver extension, is a type of clasp designed solely for professional dive watches. The composition of the diver clasp is actually quite similar to that of the folding clasp. The only difference is that the diver clasp has an additional built-in adjustment tool located underneath it. This adjustment feature can be operated to allow for either a tighter or looser fit. This allows for easy, efficient adjustment of the bracelet’s length. This is especially useful for divers who have to wear diving suits while underwater.

An example of a watch with the diver clasp would be the Citizen Promaster Ref. NY0125-83E. In order to utilise the adjustment tool of this watch’s clasp, simply press the two push buttons on the clasp, and then slide it in a forward or backward motion to change the length of the bracelet to your desired size. The diver clasp is locked in place by tooth-like notches, which serve as a reliable security feature that keeps the bracelet safely around your wrist.

Glidelock Clasp

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Glidelock Clasp of Rolex Submariner Ref. 116610LN

In every sense of the word, the Glidelock clasp is essentially the same thing as a diver clasp and serves the same function. The primary difference is that the Glidelock clasp is patented by Rolex and operates in a slightly different way. As a result, the Glidelock clasp is found exclusively in Rolex dive watches, such as the Rolex Submariners and the Rolex Sea-Dwellers.

For instance, take a look at the Glidelock clasp on the Rolex Submariner Ref. 116610LN, pictured above. From the image, you can see that this Rolex watch’s Glidelock clasp has a couple of adjustment notches situated in the middle of the clasp. The fit of this bracelet is altered by snapping out the removable side of the clasp and then pushing it forward for a tighter fit or backwards for a looser one. The clasp is then secured in place by the adjustment notches in the centre. Once you have found the desired bracelet length, all you have to do is snap the clasp close in the same spot where you opened it.

Jewellery Clasp

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Jewellery Clasp of Gucci Horsebit Ref. YA139507

The jewellery clasp is seen quite frequently in watches that cater solely to women. As can be seen from the Gucci Horsebit Ref. YA139507 above, the jewellery clasp is made up of two components: the latch and the hole. In a nutshell, the latch on one end of the bracelet goes through the hole on the other end of the bracelet. The latch is folded over the latter, clicks into place, and snaps shut with its own built-in locking mechanism.

The jewellery clasp tends to be very slim and demure, exuding elegance and femininity. This is why it is often used in timepieces for women. However, one big disadvantage of the jewellery clasp is that it only comes with one hole that can be latched onto. As a result, it is absolutely impossible to adjust the bracelet lengths of watches with jewellery clasps. This can pose some difficulty when it comes to finding fashionable women’s watches with suitable sizes for your wrist.

Velcro

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Velcro Strap of Omega Speedmaster Ref. 311.30.42.30.01.005

Velcro is not necessarily considered a traditional watch clasp, but in the context of helping to fasten a watch’s strap in place, it sure functions as one.

Velcro works in a simple hook-and-loop manner. One long end of the textile or nylon strap is attached to tiny hook fasteners, while the other end is embedded with loop fasteners. When these two surfaces are pressed against each other, they cling to each other, in turn achieving a firm and secure fit around the wrist. One advantage of having a Velcro enclosure is that it is highly adjustable and can fit all types of wrist sizes.

How a 2836 GMT Movement is Made

The only GMT movement that ETA produce is the 2893. Enterprising folks in far off countries have modified 2836 movements for quite some time with a homebrew GMT complication added to the movement.

You can also do a more complicated swap by taking the balance wheel, pallet fork and escape wheel and replacing them on the 2836 movement to gain a low beat movement.

Here you can see the original 2836 movement on the left. I have removed and replaced the following components with the original swiss parts on the 2846. These are parts that are modified by the chinese factories to allow the GMT function.

Part 2595 - Date Jumper Maintaining plate - This part has been modified slightly to allow for the modified Intermediate Date Wheel

Part 2543 - Intermediate date wheel - This has a small secondary gearing placed atop the original gear. This turns the GMT wheel during the normal cycle of time. It meshes with a gear on the underside of the GMT wheel.

Part 242 - Canon Pinion with Driver - Taller canon pinion to account for the additional GMT wheel.

Part 255 - Hour Wheel - as above, taller to allow for new GMT wheel.

Part 2567 - Day Corrector - originally the part to allow quick setting of the day disc. Replaced with a new bi-directional gear that allows quick setting of the GMT hand.

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Seen below is the GMT wheel itself. The upper gearing meshes with the gear running where the day corrector normally would and the gearing on the underside runs off the intermediate date wheel. And finally as installed on the finished movement with the brass washer in place.

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Genuine Rolex Watch Weight Guide

Gen Rolex Watches Weight Guide

Note:

Weight differences may apply for various reasons.

This article is not meant to be a definite weight list for Rolex watches.

The weights mentioned below are with a full-linked bracelet.

In some cases, the weights stated may or may not be full-linked.

Weight of Submariner 114060: 152.9 grams. 2 links removed.

Weight of Submariner 16618: 175 grams.

Weight of Submariner 5513: 119 grams.

Weight of Datejust 1601: 83 grams.

Weight of Datejust 116201: 145 grams.

Weight of Datejust 116233: 136.8 grams.

Weight of Datejust 41 126334 Oyster bracelet: 143 grams.

Weight of Day-Date 118206: 225 grams.

Weight of Day-Date 118209: 179 grams.

Weight of Deepsea Sea-Dweller 116660: 215 grams.

Weight of Sea-Dweller 16600: 147 grams.

Weight of Sea-Dweller 126600: 194 grams.

Weight of Daytona 116509: 200 grams.

Weight of Daytona 16528: 156 grams.

Weight of Daytona 116520: 140 grams.

Weight of Rolex Daytona 116500: 141 grams.

Weight of GMT-Master II 16718: 164 grams.

Weight of GMT-Master II 116710LN: 152 grams.

Weight of GMT-Master II 16713: 138 grams.

Weight of GMT-Master II 16710: 127 grams.

Weight of Rolex GMT-Master II 126710BLNR/BLRO: 140.04 grams.

Weight of Milgauss 116400: 150 grams.

Weight of Milgauss 116400: 150 grams.

Weight of Yacht-Master 16622: 146 grams.

Weight of Explorer II 16570: 126 grams.

Weight of Explorer II 1655: 118 grams.

Weight of Explorer 214270: 132 grams (one link removed).

Weight of Explorer II 216570: 156 grams.

Weight of Sky-Dweller 326933: 191.5 grams.

Weight of Sky-Dweller 326934: 174.6 grams.

Known Replica Watch Clasp/Bracelet/SEL Codes

78360 - GMT/Datejust - Non SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with clasp:

T10 - EBay Italian bracelet - Endlinks stamped 558B

93150 - Submariner - Non SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with fliplock clasp:

D12 - Raffles - stamped 62523H 18 - Bracelet stamped 70216 - Endlinks stamped 455b

MA11 - Yuki - stamped 93250 - Bracelet stamped 93250 - Endlinks stamped 448b.

Z10? - JKF/Cartel - stamped 76753? - Bracelet stamped 93150 - Endlinks stamped 580.

S9 - EBay Italian bracelet- Endlinks stamped 501B

93250 - Submariner - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with fliplock clasp:

EO6 - JF - stamped 93250 - SEL engraved EO 93250.

EO6 - TC V1 - stamped 93250 - SEL engraved EO 93250.

DE6 - TC V2/WM9 - stamped 93250 - SEL engraved EO 93250.

PJ4 - TC V5 - stamped 93250 - No engraving to SEL.

PJ4 - TC V6 - stamped 93250 - ??

PJ4 - TC V7 - stamped 93250 - No

DE6 - BP - stamped 93250.

CL1 - Sean - stamped 93250 - ??

CL1 - TW Best - stamped 93250 - SEL engraved AD 93288. (Being sold by Detroit Watch Works as genuine. Although their SEL engravings show AD 93250. See here: https://forum.replica-watch.info/thr...-works.405198/)

CL10 - ARF - stamped 93253 - SEL engraved EO 93250 - *904L

93160 - Sea-Dweller - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with fliplock clasp:

OP10 - BP - stamped 93160A - SEL engraved EO 93160A

EO10 - TC - stamped 93160A - SEL engraved EO 93160A

93253 - Submariner - SEL Bi-Metal Oyster bracelet with fliplock clasp:

CL1 - MBW - stamped 93250 - Bracelet stamped 93250.

OP3 - WM9 - stamped 93253 - Bracelet not stamped - SEL engraved 93253 (Wrapped)

OP10 - BP - stamped 93160A - Bracelet not stamped.

?? - Sean - stamped 93150 - Bracelet stamped 93250 - SEL engraved CL 93250 & 16613. (Wrapped)

97200 - Submariner - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Glidelock Clasp:

PJ3 - NOOB V1 2014/BP/REGMARINER - SEL engraved ??

2VU - NOOB V2 to V5 - SEL engraved RS 97200

1FY - NOOB V6S - SEL engraved G3Z 97200

ST9 - NOOB V7 - SEL engraved 80K 97200

ST9 - NOOB V7 - SEL engraved RS 97200

ST9 - NOOB V8 - SEL engraved RS 97200

ST9 - NOOB V9 - SEL engraved 80K 97200 - *904L

ST9 - NOOB V10 - SEL engraved G3Z 97200 - *904L

T1G - NOOB V10 - SEL engraved G3Z 97200 - *904L

1NQ - Noob V12 - SEL engraved RS 97200

ST9 - NAIL - SEL engraved 6YZ 97203 - *904L

ST9 - VRF - SEL engraved RS 97200 -

J9K - VRF MAX - SEL engraved ?? 97200 - *904L

ST9 - BP - SEL engraved RS 97200

PJ3 - BP - SEL engraved ??

6YZ - BP V2/GM Factory - SEL engraved ??

Y8C - ARF V1 - SEL engraved 590 97200

E5N - ARF V1 & V2 & V4 - SEL engraved 5VM 97200 - *904L

X7F - LF - SEL engraved 5WD 97200

PJ3 - JF V1 - SEL engraved ??

PJ3 - REGMARINER - SEL engraved ??

X0P - JF V2 - SEL engraved 590

ST9 - DJF - SEL engraved ?? - *904L

0HA - DJF - SEL engraved T4J 97200- *904L

6YZ - GMF - SEL engraved 6YZ 97203 - *904L

M7J - EXF - SEL engraved ??

7KY - ORF - SEL engraved ?? - *904L

C4R - ZZF V2 - SEL engraved P5M 97200 - *904L

C4R - ZZF V2S - SEL engraved RS 97200 - *904L

7QJ - RXF/XF - SEL engraved T2A 97200 - *904L

AOW - JDF - SEL Engraved AOW

7JG - VSF - SEL Engraved T2A 97200

8MY - ZF - SEL engraved H8A

1LD - Clean - SEL Engraved Z1R

97JB00 - Submariner 41 - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Glidelock Clasp:

1LQ - VSF - SEL Engraved 8XM 97JB00

H7Z - VSF - SEL Engraved 8XM 97JB00

H7Z - VVSF - SEL Engraved 7JG 97JA03

1LD - Clean - SEL Engraved T2A 97JB00

H2C - Green Maker - SEL Engraved 1LO 97JB00

U1N - EWF - SEL Engraved 3MK 97JB00

97220 - SD43 - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Fliplock Clasp:

453 - VRF - SEL engraved H4Y 97220

4RL - ARF - SEL engraved C4R 97220

4RL - ARF V3 - SEL engraved C4R 97220 - *904

C4R - Noob - SEL engraved ??

C4R - NOOB V2 - SEL engraved 0NW 97220 - *904

453 - GMF - SEL engraved H4Y 97220 - *904

98210 - DSSD - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Fliplock Clasp:

T4J - BP V2 - SEL engraved ??

Z6Y - ARF V2 - SEL engraved D2Y 98210 - *904

98220 - DSSD - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Fliplock Clasp:

T1U - ARF - SEL engraved 8UF 98220 - *904

78200 - GMT - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster polished centre links with Fliplock Clasp:

OP8 - Noob V2 - engraved 15/423 - SEL engraved OP 78200

5NF - Noob V7 - SEL engraved ??

5NF - Noob V8 - SEL engraved ??

71H - Noob CHS - SEL engraved ??

Y8C - JF v2 - SEL engraved ??

PJ1 - BP - SEL engraved ??

0HA - DJF - SEL engraved 6GF78200 - *904

T1G - Noob V9 - SEL engraved 6GF 78200 - *904

T1G - Noob V10 - SEL engraved ?? 78200 - *904

6MW - VRF 3186 Clone - SEL engraved 89K 97200 - *904

P3L - ARF 3186 clone - SEL engraved P3L 78200 - *904

5XZ - GMF - SEL engraved ?? 78200 - *904

69200 - GMT - SEL Stainless Steel Jubilee Fliplock Clasp:

6LX - DJF - SEL engraved A3W 62611 - *904

6MW - GMF - SEL engraved K8P 69200 - *904

6MW- BP - SEL engraved K8P 69200

6MW- Noob - SEL engraved K8P 69200 - *904

6MW- Noob - SEL engraved 1LD 69200 - *904

6MW - VRF - SEL engraved 1LD 69200 - *904

97203 - Submariner - SEL Bi-Metal Oyster with Glidelock Clasp:

Y8C - JF - SEL engraved 469 97203

6YZ - VRF - SEL engraved ??

2VU - Noob - SEL engraved PJ 97203 (Wrapped)

6YZ - BP- SEL engraved ?? (Wrapped)

78590 - Daytona - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster with Fliplock Clasp:

7CD - ARF - SEL engraved 9US 78590 - *904

5NF - Noob - SEL engraved ??

X0P - JF 7750 - SEL engraved ??

Y8C - JF v1- SEL engraved ??

X0P - JF - SEL engraved ??

7GT - BP v2 - SEL engraved ??

Y8C - JF v2 - SEL engraved E0 78493

OP8 - Phong - Clasp engraved 15/423 - SEL engraved AS 78490

Z1H - Noob 4130 clone - SEL engraved ??

T1G - Noob 4130 V2 - SEL engraved Z6S 78590 - *904

5NF - JH - SEL engraved C1Z 78590

7CD - GMF - SEL engraved ?? - *904

63600 - Datejust - SEL Stainless Steel Super Jubilee bracelet:

COC - ARF - SEL engraved 931 63600

CL5 - BP - Clasp engraved 72200 - SEL engraved ??

72600 - Datejust - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with Oysterclasp:

7UM - ARF - SEL engraved UOP 72600A

3NY - BP - SEL engraved ??

70400 - Oyster Perpetual - SEL Stainless Steel Oyster bracelet with Oysterclasp:

7UM - JF - SEL engraved 7GT 70400


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